Once saved, always saved is a myth.

[GeneZ]

Yes!
Numbers 23:19

19 God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it?
Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?

Here is the God of the entire universe, and then some arrogant speck of duct called man thinks he can undo what God did and wanted done?

 

[BlessedPeace]

Here is the deal....it is not my first rodeo.

People as whole do not know Koiné Greek...it takes a lot and then when you throw in the Christian Greek it makes it more difficult....the big picture of the Bible is the anchor for understand the scriptures. Because most of the New Testament was written in a Pagan language....this language did not have word definitions that fit Christian expressions. So they would chose the closest word to what they were trying to say and sometimes would have to change the context of the word. The Greeks did not have the same morals that Christians had...LOL....So words pertaining to morals were not in their language or culture. A simple example is the Greek word for sin....this word had no moral implication in the Greek or its culture....it simply meant you missed the target. The writers of the New Testament changed the context of that word to mean wrong doing or a transgression against God.....Christian Greek.

You mentioned “tense” LOL it is not a point in a debate. The tense in Koiné Greek is not entirely agreed upon by linguists.

The other thing is like I said, This is not my first rodeo.

It is the intent of the word game. The Jehovah's Witnesses do this all the time. It usually starts out like, All the translations are wrong! It is kind of like in advertising...."the secret ingredient!" LOL Then they play on people's lack of knowledge to change the meaning of things to suite their beliefs. And even if they are right on a few things it generally fails the understanding of the "big picture" in the New Testament, not to mention the early Christian writings after the biblical era and the centuries of Ecumenical Councils.

No matter how you cut it OSAS is a relatively new beliefs that fits in well with New Age beliefs and the leftist beliefs. But it is not a biblical belief nor a historical belief.

I'll only say this. I think you are choking on a gnat here so to argue a null point.

Sure, "OSAS" ,the acronym for , Once Saved Always Saved, is new. As is the phrase behind it, "Once Saved Always Saved".

But, both the acronym and phrase are derived from the whole Gospel. A synopsis, that reiterates the fact God's free permanent gift of Salvation is God's gift. Not humans reward for good work.


Numbers 23:19 God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?

 

[GeneZ]

Here is the deal....it is not my first rodeo.

People as whole do not know Koiné Greek...it takes a lot and then when you throw in the Christian Greek it makes it more difficult....the big picture of the Bible is the anchor for understand the scriptures. Because most of the New Testament was written in a Pagan language....this language did not have word definitions that fit Christian expressions. So they would chose the closest word to what they were trying to say and sometimes would have to change the context of the word. The Greeks did not have the same morals that Christians had...LOL....So words pertaining to morals were not in their language or culture. A simple example is the Greek word for sin....this word had no moral implication in the Greek or its culture....it simply meant you missed the target. The writers of the New Testament changed the context of that word to mean wrong doing or a transgression against God.....Christian Greek.

You mentioned “tense” LOL it is not a point in a debate. The tense in Koiné Greek is not entirely agreed upon by linguists.

The other thing is like I said, This is not my first rodeo.

It is the intent of the word game. The Jehovah's Witnesses do this all the time. It usually starts out like, All the translations are wrong! It is kind of like in advertising...."the secret ingredient!" LOL Then they play on people's lack of knowledge to change the meaning of things to suite their beliefs. And even if they are right on a few things it generally fails the understanding of the "big picture" in the New Testament, not to mention the early Christian writings after the biblical era and the centuries of Ecumenical Councils.

No matter how you cut it OSAS is a relatively new belief that fits in well with New Age beliefs and the leftist beliefs. But it is not a biblical belief nor a historical belief.

Nice to have met you. Let's keep it that way...

see ya around..... !

 

[Grailhunter]

I'll only say this. I think you are choking on a gnat here so to argue a null point.

Sure, "OSAS" ,the acronym for , Once Saved Always Saved, is new. As is the phrase behind it, "Once Saved Always Saved".

But, both the acronym and phrase are derived from the whole Gospel. A synopsis, that reiterates the fact God's free permanent gift of Salvation is God's gift. Not humans reward for good work.


