Once saved, always saved is a myth.

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BlessedPeace

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What name calling? Other than that calling it as it is? Truth is the new hate speech.
Christianity has always known that salvation is eternal....because Heaven is eternal.
But no scripture says evil will abide in Heaven.....Evil goes to Hell.
Chrisitanity is a religion of strict morals....that is a fact.
The fact that Christians can sin their way Hell and all of the warning thereof are throughout the New Testament.
This is absolutely and new belief and I dare say wacko.


View attachment 35902
I see you don't know what "OSAS" actually is.

Christians do not believe they can sin their way to Heaven.
Conversely, they also know they cannot sin their way out of Christs born again redemptive powers that gave them an eternal saved life.
Those who are in Christ do not wilfully sin. If they do so, they are not in Christ and Christ has never known them.

Therefore, the argument against OSAS, that it is a license to sin, is contrary to scripture. And is a lie that by its very nature is averse to Christ's sacrifice and actual message. That is the same old hate speech.

OSAS proponents do not say Christians who hold to the acronym that encapsulates the actual full gospel can sin with impunity.

Their opponents do.
That is the truth. And the same old hate speech the enemy has fostered even before the cross. Because the enemy knew his time was short.

Nothing makes Jesus look like a fraud like the enemy insisting his people can be in heaven after serving him all their lives,sinning, as Christians.
It serves to make Christianity appear as a lie.

We know that is not the gospel. Yet, the argument that conflates the sinners OSAS slander with the gospel, makes the gospel appear unable to keep anyone from sin.

The sinners OSAS has nothing to do with the gospel. And everything to do with Satanism.
 
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Grailhunter

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I see you don't know what "OSAS" actually is.
You so funny! LOL It is clear you do not understand what OSAS is about.

Christians do not believe they can sin their way to Heaven.
Conversely, they also know they cannot sin their way out of Christs born again redemptive powers that gave them an eternal saved life.
Christ and Apostles and the Christians that lived before they came up with this would disagree with you.
For the rest of what you said....sounds like double....talking out the side of your mouth....talking in circles.
Read the Bible....read and heed.
 

BlessedPeace

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You so funny! LOL It is clear you do not understand what OSAS is about.


Christ and Apostles and the Christians that lived before they came up with this would disagree with you.
For the rest of what you said....sounds like double....talking out the side of your mouth....talking in circles.
Read the Bible....read and heed.
Just as I thought.
Thank you.
 

Grailhunter

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Just as I thought.
Thank you.
Just because I am in a humous mood and I like a good Joke.

Are you saying your version of OSAS is the belief that you can do anything and go to Heaven....just because you believe in Christ?
 

marks

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The OSAS theology did not exist between that time and the 260 years period before the Ecumenical Councils.
The permanance of a real rebirth permeates through the NT. I think the failure of some to see this is a failure to understand what it means to be born again.

Much love!
 

BlessedPeace

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The permanance of a real rebirth permeates through the NT. I think the failure of some to see this is a failure to understand what it means to be born again.

Much love!
I agree with you. I think that failure is why the truth of God's eternal salvation through grace is incomprehensible.
 
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Grailhunter

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I agree with you. I think that failure is why the truth of God's eternal salvation through grace is incomprehensible.
That it because it is a fantasy.....

But like I said I do have a sense of humor.....The new beliefs have an entertainment value.....if nothing else a good laugh! Especially the ones that are formulated on the premise that if it makes no sense....that is what makes it of God.
 

Taken

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Once saved, always saved is a myth.​

OP ^

Salvation is Offered …
Some SHALL BE Saved
Some ARE Saved

If that be a “myth”….to some.
Some by that believe are deducing God is A LIAR.

Not one Scripture says men ARE Saved and THEN by any means Become UNSAVED.

The SAVED ARE Saved ONCE and FOREVER.

God does NOT Lie.
Glory to God,
Taken
 
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Grailhunter

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Once saved, always saved is a myth.​

OP ^

Salvation is Offered …
Some SHALL BE Saved
Some ARE Saved

If that be a “myth”….to some.
Some by that believe are deducing God is A LIAR.

Not one Scripture says men ARE Saved and THEN by any means Become UNSAVED.

The SAVED ARE Saved ONCE and FOREVER.

