Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[APAK]

These persons should try reading
2 Peter 2:20-22

20For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. 22It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”

GodsGrace: I believe in the scripture you posed, Peter was speaking of false teachers and unbelievers that at one time learned and knew (not or never believed) the gospel (holy commandment), and might have thought they were 'saved' and yet returned back as a lifestyle again, enticing others and in their old ways and the ways of the world. I believe this verse is not about a true believer that possesses the spirit of God within them.

APAK

 

[Taken]

Once Saved ~ Always Saved

Until Saved ~ Not Saved

Learning About ~ Not Saved

Learning About ~ Becoming Enlightened

Learning ~ Enlightening ~ Options
1) Believe what one is learning
2) Change Mind and not believe
3) Walk away ~ returning to Darkness
4) Return To Learning ~ being Enlightened
5) Walk away ~ returning to Darkness
6) Return To Learning ~ being Enlightened
7) Repeat over and over
8) Walk away ~ Stay Away ~ Darkness

Stay Away ~ Not Saved ~ Darkness

Stay in Learning ~ being Enlightened ~
Trust to Believe "IN" ones "Heart" ~
"If", "If", "If"...

"If" ~ one is willing and sure.
.........2 Pet 1:10
"If" ~ one confesses To the Lord
.........Belief In ones Heart.
.........Rom 10:9
.........1 The 1:4
"If" ~ one confesses To men
.........Chirst Jesus came in the Flesh
.........Died and Rose up.
.........Rom 10:9
.........Matt 10:32

A man who was willing to learn About, but not commit, Was believing in his Mind ~ Fell Away and ~ Is Not Saved.
........

A man who was willing to Learn About, Trust to Believe in his Heart, and Confess, Is ~
Saved Once and Forever.

Once Saved is a man Who ~
Believed in His Heart And Confessed ~
He is:
Forever;
Forgiven, Cleansed, Covered, Saved, Quickened, Sanctified,
By the Power of God ~
By the Mercies of God ~

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Understanding ~

.. Fooling God ~
.. Fooling men ~

Romans 10
[9] That "if" thou shalt confess with thy Mouth unto the Lord Jesus....

(Does God need to hear your Mouth speak?
Who can hear a man confess to the Lord with his Mouth?
This is a confession To the Lord, with a mans Mouth, before other men.)

Romans 10
[9] ...and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised home from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

(This is a confession To the Lord, with the mans heart).

Who can be Fooled?

Men who hear a mans mouth confess?
Yes.

God who looks into a mans heart for belief?
No.

Men who hear men confess...
Believe:
The man was saved? Yes
Baptize the man in Water? Yes
Baptized in the Name of Father, Son, HS? Yes
Honor the man with Church membership? Yes
Fellowship with the man? Yes
Share the Word of Gods Enlightenment? Yes
Include the man in Communion? Yes
Give the man honored positions within the
....Church? Possibly

And?
What if the mans hearts didn't really believe?

Who did the man fool?

Other men? Yes
God? No

Every Word of God a man hears, the man Is being "enlightened". As God Is Light, so Is His Word.

A man begins being "enlightened" By hearing the Word of God.
A man continues being "enlightened" By continue hearing and reading the Word of God.

Being "enlightened", is Not Becoming Saved.
Being "enlightened", is Hearing About God.

Any man; saved or unsaved can partake in being "enlightened".

Any man; saved or unsaved being "enlightened", are "tasting" of the Power of the Holy Spirit.

Hearing, is not being Saved.
Tasting, is not being Saved.
Falsely confessing to men, is not being Saved.
Not believing in ones heart,is not being Saved

A false confession out of ones mouth, before men, is a false confession.
Such a man has called on the Lords Name, before men, and fooled men.

God searches a man heart.
Only God and the man knows a mans heart.

A man Who, makes a false confession before men, then confesses to men, disbelief, has called on the Lords Name, and made a false confession to the Lord, before men;

And

Was the man Saved? No.

And

Did the man openly lie to God, shame God, partaking in Church Membership, Communion, fooling heart-felt Believers? Yes.

And

Heb 6:4
For it is impossible for those who were on enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Heb 6:5
and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Oops. They confessed, then "unconfessed", by now openly rejecting belief.

Then what? Baptize them again? No.

Heb 6:6
"If" they shall fall away, to renew them again into repentance;
Seeing they crucify "to themselves" the Son of God afresh, and "put Him to open shame."

Scripture is clear.
Hear, Learn, become enlightened, Continue.
One can stop following and return repeatedly.
Be Sure before one Confesses to Commit.
It is a Sure and One Time confession.
If one's Confession is Heart-felt True;
....One is Saved.
If one's Confession is a Lie;
....one cannot Fool God.
....one is Not Saved, nor shall be.
....one can not put Jesus' Crucified Body to Shame.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

But, don't you also think every person will be saved?

