Once saved, always saved is a myth.

[MatthewG]

Thats the problem, most Christians are in name only or to grasp status or power and yet remain in the hold of sin, much like one believer that Peter chastised..

Acts 8:9-24
9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:

10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.

11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.

12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

24 Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.

That is what I am trying to speak against. People who are leaders in church who say "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED" lets worship and sing songs, and have light show, and some coffee and feel good about ourselves.

That stuff is a lie! A lie from the human ways of living - just believe and that is all you gotta do...

Well, Jesus spoke against that, Paul also spoke against that type of lifestyle - @marks - you seem to be missing this part because you don't understand why I am saying these things...

You can be a christian and remain in christ to the very day you die - that is all good and great wonderful but people out there can be misguided, and not taught what is truth and that is the problem. You can be fine in the world you live but however to not notice these things, or simply disregard them is immature.

 

[marks]

I hate is people who lie

Got it. And you've expressed that I'm one of those liars.

Personally I find telling the born again that they may yet still come under condemnation to be devastating to their faith if they believe you. Nothing like telling someone to whom God has promised life that they might be lost anyway. And then that person finds themself trying to make sure that doesn't happen, and voila! You've just helped form a legalist, who will be trying to save themselves, which is a work of flesh.

Taking a spiritual born again Christian, and convincing them they have to maintain their "saved" state, flipping them back into walking according to flesh. Bravo!

Romans 7 . . . "the motions of sin in the flesh, which were by the Law . . ."

You asked if I am a "Scholar". Maybe I realize what was behind that question. Do you mean, do I know my Bible? Well, quite a bit of it, and if you want to discuss these places that teach us specifically about salvation and faith and rebirth, yeah, I know it pretty good.

That's neither here nor their, whatever I think, the words of Scripture are God's Words. It's just more convenient to know where these passages are, as to know what they say.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Well, Jesus spoke against that, Paul also spoke against that type of lifestyle - @marks - you seem to be missing this part because you don't understand why I am saying these things...

If you are saying that someone who is truly saved, born again, may yet be lost, I will continue to oppose that, being fully false, and devastating to people's faith.

If some one is "once saved", they are "always saved".

If you mean, someone who never was saved to begin with, that's not "once saved". So maybe you can clear this up.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

@marks, I am done talk about it with you.

You always tend to just subjugate in what you believe is right and needed to be said and not let other people be able to express their selves, and that is okay, you do whatever you gotta do.


You can have the last words if you need that; I don't care.

All the best, love you but after so much you just gotta learn to walk away.

May God by the spirit guide, love you brother.

 

[MatthewG]

If anyone else would like to comment on this subject please feel free to.


It still remains that Once saved, always saved is a lie.

1. Do not believe what preachers, or teachers teach on this subject! You need to investigate your bible for yourself!

Be encouraged to get in that bible, and learn about God and learn about Christ - and if you start believing and having faith, perhaps your life will change by the spirit - and may you follow and walk in faith and in step by the spirit rather than your flesh as you pick up your cross, die to yourself, and become buried with Christ, and raised again with Christ.

 

[marks]

“Once saved, always saved” is a poorly-thought theological concept. If a born-again Christian can’t fall from grace, is it because being renewed in mind and soul happens so extensively that a believer cannot possibly do or think the wrong thing? That would mean free will doesn’t exist. If, at a later time due to a hurtful event, a born-again Christian does have free will but uses it to give into darkness but can’t possibly fall from grace (since grace is infinite and unchanging), that implies that being a Christian essentially gives all believers a pass to do evil. Again, it’s poor theology.

Christians are still accountable for their sins even after they get born-again. Our faith doesn’t turn us into mindless zealots who are immune from impure thoughts or actions in the slightest. Nor is our faith an excuse to do harm to others and still think we’re saved. Remember this: Satan was once an angel in heaven, but he fell from grace because of his pride and was cast into hell. The same thing can happen to any believer if he takes God’s grace for granted and gives into darkness.

Being born again is like being changed from a fish to a bird. The fish can leap into the air, but it can't stay there, can't live there, its a fish. A bird can dive into the water, but it can't live there, being a bird.

If someone comes and changes a fish into a bird, that fish did not change itself, and it can't unchange itself. So it is with those who are born again.

We've been changed from fleshy Adamic men, to spiritual Christian men. From Adam's humanity to Christ's humanity.

Much love!

 

[marks]

not let other people be able to express their selves,

Anyone can express what they want. You've expressed what you've wanted. I'm a liar for quoting the Bible, and I call Jesus a liar because I believe Him?

I am done talk about it with you.

That's probibly best.

so much you just gotta learn to walk away.

I've quoted a few passages of Scripture. I may post some more. And anyone is free to comment all they like, just you are, just as I am.