God does NOT Lie.
Glory to God,
Taken
No one says that people are saved and then unsaved.

But a whole lot of scriptures warn Christians about how they can go to Hell.

If not....Heaven would be full of evil.

The idea or belief that you can believe in Christ and sin all you want and still go to Heaven is absurd and evil in itself. The sort of thing that the Devil would promote as a religious belief.

The sort of thing that can cause people to go to Hell.
 

Grailhunter

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Who finds the OSAS belief attractive or true? Like the Jehovah’s Witnesses they are in constant battle with the scriptures, even denying large portions of the Bible. Sola Scriptura out the window. It would be easier for them to write their own Bible like the Jehovah’s Witnesses did.

But what is the motivation…it is not all Satan….Are there people out there that are afraid they will go to Hell for what they do? Are there people out there that are afraid their children will go to Hell because of their lifestyles or whatever? I imagine there are a few reasons, but whatever their reasons you can be sure that Satan is very happy and supportive of their choice.

Satan has his own pulpit…Yes sin! sin! sin! Fill the world full of sin! Christ died for your sins, right?! Take all the drugs you want, give them to children so you can have sex with them! Murder people! Murder babies! Rape women! Molest Children! Lie and steal! Your sins are paid for and Christ is going to reward you with Heaven as long as you believe in Him. Satan has his own religion.

Years ago the Mafia was religious and went to church, probably more that most people do. So they certainly believed in one form or another of OSAS.

But still I wonder how do they get there….Is it a concern regarding the security of salvation? And in these debates the truth can be over looked. Salvation is secure. Why would God come up with a plan that was not secure? A plan that His Son was going to die for if it was not secure?

Salvation….if you are sincere….salvation is secure…seat in Heaven with your name on it. When you get down to it Christianity is one of the most simplest of religions….salvation is simple. That is why Christ could state the bottom line in two commandments…Love God and love one another.

When thinking of the complexity of salvation keep in mind what the level of understanding that the early Christians understood….Acts 2:38?...no Bibles ….just word of mouth. They had a very basic understanding about salvation and Christianity….and still tens of thousands believed and were saved.

But still it is an absolute truth that what you do matters in regard to your salvation….Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling Philippians 2:12 And For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. 2nd Corinthians 5:10

That does not mean you have to be perfect, even though perfection is the goal….aim small miss small. Sincerely love God and sincerely love one another. Sincerely trying to be good and do good for others. And on occasion we will fail. The concept that God planed a system of salvation for the perfect is an oxymoron. If so, Christ would have been crucified for nothing.

Can we sin our way to Hell? Yes, but you have to work at it. Some of us are better at being good than others but the plan is made for both. Yahweh warned us from the very beginning… If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it Genesis 4:6-7 and For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. 2nd Corinthians 5:10

If not, you can sin to a point that sin engulfs you and you are toast. But again you have to work for it and this type of sin is mostly lifestyle sins…. homosexuality, a doctor that murder babies in a building designed for murdering babies, homosexuality, living your life stoned…things such as that…but that is working for sin and means you are not sincere about Christianity so again if you are sincere salvation is secure.
 
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MatthewG

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The best choice in my opinion is to die to sin, and become alive to God. And walk by faith, not by sight, and be in step with the spirit.

Apparently though God will resurrect all people and each judged properly and given their reward.

God will not be mocked. Those who reap to the flesh reap destruction (spiritual body condemned) outside the kingdom, while those who reap to the spirit (age-during life - spiritual body fit for the kingdom.)

Thats my belief @Grailhunter.
 
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GeneZ

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Once saved, always saved is a myth.

Dont fight about it but explain why or why not?

I don’t believe it is viable because of Jesus parable of the sower. Also when Jesus explains you most abide in him. Also when Jesus talks about those who say lord lord let us in.

It is just a myth that is a lie; as much as people going to hell today is, and that Satan is out to get you still, praise God for the victory of Jesus Christ!

If it was not once saved, always saved? No one while on earth could ever say they are saved.

No one would be able to say they were saved until after they died and found themselves in Heaven.

Yet, we see Paul telling believers that they have been saved... And, that they are saved.



If we could lose our salvation? Paul would have no right to say Ephesians 2:8-9, until after they had died and went to heaven.

Paul said the following...


