Once saved, always saved is a myth.

[Taken]

I cited YOUR words as unscriptural.

Why are you using guile to cast a negative light on me?

It was your own implication, that you required a Scripture verse saying your words, and no one could provide you with that….and thus why you do not believe, ONCE the Lord Saves a soul, that soul is saved for ever.

If you feel that is a negative reflection on you, it was your claim that I addressed.

 

[MatthewG]

What happens is that when an idea that goes contrary to a what a person believes they tend to get riled up, and justify their stance in all kinds of ways.

People who are believers, from the heart, and seek out Yahavah and they desire to go by his ways, that is great. That doesn't mean that person can never fall into a bit of doubt, or even consider other things rather than the things of Yahavah in turn being choked out by other things and ways which are not of the LORD. Those who are indebted and desire to continue their relationship with Yahavah, could say I am saved, and I ll never doubt the promises of God, and therefore I am saved forever. While in theory that predication seems logical, it's also deceiving in the fact, that you have to make the choice every single day to bring God into ones life... while today is today, do not harden your hearts...

Some people can become hardened, even if they are faithful and they can depart and turn from the living God, with an unbelieving heart. Why do people desire to ignore some scriptures, for some vain traditionally taught pseudo claim "You can never lose your relationship with Yahavah," You can terminate that relationship by your own choice, and YAhavah will be a God of love and allow you to go that way. That is why there are warnings against falling away, and not become unbeliving.

While some may believe and never become unbelieving again - that doesn't mean other people are not subject to not becoming unbelieving again just because you do not see yourself losing faith, endure to the end and you will be saved... right? That is not once saved always saved, that is just believing and being saved to the kingdom, in hopes of getting to be with Yahavah one day. It's an on going choice daily, to choose and bring YAhavah into ones life.

To be like well I am never going to lose faith, and I m telling you I am saved and always saved - is a bunch VAIN BS... and inconsiderate of others and what they are trying to share and show. That is not love... in fact that is self preservation, to some degree selfish.

I have willing contemplated in my own mind, distancing myself from YAhavah and the Son of God, over a three minute period of thought, but perhaps my experience is not real, or perhaps I was never a Christian just because I had the thought some may say.

Overall when it comes down to the subject title, once saved always saved, people being lied to in and through churches and maligned by churches that have, excuse my language "f" them over, is sad, cause some people do end up leaving the faith, and not every church you go to is accurate with truth some hide the truth away in order to just make you "feel" good. It's not true. It's a daily choice to put Yahavah in your life, from your heart, and he sees that and knows that, and those who do not desire him, he sees that and knows that and continues to call out to them even so.

 

[MatthewG]

There are people who suggest

People who become walking away from the living God.

“These people were never saved” and they pretty much do not matter and are null and void. Cause they stopped believing, therefore who cares?

The biggest thing is, how in the hell do you know that they were or not? They made a personal choice to leave Yahavah. And Yahavah allows people to leave… he also allows them to come back if they perhaps change their mind.

The LORD GOD reads the heart. We can not read people’s hearts…

 

[Wrangler]

You are proposing Spiritual things needs be held to the scrutiny of LOGIC….??

All things need to be held to the scrutiny of logic. Logic is merely the art of the non-contradictory identification of truth. This is why mystics hate logic and claim some things aren’t subject to logic.

This is true in talking about things that are false.

Jesus spoke of things that are true - and therefore, logical. This is why what he says appeal to truth seekers. When he said what parent would give his child a snake when they asked for a fish it appeals to us logically, given love is our motive for us and our own.

 

[Taken]

All things need to be held to the scrutiny of logic. Logic is merely the art of the non-contradictory identification of truth. This is why mystics hate logic and claim some things aren’t subject to logic.

This is true in talking about things that are false.

Jesus spoke of things that are true - and therefore, logical. This is why what he says appeal to truth seekers. When he said what parent would give his child a snake when they asked for a fish it appeals to us logically, given love is our motive for us and our own.

Bottom line…
Logic is how the carnal mind concludes it’s beliefs…and not a big surprise the Minds Belief changes OFTEN.