And if you call me a liar for posting and believing the Bible, I may respond again to that.

You've responded not at all to the Bible quotes, only faulting me for posting them. This doesn't catch your attention?

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

Marks, please don't quote me anymore on this thread if you do not mind. Thank you, if you love me you will leave me alone when I ask you too - leave me alone if you do not mind to do that, unless you feel the need that you need to continue to harp and badger. Everyone by their nature is a liar... Let every man be a liar, and let God be true. Of course you are gonna continue to 'fight' tooth and nail with me on what you believe but I don't frankly care, and you should respect that by the spirit of Christ in you, if the spirit of Christ indeed dwells in you. Leave me alone, and don't quote me anymore on this thread. Otherwise I will just put you back on ignore.

 

[marks]

Marks, please don't quote me anymore on this thread if you do not mind.

I won't after this.

Just the same, I challenge you to not overturn one part of Scripture based on what you think of another part. When your ideas are contradicted by the Bible, don't just ask to not have to hear it anymore, but take a look, and learn from the whole of Scripture.

I've posted a number of passages which deny what you assert. Not me, the Bible.

Accept it, ignore it, up to you.

I do love you, and that's why I've shared these things.

 

[MatthewG]

There is a reason to why Once Saved, Always Saved is a myth.

While people can believe on Jesus - they may not remain in his teachings or even know what his teachings are.

That is why it is so important for people to be encouraged to read and stay in the bible, learn and grow!

If you are someone who has already done that great! Go and teach the bible, to other people. There are so many people who have neglected reading that great book with tons of great and wonderful information with-in it.

People on the pulpit and those who are teachers who just saying "believe and that is it" or "Confess with your mouth and that is all you gotta do", are not listening to the Lord Jesus, and what HE said.

John 8:31-32
31 Jesus then said to those Jews who believed in him,* “If you remain in my word, you will truly be my disciples, 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Remain in his word, that is the truth - learn and grow of his teachings - which has to lead to Love, 1 Corinthians 13 agape love, by the spirit like Paul writes about all through his letters, and James, and all the letters so good to read. There is a historical narrative to follow just as well, but there are so many ways to build oneself on the spiritual lessons of the chief cornerstone.

It's amazing that God and the Lord Jesus Christ has conquered over all things "Sin, death, Satan, his angels, the false prophet, the beast, and the wrath of God was poured out on the nation of Jerusalem in 70AD" - today people pick and choose to live by the tree of life or by the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

If you are looking for a good place to learn some great lessons, www.cult.love has great information to be found there. Thank you and God bless and may you find encouragement to read that bible cause no one is gonna read it for you while you are on your down time, unless you go and show up at a church... but even they can tell you things that could perhaps just be plain wrong. Christian Ultra Libertarians for Truth is an online school portal.

 

[amigo de christo]

Sorry amigo, people who are born again; that is great. However, they can leave the faith if they want to.

God doesn't mystically make you stay in the faith.

That is a lie... you must choose "this day whom you will serve."

Try reading what i said . I said they all warned we must continue in Christ .
JESUS himself warned his own ye must continue in me and any man that dont is cast out .
I always say CHOOSE YE THIS DAY whom ye will serve . Read it again mathew . read it again .

 

[MatthewG]

@amigo de christo; sorry, i was wrong.

 

[Saint of Light]

Being born again is like being changed from a fish to a bird. The fish can leap into the air, but it can't stay there, can't live there, its a fish. A bird can dive into the water, but it can't live there, being a bird.

If someone comes and changes a fish into a bird, that fish did not change itself, and it can't unchange itself. So it is with those who are born again.

We've been changed from fleshy Adamic men, to spiritual Christian men. From Adam's humanity to Christ's humanity.

Much love!

Thank you for the input, but I disagree. Consider: Was Satan not once in heaven? He was considered one of God’s highest angels before his fall from grace. Samael (the Devil’s former name) became too prideful and started a rebellion in heaven. He wanted to take God’s job for himself. Ultimately he lost that war and was subsequently cast into hell where he became the chief demon.

Satan was once saved and later fell from grace. Same happened to all the former angels who teamed up with him in the rebellion. Why then can the same thing not happen to us during our earthly lives?

 

[BlessedPeace]

Once saved, always saved is a myth.

Dont fight about it but explain why or why not?

I don’t believe it is viable because of Jesus parable of the sower. Also when Jesus explains you most abide in him. Also when Jesus talks about those who say lord lord let us in.

It is just a myth that is a lie; as much as people going to hell today is, and that Satan is out to get you still, praise God for the victory of Jesus Christ!

OK.


You said it yourself. You don't believe Salvation is eternal.

 

[MatthewG]

BlessedPeace,

you remind me of Paul when he wrote

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

 

[amigo de christo]

BlessedPeace,

you remind me of Paul when he wrote

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

Reread that again . now i am gonna highlight one word . Read this sentence and pay close heed to that one word .
BELIEVES . have a blessed day now folks .