"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves,
it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."
Ephesians 2:8-9

If we could lose our salvation? Paul would have been forced to say something different.
Something more like this...



"For it is by grace you might someday find yourself saved ......

grace and peace .....................
 

Grailhunter

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If it was not once saved, always saved? No one while on earth could ever say they are saved.

No one would be able to say they were saved until after they died and found themselves in Heaven.

Yet, we see Paul telling believers that they have been saved... And, that they are saved.




If we could lose our salvation? Paul would have no right to say Ephesians 2:8-9, until after they had died and went to heaven.

Paul said the following...


"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves,
it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."
Ephesians 2:8-9

If we could lose our salvation? Paul would have been forced to say something different.
Something more like this...



"For it is by grace you might someday find yourself saved ......

grace and peace .....................
I wonder what kind of Bible you guys read?
I know that there is not an OSAS Bible with most of the scriptures lined out....
So it has to be a religion of denial.....of scriptures....and a belief that Christ was somewhere between a liar and a chump and Paul must of got it completely wrong.

Believe it or not....if you look these scripture are in there.......And you are not going to find scriptures about God rewarding immorality with Heaven.

2nd Corinthians :5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Matthew 18:9 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God”

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Matthew 5:29-30 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.

Matthew 13:50 And throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mt:12:36: But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

2Pt:2:9: The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Jude 1:7 Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Hebrews 6:4-8
4: For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5: And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6: If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7: For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Hebrews 10: 26-31
26: For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27: But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28: He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30: For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31: It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

2nd Peter 2:4-22
4: For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment 5: And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6: And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; 7: And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 8: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds 9: The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: 10: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. 11: Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. 12: But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 13: And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; 14: Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: 15: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16: But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet. 17: These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. 18: For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19: While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20: For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21: For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22: But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

1st John 3:8
the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.1Tm:5:20: Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
 
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GeneZ

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I wonder what kind of Bible you guys read?
I know that there is not an OSAS Bible with most of the scriptures lined out....
So it has to be a religion of denial.....of scriptures....and a belief that Christ was somewhere between a liar and a chump and Paul must of got it completely wrong.

Believe it or not....if you look these scripture are in there.......And you are not going to find scriptures about God rewarding immorality with Heaven.

2nd Corinthians :5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Matthew 18:9 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God”

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Matthew 5:29-30 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.

Matthew 13:50 And throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mt:12:36: But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

2Pt:2:9: The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Jude 1:7 Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Hebrews 6:4-8
4: For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5: And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6: If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7: For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Hebrews 10: 26-31
26: For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27: But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28: He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30: For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31: It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

2nd Peter 2:4-22
4: For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment 5: And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6: And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; 7: And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 8: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds 9: The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: 10: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. 11: Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. 12: But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 13: And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; 14: Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: 15: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16: But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet. 17: These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. 18: For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19: While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20: For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21: For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22: But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

1st John 3:8
the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.1Tm:5:20: Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
There would be no argument if your pastor knew Greek.
It would end silly arguments that mainstream translations leave us hanging with.


The Greek tenses themselves state that we have been saved in a point in time, with a result that we remain saved forever.


1. God gives us eternal life at salvation (Ro 6:23; He 5:8, 9; 9:12).

Jn 6:47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.
Jn 10:27-28 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

2. Greek tenses

Acts 16:31 – “shall be saved” is aorist tense (at one point in time, not at many points).

Eph 2:8,9 – “are you saved” is perfect tense [perfect tense in the Greek, meaning that it happened
at one point in the past with the results going on from that point – we are eternally saved at the point of salvation.

Jude 1 – “preserved in Christ Jesus” is in the perfect tense again.

Its why God had almost all of the NT written in Koine Greek!
Most translations do not do us justice in that regard.


If interested I can recommend an excellent pastor for such teachings from the Greek and Hebrew text.
He offers recorded Bible lessons free of charge.

All those problem passages can be addressed, but if one must be willing sit and study to learn sufficient doctrine.
It takes time. Not some quick answer in this format.

grace and peace .....................


 

Grailhunter

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There would be no argument if your pastor knew Greek.
LOL Don't need one I am well educated in the Greek language, culture, and history. Lifetime of formal education in 5 countries and a $40,000 dollar Library…..Next!