No.

Divisions occur in Scripture ~
In ancient times:
...Hebrews & Gentiles divided
In ancient times:
...Tribes announced
In ancient times:
...Tribes divided
In ancient times:
...Israel/Jacob from other Jews/tribes divided
In Jesus' time:
...division between all men

Luke 12:51
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth?
I tell you, Nay; but rather division.

What is this division?

Matt 12:30
He that is not "with" me is "against" me...

"All people"....have a classification.
"All people" who "are" "with" God...
"All people" who "are" "against" God...

In context of Who "all" are, is determined...
By exclusively of Who "Is with" God, and Who "Is not with" God.

"All" who are "with" God, are "saved".
"All" who are "without" God, are "not saved".

"All" who are "with" God, "are" His people, and He their God.

"All" who are "without" God, "are not" His people, nor He their God.

God gives every natural born individual their own life, (ie their Blood).
Gen 9:4
Gen 9:5

And during their life-time, they can choose their own standing to be "with" or "without" God; for or against God.

God is Just ~ God is Faithful
Ask and ye shall receive.
Choose to be "without" God, ye shall receive.
Choose to be "with" God, ye shall receive.

Matt 1:8
Ask, and it shall be given you;

Matt 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way,
Which "leadeth unto life",
And "few there be that find it".

"All" hear, learn, follow, believe, commit, unto forever life? No.

"Few" hear, learn, follow, believe, commit unto and receive forever life. Yes.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

You are either saved !!! Or Not!

Once saved is for ever............ but what you do on this earth gives you your position in the heavens.........

Agree ~

The caveat is "Once".

That is the whole crux of the matter, that the "Once" actually occurs, because "Once" it occurs it is permanent, forever.
Because the Lord is Faithful, His Word True, His Truth Stands.

Agree ~

It gives one position in Heaven.

Further, the positioning in Heaven, is determined BY Works accomplished on earth, that Glorifies Gods Great Name.

Do few Works, receive few Rewards, and be called the Least in the Kingdom of God.

Do many Works, receive many Rewards, and be called Great in the Kingdom of God.

Luke 7:28
For I say to you, Among them that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist:

But he that is least in the Kingdom of God is greater than he.

Becoming Saved and Born Again is exclusively By the Power of God, unto a man who has Truly believed in His Heart, in God, and called on the Lords Name to make such confession.

The same, shall be from the Least to the Greatest so called, in the Kingdom of God, depending on the Works they do or do not do to Glorify Gods Name.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

I have also seen those who think they are justified in something and yet couldn't be more wrong...I truly prefer His justification

the two seem to be easily conflated, but hypocrisy is still as easy to see as it has ever been, i guess. except by the hypocrite

 

[tabletalk]

No.

Divisions occur in Scripture ~
In ancient times:
...Hebrews & Gentiles divided
In ancient times:
...Tribes announced
In ancient times:
...Tribes divided
In ancient times:
...Israel/Jacob from other Jews/tribes divided
In Jesus' time:
...division between all men

Luke 12:51
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth?
I tell you, Nay; but rather division.

What is this division?

Matt 12:30
He that is not "with" me is "against" me...

"All people"....have a classification.
"All people" who "are" "with" God...
"All people" who "are" "against" God...

In context of Who "all" are, is determined...
By exclusively of Who "Is with" God, and Who "Is not with" God.

"All" who are "with" God, are "saved".
"All" who are "without" God, are "not saved".

"All" who are "with" God, "are" His people, and He their God.

"All" who are "without" God, "are not" His people, nor He their God.

God gives every natural born individual their own life, (ie their Blood).
Gen 9:4
Gen 9:5

And during their life-time, they can choose their own standing to be "with" or "without" God; for or against God.

God is Just ~ God is Faithful
Ask and ye shall receive.
Choose to be "without" God, ye shall receive.
Choose to be "with" God, ye shall receive.

Matt 1:8
Ask, and it shall be given you;

Matt 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way,
Which "leadeth unto life",
And "few there be that find it".

"All" hear, learn, follow, believe, commit, unto forever life? No.

"Few" hear, learn, follow, believe, commit unto and receive forever life. Yes.

God Bless,
Taken

I actually agree with you.
I was responding to ByGrace, and wondering how she could support OSAS (and why it would matter to her) when I was aware that she also believes all people will be saved.

 

[Taken]

I actually agree with you.
I was responding to ByGrace, and wondering how she could support OSAS (and why it would matter to her) when I was aware that she also believes all people will be saved.