 

[Grailhunter]

It is debates like this that it is helpful to be a Christian historian or even a historian in general.

Now a days you have people that say that Christ was not divine or the real Son of Yahweh. Some say there is no eternal fiery Hell. Some do not believe in Judgment Day.

Some believe that we are all robots in a play were everything down to snowflakes are predestined by God. Some believe that Christ was a alien and a UFO pilot. And here you have the OSAS belief.

They all have one thing in common these beliefs are relatively new. They did not exist in the biblical era. Christ and the Apostles preached and warned Christians on how many ways a Christian could find themselves in Hell. It permeates the New Testament. Warning after warning.

The OSAS theology did not exist between that time and the 260 years period before the Ecumenical Councils. The early writings of Christians did not mention Once Saved Always Saved. And again warned of how many ways Christians could find themselves in Hell. The discussions of those Christians that denounced their faith during the persecutions proved they believed Christians could go to Hell.

OSAS was not discussed during the Ecumenical Councils….several of them for centuries.

St Augustine had a lot crazy ideas but OSAS was not one of them and in fact would describe the type of tortures Christians that were judged to Hell would be subjected to.

The insanity of John Calvin brought the whole robot theology on. But the OSAS theology in its most distinct form is relatively new…..and sadly it came about in the later part of the Protestant era. Not a popular belief among Protestants and I have never seen a church designated as such. So most of this occurs during the “New Age” of wacko theologies with no historical backing. It is a sign of the times, the implication being that anything goes and Grace is a license to sin.

 

[BlessedPeace]

It is debates like this that it is helpful to be a Christian historian or even a historian in general.

Now a days you have people that say that Christ was not divine or the real Son of Yahweh. Some say there is no eternal fiery Hell. Some do not believe in Judgment Day.

Some believe that that we are all robots in a play were everything down to snowflakes are predestined by God. Some believe that Christ was a alien and a UFO pilot. And here you have the OSAS belief.

They all have one thing in common these beliefs are relatively new. They did not exist in the biblical era. Christ and the Apostles preached and warned Christians on how many ways a Christian could find themselves in Hell. It permeates the New Testament. Warning after warning.

The OSAS theology did not exist between that time and the 260 years period before the Ecumenical Councils. The early writings of Christians did not mention Once Saved Always Saved. And again warned of how many ways Christians could find themselves in Hell. The discussions of those Christians that denounced their faith during the persecutions proved they believed Christians could go to Hell.

OSAS was not discussed during the Ecumenical Councils….several of them for centuries.

St Augustine had a lot crazy ideas but OSAS was not one of them and in fact would describe the type of tortures Christians that were judged to Hell would be subjected to.

The insanity of John Calvin brought the whole robot theology on. But the OSAS theology in its most distinct form is relatively new…..and sadly it came about in the later part of the Protestant era. Not a popular belief among Protestants and I have never seen a church designated as such. So most of this occurs during the “New Age” of wacko theologies with no historical backing. It is a sign of the times, the implication being that anything goes and Grace is a license to sin.

I don't think name calling is an example of higher education.

The OSAS acronym is relatively new. Because it encapsulates the whole of the gospel message.

Ecumenical councils were aware salvation in Christ is eternal. Because that is what Jesus taught.

 

[Grailhunter]

I don't think name calling is an example of higher education.

The OSAS acronym is relatively new. Because it encapsulates the whole of the gospel message.

Ecumenical councils were aware salvation in Christ is eternal. Because that is what Jesus taught.

What name calling? Other than that calling it as it is? Truth is the new hate speech.
Christianity has always known that salvation is eternal....because Heaven is eternal.
But no scripture says evil will abide in Heaven.....Evil goes to Hell.
Chrisitanity is a religion of strict morals....that is a fact.
The fact that Christians can sin their way Hell and all of the warning thereof are throughout the New Testament.
This is absolutely and new belief and I dare say wacko.

 

[marks]

Why then can the same thing not happen to us during our earthly lives?

The Holy Spirit lives in us, and our life comes from Him. This has happened as a result of our being reconciled to God, not by our own behavior or something about us, but through the death of Jesus Christ. By Him, and Him alone, we are reconciled to God. Jesus Christ, the Same yesterday, today, and forever . . . Who ever lives to make intercession for us.

His life is our life, and His life does not end. He is our intercessor, and His intercession does not end. Therefore our eternal life, knowing Him, will not end. We did not gain our salvation through good works, we do not lose it through bad works. He's promised to chasten us as needed. He is our lifeline and our safety net.

As Peter wrote, we are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation. That is to say that the faith inside us, that guards us to remain in Christ is the power of God Himself working within us.

Much love!