Numbers 23:19 God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?

Well we are using the acronym but it was not the teaching of Christ or the Apostles or the early Christian writings or a topic in the centuries of Ecumenical Councils....not biblical and not historical. Calvinism is the first thing you can point to and that is the 16th century and that man was nutz!

 

[MatthewG]

Its clear people can walk away from faith.

Its a day to day choice to stay faithful to God.

While people can pride themselves in being saved; it seems some can fail to realize even those who may confess that they are saved may not be truely saved.

Remember when jesus talks about, the pharisee who prayed to God saying Im not likese murderers or tax collecters?

Remember those who kncoked on the door, Lord , Lord let us in, and he said begone I never knew you.

Be weary. Be encouraged to read your bible and ve rooted in christ, not rooted in pride.

Work out your own salvation with fear and tremebling as it says.

 

[Grailhunter]

Its clear people can walk away from faith.

Its a day to day choice to stay faithful to God.

While people can pride themselves in being saved; it seems some can fail to realize even those who may confess that they are saved may not be truely saved.

Remember when jesus talks about, the pharisee who prayed to God saying Im not likese murderers or tax collecters?

Remember those who kncoked on the door, Lord , Lord let us in, and he said begone I never knew you.

Be weary. Be encouraged to read your bible and ve rooted in christ, not rooted in pride.

Work out your own salvation with fear and tremebling as it says.

Right....

You know people on this forum ask from time to time....How can I tell if I am really saved?
After I get passed the disinformation that salvation has nothing to do with you.
I say....You decide to believe in Christ as God and Savior and then Acts 2:38
All this changes you....if you are saved....if you are not changed, you are not saved.
Christianity is not like a club you sign up for and go on about your business as you were.

 

[MatthewG]

Right....

You know people on this forum ask from time to time....How can I tell if I am really saved?
After I get passed the disinformation that salvation has nothing to do with you.
I say....You decide to believe in Christ as God and Savior and then Acts 2:38
All this changes you....if you are saved....if you are not changed, you are not saved.
Christianity is not like a club you sign up for and go on about your business as you were.

Some people wonder if I am even saved by my stranges beliefs.

What is it to them?

I believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ and my dark hard heart was changed to a more lighter soft one.

Even while praying to God i tell him i hate doing good things for people…

Thats how a relationship works, being honest with God… thats where it should start in my opinion; and love and encourage your brother or sister along the way ( by the spirit ), as i just said before my flesh hates.


Its Jesus through me that does any good at all; i deserve no credit.

 

[MatthewG]

Yet people wanna be noticed and get some type of credit for being nice to others… which is just an ego stroke in reality,..

James has a great lesson written out,

“Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members? You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and war. Yet you do not have because you do not ask. You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures. Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, “The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously”? But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: “God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble.” Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up. Do not speak evil of one another, brethren. He who speaks evil of a brother and judges his brother, speaks evil of the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is one Lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy. Who are you to judge another? Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to such and such a city, spend a year there, buy and sell, and make a profit”; whereas you do not know what will happen tomorrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapor that appears for a little time and then vanishes away. Instead you ought to say, “If the Lord wills, we shall live and do this or that.” But now you boast in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil. Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin.”
‭‭James‬ ‭4‬:‭1‬-‭17‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

James 4:1-17 Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members? You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and | New King James Version (NKJV) | Do

Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members? You lust and do not have. You ...

bible.com

 

[MatthewG]

Some people wonder if I am even saved by my stranges beliefs.

What is it to them?

I believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ and my dark hard heart was changed to a more lighter soft one.

Even while praying to God i tell him i hate doing good things for people…

Thats how a relationship works, being honest with God… thats where it should start in my opinion; and love and encourage your brother or sister along the way ( by the spirit ), as i just said before my flesh hates.


Its Jesus through me that does any good at all; i deserve no credit.

Right there with Paul when he says,

I don’t really understand myself, for I want to do what is right, but I don’t do it. Instead, I do what I hate. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.

Its however Christ in me as the fulfiller of the Law that does the good, which comes from the Father, through people who believe and abide in Christ.

“Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning. Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1‬:‭17‬-‭18‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

James 1:17-18 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning. Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of | New King James Version (NKJV) | D

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning. Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of

bible.com

All praise be to God and the Lord Jesus.

I have a choice to make though remain in my flesh or to walk by faith, and walk in step with the spirit abiding in Him.

““I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15‬:‭5‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

John 15:5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. | New King James Version (NKJV) | Download The Bible App Now

“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.

bible.com

Learn them bibles well, and dont get caught up in all the other written books by others, stay in the main one that can help you feed and supply your faith by and through the eternal living bread and eternal living water which comes from Christ Jesus….

Dont let people fool you, and dont fool yourself.


Im not saying its not okay to read books by others just dont replace them with Jesus.

All the best,
Matthew

 

[Taken]

No one says that people are saved and then unsaved.

Scripture does NOT say “people” are saved then “unsaved”.
Scripture reveals the Lord’s Business is saving “SOULS” and quickening “SPIRITS”…
NOT saving the FLESH of “PEOPLE”.

All FLESH shall DIE.
A SOUL the Lord God SAVES, IS SAVED ONCE and KEPT SAVED FOREVER, BY the Power Of God.
A SPIRIT the Lord God QUICKENS, IS QUICKENED ONCE and KEPT QUICKENED FOREVER, BY the Power of God.

But a whole lot of scriptures warn Christians about how they can go to Hell.

Of course. The Consequence:
OF NOT BECOMING “MADE” soul saved;
OF NOT BECOMING “MADE” spirit quickened;
IS…FOREVER “Separation” FROM God.

God OFFERS A “way” for “any” man to BE WITH HIM Forever.
Any man can ACCEPT His OFFER, or REJECT His OFFER.
(Accepting His Offer, REQUIRES the man to ACCEPT Gods Offer ACCORDING TO GODS WILL…ie Gods Terms.

If not....Heaven would be full of evil.

The idea or belief that you can believe in Christ and sin all you want and still go to Heaven is absurd and evil in itself.

What is absurd, is the FALSE TEACHING of WHAT “SIN” IS.

Behaviors between and among men are PRECEPTS.
A man lying to a man, cheating a man, stealing from a man IS behaviors between and among men. Those are TRESPASSES between and among men….NOT SINS.
Men have the ability and authority to FORGIVE other men of TRESPASSES committed AGAINST Them.

A man lying to God, cheating God, stealing from God IS that mans behavior between him and God. THOSE are that man committing SIN AGAINST GOD.
ONLY the Lord God has the ability and authority to FORGIVE SIN (which IS a Negative Committed Act AGAINST God.)

The sort of thing that the Devil would promote as a religious belief.

The sort of thing that can cause people to go to Hell.

Study the Scriptures…
Only God Forgives SIN.
Mans SIN Against God IS Disbelief IN God and the One He Sent.

Does Scripture ALSO TEACH a mans Disbelief IN a man IS a SIN? No.

Does Scripture TEACH you MEN Sin against you, and you have the authority to FORGIVE SIN? If so, where?

Men going about TEACHING, and ACCUSING that men SIN Against men, and men have the power to FORGIVE SIN, is the influence and works of the Devil and Wicked men.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[CadyandZoe]

Once saved, always saved is a myth.

Dont fight about it but explain why or why not?

I don’t believe it is viable because of Jesus parable of the sower. Also when Jesus explains you most abide in him. Also when Jesus talks about those who say lord lord let us in.

It is just a myth that is a lie; as much as people going to hell today is, and that Satan is out to get you still, praise God for the victory of Jesus Christ!

The idea of OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) is not a myth, although some of the stories surrounding it may be. For instance, there is a story about a young woman who attended church on a Sunday when a visiting evangelist preached a powerful sermon about Jesus, hell, sin, forgiveness, and redemption. The evangelist asked everyone to close their eyes and bow their heads and then began playing music. He then asked anyone who wanted to give their heart to Jesus to raise their hand. The young woman raised her hand, and the minister acknowledged it. After a few minutes, the meeting concluded with a reminder for everyone who raised their hand to fill out an attendance card. According to this story (which may or may not be true), the young woman was "saved" at that moment.