You can continue to rely on your Carnal Mind regarding Spiritual things….but that IS NOT what Scripture teaches.

Rom 8;
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Rom 10:
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

 

[MatthewG]

Bottom line…
Logic is how the carnal mind concludes it’s beliefs…and not a big surprise the Minds Belief changes OFTEN.

You can continue to rely on your Carnal Mind regarding Spiritual things….but that IS NOT what Scripture teaches.

Rom 8;
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Rom 10:
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

It teachs to continue to hold on to faith until the day of death. That is my encouragement to all people is to continue to pray and seek after the LORD GOD, and not to become unbelieving. Do you not think people have a choice in the matter, or is it more the lines of the LORD GOD picking and choosing people, such as blessedpeace suggests?

You yourself base your reason off of logic of the scriptures... you share where "The holy spirit will be with you forever," Yeah well that is true as long as you continue to believe and have active faith, right? Or is that wrong to say, Taken? A dead faith is not going to produce anything.

People who walked around with Jesus followed him, though they had not the holy spirit yet, they still followed Christ, but when hearing things which were harder to hear they walked away from him. Even Saints had the ability to fall away, I do not see how you can justify a stance in saying "its impossible."

Other than circling reasons (For some going as far as) such as "those people are trash and garbage they never were saved to begin with to hell with'em. They dont matter, it's me that matters more than them."

 

[MatthewG]

Also @Taken it seems that you are the only one who continues to advocate that once saved always saved is a real thing. That is fine, I respect that and love you regardless of the stand itself. It doesn't make you anymore loved by God, that you believe it to be true, and I believe it to be untrue. There are two others who continue to suggest that once saved always saved is false. If that is not a witness to you, then not sure what it is you need to get it through to your own heart.

It's just you yourself defending what you believe is true and that is fine if you believe it is true, but why do you also decide to go ahead and just off write other scriptures mentioned in the bible, is that because they do not fit in with what you believe, or that they are not needed, or that they are untrue compared to what Jesus has spoken out about? Would not the Apostles end up expanding more truths, after they recieved the holy spirit? Or is it Sola scriptura, that says this is the bible it says what it says and there is not changing it but with light of other scriptures??? IT does change the whole as a narrative, when it comes to looking at the big picture. Some do not desire a bigger picture but only a smaller picture, perhaps only a mirror to look at for themselves, and how they are holding out compared to their fellow comrades, who may or may not be struggling in the faith.

The Peril of Unbelief​

12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart [c]that falls away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end, 15 while it is said,

“Today if you hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts, as [d]when they provoked Me.”
16 For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses? 17 And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? 19 So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

 

[Phil .]

Once saved, always saved is a myth.

Dont fight about it but explain why or why not?

I don’t believe it is viable because of Jesus parable of the sower. Also when Jesus explains you most abide in him. Also when Jesus talks about those who say lord lord let us in.

It is just a myth that is a lie; as much as people going to hell today is, and that Satan is out to get you still, praise God for the victory of Jesus Christ!

It’s true, as saved is that of seeing clearly or simply reality as is. Discordant self referential thoughts might still arise, but once the bottom of a bucket falls away the bucket holds no water.

This does not change ‘you reap what you sow’ experientially, anymore than no longer believing there is a separate thing called a sun changes the light & warm felt.

A man bangs loudly on the church door yelling “Let me in! Let me in! I want to know this peace too!”, to which a voice from within reply’s, “but if we let you in, there won’t be this peace!”.

SELF REFERENTIAL THOUGHTS — Actuality Of Being

www.actualityofbeing.com

 

[MatthewG]

That doesn’t make sense @Phil . thank you for sharing your thoughts with me though. All the best to you and yours mate.

 

[Phil .]

That doesn’t make sense @Phil . thank you for sharing your thoughts with me though. All the best to you and yours mate.

Perhaps it is said not to make sense as the belief ‘your thoughts’ is overlooked.
There are only thinkers for a thinker; possessions for the possessed.
If there is any question as to clarifying what was said, feel free.