I did see that, and was elaborating.

Thank you,
God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Yes ~

Saved Once is Sufficient and Permanent.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[GodsGrace]

If you make your bed in heaven, he's there
if you make your bed in hell, he's there
He's everywhere! Psalm 139:8;

I agree. Death will be a continuation of life, this mortal life I mean.
If we live here with God, He'll be with us after death.
And if we, instead, wish to make this life here with the enemy, then the enemy will be with us after death.

It's our choice...

 

[GodsGrace]

Well I don't know Don Alberto, but I am glad someone else agrees with me. If we both always agree with God then all is to the good.


I like your idea of hell.


One idea that comes to me, [perhaps through person but I don't recall for sure,] is that when Jesus was sent to us from the Father, he was sent down to hell. He spent his time in hell when he dwelt among us in the flesh of a man subject to the temptations and sufferings of a man. All of us here are effectively IN hell even though we may not be OF hell because we met and have followed Jesus. Jesus came down to hell and conquered it [overcame it]. He then left hell. We can do the same.

Your last paragraph is an interesting concept.
Mainline theologians do not believe Jesus spend any time in hell.
But the N.T. does speak of His going to the prisons... maybe someplace in Hades - who could know this for sure. Sometimes we spend pages discussing ideas we cannot know about even if Paul, or anyone, tries to explain them.

And I made a mistake, Don Angelo is the name, NOT Don Alberto.
(for Don Alberto's sake!). He also believes in ahhihalism. I could never be one of those because it's an impossible word to spell, and I'm a pretty good speller! Oh my. Where's BofL when you need him!!

 

[GodsGrace]

So who are you trying to convince?
The many so called Christians in the world that think they are saved and are not?
You're wasting your time on this forum doing that.
If you want to reach those people, just go to your local church.

Who are we to say who's saved and who is not??
Some ACT like they're not saved, but then proclaim that they are.
These are the ones that confuse me.
If you're saved, you should act the "part"...
Jesus said so. He didn't speak so much about being "saved", but He did speak a lot of behaving like it.

 

[GodsGrace]

GodsGrace: I believe in the scripture you posed, Peter was speaking of false teachers and unbelievers that at one time learned and knew (not or never believed) the gospel (holy commandment), and might have thought they were 'saved' and yet returned back as a lifestyle again, enticing others and in their old ways and the ways of the world. I believe this verse is not about a true believer that possesses the spirit of God within them.

APAK

You probably believe in eternal salvation.
It does not exist in the N.T.
Next time you read what Jesus said during His 3 year plus ministry, pay attention to what He's saying.

He never said that you believe one time and are saved forever.
Look at this verse:
John 5:28-29
28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deedsto a resurrection of judgment.

Jesus nowhere speaks as to being saved. HE said that a judgement is coming, those who did GOOD DEEDS to a resurrection of LIFE, those who committed EVIL DEEDS to a resurrection of judgement, or death.
We need to pay attention to what Jesus said. How would YOU interpret these verses?

2 Peter 2:20-22
20For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. 22It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”

It does NOT matter who the passage is speaking about; here's what matters:

1. They had escaped the defilement of the world by the KNOWLEDGE of the Lord and SAVIOR.

2. They are AGAIN entangled. The word AGAIN, means that they were:
entangled
saved
AGAIN entangled

3. Their state is worse than the first at which time they did not KNOW of Christ, but now they do and their sin is greater.
Luke 12:48

4. They DID know the way of righteousness, but then RETURNED to the life from which they were delivered.

 

[Taken]

Who are we to say who's saved and who is not??
Some ACT like they're not saved, but then proclaim that they are.
These are the ones that confuse me.
If you're saved, you should act the "part"...
Jesus said so. He didn't speak so much about being "saved", but He did speak a lot of behaving like it.

Being Saved is one thing.
Behavior is another thing.

Behavior rolls into Works.
Yes Jesus spoke much about Behavior....
Because;
Good and Favorable behavior does two things;
1) It can (if in His Name), Glorifies His Name On Earth.
Thus a benefit to Christ.
2) It helps a man in his mortal life to avoid subjection to the ill wills, wickedness, and personal and legal ill consequences of poor behavior.
Thus a benefit to mankind.

But what If a man is Saved and Born Again, yet behaves poorly? Then what?

Another Saved and Born Again man is "supposed" to be able to approach him about his behavior being reflected negatively on him, as well as on being a Child of God.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

You probably believe in eternal salvation.
It does not exist in the N.T.
Next time you read what Jesus said during His 3 year plus ministry, pay attention to what He's saying.