It would end silly arguments that mainstream translations leave us hanging with.
Why mess with translations when today you can work with scriptures in their own language.

For the rest...the word games do work because of the overall big picture.

God the Father and God the Son are both intolerant to sin.
No evidence that either one would reward sin. The concept of universalism where all sins are forgiven is not the theme of the New Testament....
The New Testament is full of warnings regarding the ramifications of sins....even when I give you the scriptures you cannot read them.....LOL
Christianity is a religion of morals not immorality.
Heaven will not be full of evil.
 

BlessedPeace

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If it was not once saved, always saved? No one while on earth could ever say they are saved.

No one would be able to say they were saved until after they died and found themselves in Heaven.

Yet, we see Paul telling believers that they have been saved... And, that they are saved.




If we could lose our salvation? Paul would have no right to say Ephesians 2:8-9, until after they had died and went to heaven.

Paul said the following...


"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves,
it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."
Ephesians 2:8-9

If we could lose our salvation? Paul would have been forced to say something different.
Something more like this...



"For it is by grace you might someday find yourself saved ......

grace and peace .....................
Very good.
Didn't Apostle Paul tell us salvation is God's permanent gift? Nothing we do, but God grants the gift so we can't feel prideful that we saved ourselves through our own actions.
I don't know how we can think God's gifts are not permanent.When he said it is so.



Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.


Romans 5:15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.




John 4:10 Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”
 

GeneZ

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LOL Don't need one I am well educated in the Greek language, culture, and history. Lifetime of formal education in 5 countries and a $40,000 dollar Library…..Next!
You mean with all your education and brilliant mind? You disagree with the simple Greek examples I supplied? Is that what your saying?

This pastor I spoke of? He was invited to lecture at MIT by Christian students, and also taught other at universities.
Not to mention. He was recommended to me by a retired professor associated with Harvard, who later taught ancient languages at the Bible college I attended.
I did not want to "boast" at first because its not the humble thing to do. But, since you are so qualified? Now I told you.
 
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GeneZ

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Very good.
Didn't Apostle Paul tell us salvation is God's permanent gift? Nothing we do, but God grants the gift so we can't feel prideful that we saved ourselves through our own actions.
I don't know how we can think God's gifts are not permanent.When he said it is so.



Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.


Romans 5:15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.




John 4:10 Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”
Read post #94? The answer is "yes."
 

Grailhunter

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You mean with all your education and brilliant mind? You disagree with the simple Greek examples I supplied? Is that what your saying?

This pastor I spoke of? He was invited to lecture at MIT by Christian students, and also taught other at universities.
Not to mention. He was recommended to me by a retired professor associated with Harvard, who later taught ancient languages at the Bible college I attended.
I did not want to "boast" at first because its not the humble thing to do. But, since you are so qualified? Now I told you.
Here is the deal....it is not my first rodeo.

People as whole do not know Koiné Greek...it takes a lot and then when you throw in the Christian Greek it makes it more difficult....the big picture of the Bible is the anchor for understand the scriptures. Because most of the New Testament was written in a Pagan language....this language did not have word definitions that fit Christian expressions. So they would chose the closest word to what they were trying to say and sometimes would have to change the context of the word. The Greeks did not have the same morals that Christians had...LOL....So words pertaining to morals were not in their language or culture. A simple example is the Greek word for sin....this word had no moral implication in the Greek or its culture....it simply meant you missed the target. The writers of the New Testament changed the context of that word to mean wrong doing or a transgression against God.....Christian Greek.

You mentioned “tense” LOL it is not a point in a debate. The tense in Koiné Greek is not entirely agreed upon by linguists.

The other thing is like I said, This is not my first rodeo.

It is the intent of the word game. The Jehovah's Witnesses do this all the time. It usually starts out like, All the translations are wrong! It is kind of like in advertising...."the secret ingredient!" LOL Then they play on people's lack of knowledge to change the meaning of things to suite their beliefs. And even if they are right on a few things it generally fails the understanding of the "big picture" in the New Testament, not to mention the early Christian writings after the biblical era and the centuries of Ecumenical Councils.

No matter how you cut it OSAS is a relatively new belief that fits in well with New Age beliefs and the leftist beliefs. But it is not a biblical belief nor a historical belief.
 
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