This story suggests a conversion experience but mistakenly assumes that salvation is solely achieved through a one-time confession of faith. It should be noted that this belief is often linked with the doctrine of OSAS, even though the Biblical doctrine of Eternal Security is not solely based on a one-time confession of faith.

The doctrine of Eternal Security is true and we can discuss this if you like Matthew.

 

[Wrangler]

The reborn apostles all warned the church to CONTINUE IN JESUS CHRIST to the end .

INDUCTIVE LOGIC. You only warn people not to do what they are capable of doing.

It means one can discontinue in Christ.

Which means OSAS is false.

 

[Wrangler]

Scripture does NOT say “people” are saved then “unsaved”.

It’s implied in Scripture in many ways. Jesus says we are the salt but salt that has lost its flavor is discarded.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Thats why, once saved always saved is just a myth.

You have to choose every day...

Whether or not you are gonna thank God.

God doesn't make you guys think about him. (Sure God calls out to everyone; but you have to choose.)

You choose to think about him, and incorporate him into your life.


I am naturally a selfish, greedy, human being. Im glad I can be honest about it now, it is really freeing.

I understand and agree with your insight and perspective concerning our walk. If you think of it as a daily decision, I get you. Even so, I also agree with @marks and @APAK concerning assurance. Knowing that I am actually and forever saved is both comforting and true. I think you and they are both sharing great insight and truth.

 

[CadyandZoe]

INDUCTIVE LOGIC. You only warn people not to do what they are capable of doing.

It means one can discontinue in Christ.

Which means OSAS is false.

In my view, OSAS properly understood is true. The stories and narratives often attached to the doctrine are certainly false. I agree, some who began in Christ can discontinue in Christ. The doctrine of OSAS, properly understood, explains why some don't fall away.

 

[Wrangler]

In my view, OSAS properly understood is true. The stories and narratives often attached to the doctrine are certainly false. I agree, some who began in Christ can discontinue in Christ. The doctrine of OSAS, properly understood, explains why some don't fall away.

This is most illogical. The ‘’A” in OSAS does not stand for “some.”

OSAS has a built in Ex post facto fallacy. Those who do fall away were never ‘really’ saved to begin with. Such a rationalization makes the hypothesis have no rejection criteria.

It’s like the old invisible pink elephant hypothesis that defies objective evidence. Yet, adherents claim the invisible pink elephant IS in the room nonetheless.

What won’t you believe?

 

[CadyandZoe]

This is most illogical. The ‘’A” in OSAS does not stand for “some.”

OSAS has a built in Ex post facto fallacy. Those who do fall away were never ‘really’ saved to begin with. Such a rationalization makes the hypothesis have no rejection criteria.

I would like to discuss the concept of Eternal Security, as taught in the Bible. Regarding the issue you raised about ex post facto, it is not a problem for my perspective since salvation occurs only during the 7th Trump. The crucial point of consideration is whether individuals will reach that event. According to the Bible, we can have certainty about our salvation and whether we are among those whom God is saving.

The entire OSAS debate begins with a false assumption on both sides, that salvation happens the minute a person makes a public confession of faith, which isn't true at all.

What won’t you believe?

It's a long list. :)

 

[amigo de christo]

INDUCTIVE LOGIC. You only warn people not to do what they are capable of doing.

It means one can discontinue in Christ.

Which means OSAS is false.

While its true you cannot see me , YOU LOOKING at one WHO has never once taught OSAS .
just a friendly reminder my friend .

 

[Wrangler]

I would like to discuss the concept of Eternal Security, as taught in the Bible.

Understood. The separation point is for those who stay in Christ from those who turn away from Christ. I don't think anyone is challenging eternal security WHEN one stays in Christ.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Understood. The separation point is for those who stay in Christ from those who turn away from Christ. I don't think anyone is challenging eternal security WHEN one stays in Christ.

I also believe that God's elect will persevere in the faith.