 

[MatthewG]

Love you nonetheless, @Phil .

Once saved always saved is a myth. A person who follows and seeks after Yahavah and endures to the end shall be saved.

Matthew 24:13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

op: osas myth?

Precious friends, when Rules #5 and #6 of Bible study Rules are prayerfully and Carefully
followed, then we find God's Sound Doctrine Of His Eternal Salvation, not a myth:

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST
+ Update
+
God's Eternal Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

If perchance we don't understand All Scripture, Then This Would Be The Biblical Reason:

"For My Thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My Ways, Saith ​

The LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My Ways Higher ​

Than your ways, and My Thoughts Than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)​

Amen.

 

[marks]

Matthew 24:13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

That was spoken to Isreal concerning the end of the age. This is not a blanket statement concerning rebirth.

Rebirth is forever, otherwise, passages such as this would be untrue:

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

This passage is specifically about dying and raising in Christ, that is, being born again.

If we will keep everything in context, and accept what is written, this is the context, this is what is written.

Much love!

 

[Taken]

op: osas myth?

Precious friends, when Rules #5 and #6 of Bible study Rules are prayerfully and Carefully
followed, then we find God's Sound Doctrine Of His Eternal Salvation, not a myth:

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST
+ Update
+
God's Eternal Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

If perchance we don't understand All Scripture, Then This Would Be The Biblical Reason:

"For My Thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My Ways, Saith ​

The LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My Ways Higher ​

Than your ways, and My Thoughts Than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)​

Amen.

Precisely!

It’s FREEWILL…to Believe, Trust, Agree, Accept Gods ORDER and WAY…
or NOT.

Fact IS: WITH God or AGAINST God…each have consequences….and foolish for one to think they can escape the consequences…
GOOD or BAD.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Phil .]

Love you nonetheless, @Phil .

Once saved always saved is a myth. A person who follows and seeks after Yahavah and endures to the end shall be saved.

Matthew 24:13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Saved = not a person = there aren’t people = that was a belief.

As there is no experience of a future, being saved can not happen in a future.

Truly, time (always), is a myth.

Seeing the puppet show, and seeing the strings… can ye believe again in puppets of free will?

 

[MatthewG]

@Phil . cool, not really sure what to say by your perspective which is not mine.

 

[MatthewG]

op: osas myth?

Yes, once saved always saved is a myth, @GRACE ambassador.

You and me both put our hope and faith in Yahavah daily. That is a choice.

Sometimes people walk away from that choice and can slip falling away, even turning away from the living God.

Endure to the end and you shall be saved is what Jesus said, right?

What do you endure? Putting Yahavah first, and loving your neighbor as yourself? Denying oneself and picking up the cross?

 

[MatthewG]

Precisely!

It’s FREEWILL…to Believe, Trust, Agree, Accept Gods ORDER and WAY…
or NOT.

Fact IS: WITH God or AGAINST God…each have consequences….and foolish for one to think they can escape the consequences…
GOOD or BAD.

Glory to God,
Taken

This is indirectly ignoring people who were of faith who fell away...


But hell if we cant trust the bible , might as not use it at all.

 

[Phil .]

@Phil . cool, not really sure what to say by your perspective which is not mine.

2 Peter 1:20 (NIV):
"Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things."

"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

Multiplicity of perspectives is an interpretation which arises in one perspective.

 

[MatthewG]

@Phil ., okay. That is why the subject at hand is so divisive, but there is reasoning for the circumstance.

People struggle. Sometimes the world comes in, and chokes the word out of people. That is why anyone who says "oh just say this prayer one time and you will be saved forever", and not continue in relationship, and have no change of heart, or anything like is just a bunch of bullhockey. But apparently people who have been told this lie, continue to think they are okay... there is no supplement of supplication to God or any seeking in faith.

People can believe a lie as small as, hey just do this one time and that is it. You are justified sanctified, and God loves you no matter what (even that gossip about susy sally and her lazy butt not doing shoot! He doesnt need your attention hell, and he will give all your hearts desire from riches to everything material.