He never said that you believe one time and are saved forever.
Look at this verse:
John 5:28-29
28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deedsto a resurrection of judgment.

Jesus nowhere speaks as to being saved. HE said that a judgement is coming, those who did GOOD DEEDS to a resurrection of LIFE, those who committed EVIL DEEDS to a resurrection of judgement, or death.
We need to pay attention to what Jesus said. How would YOU interpret these verses?

2 Peter 2:20-22
20For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. 22It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”

It does NOT matter who the passage is speaking about; here's what matters:

1. They had escaped the defilement of the world by the KNOWLEDGE of the Lord and SAVIOR.

2. They are AGAIN entangled. The word AGAIN, means that they were:
entangled
saved
AGAIN entangled

3. Their state is worse than the first at which time they did not KNOW of Christ, but now they do and their sin is greater.
Luke 12:48

4. They DID know the way of righteousness, but then RETURNED to the life from which they were delivered.

Totally Disagree with your presented understanding.

God Bless,
Tested

 

[GodsGrace]

Being Saved is one thing.
Behavior is another thing.

Behavior rolls into Works.
Yes Jesus spoke much about Behavior....
Because;
Good and Favorable behavior does two things;
1) It can (if in His Name), Glorifies His Name On Earth.
Thus a benefit to Christ.
2) It helps a man in his mortal life to avoid subjection to the ill wills, wickedness, and personal and legal ill consequences of poor behavior.
Thus a benefit to mankind.

But what If a man is Saved and Born Again, yet behaves poorly? Then what?

Another Saved and Born Again man is "supposed" to be able to approach him about his behavior being reflected negatively on him, as well as on being a Child of God.

God Bless,
Taken

No. Behavior also affects God. It is not ONLY for us or for a witness as many state.

It's what Jesus demanded.
We're required to behave in a Christianly manner, otherwise we're just like the rest of the world. Isn't this true?

Jesus said If You Love Me, You Will Keep My Commandments.
John 14:15

What commandments? Every word that came out of Jesus' mouth that had to do with behavior was a commandment. For instance, Mathew 5:3-10, Mathew 25:34-46

Paul also made a point of how we're to behave:
Romans 13:9-13
1 Corinthians 5:9-13
2 Corinthians 5:17
Galatians 5:19-21
and more...

If one behaves poorly, he might be a new Christian or might be having some difficulty or might not have had light shed on his behavior. This is not for me to know and it'll be between him and our Father, but I know that a certain behavior IS expected from us, to the best of our ability - which only God knows.

 

[GodsGrace]

Totally Disagree with your presented understanding.

God Bless,
Tested

What good is disagreeing?
Tell us why you disagree.
What did I say that seems incorrect...

 

[GodsGrace]

Totally Disagree with your presented understanding.

God Bless,
Tested

By the way, IT IS NOT MY understanding.
It's the teaching of mainline churches.
Some churches these days like to teach new ideas that were not around until the year 1,500 AD.

 

[amadeus]

Your last paragraph is an interesting concept.
Mainline theologians do not believe Jesus spend any time in hell.

Mainline theologians have been men as we are men. They can have revelations from God or they can make their own mistakes, like all the rest of us mere humans. Why would it be wrong to say that Jesus spent time in hell when he came here and lived in flesh as a man subject to all of the temptations of a man? But then even before the cross he says this:

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." John 17:11

The world he was no longer in was the hell that he overcame prior to going to the cross to pay a price for you and me.

But the N.T. does speak of His going to the prisons... maybe someplace in Hades - who could know this for sure. Sometimes we spend pages discussing ideas we cannot know about even if Paul, or anyone, tries to explain them.

Are not prisons [I Peter 3:19] where all of the unredeemed sinners are? They are imprisoned by their sins and their sinful ways.

Consider the fasting of Jesus:

"And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting." Matt 17:20-21

And what exactly does His fast accomplish?

"Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?" Isaiah 55:6-7

And I made a mistake, Don Angelo is the name, NOT Don Alberto.
(for Don Alberto's sake!). He also believes in ahhihalism. I could never be one of those because it's an impossible word to spell, and I'm a pretty good speller! Oh my. Where's BofL when you need him!!

That's OK. I believed it before I really understood it had a name could not spell the word. Even now I stumble on it and will let a spell check program make the necessary correction.

 

[GodsGrace]

Mainline theologians have been men as we are men. They can have revelations from God or they can make their own mistakes, like all the rest of us mere humans. Why would it be wrong to say that Jesus spent time in hell when he came here and lived in flesh as a man subject to all of the temptations of a man? But then even before the cross he says this:

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are." John 17:11

The world he was no longer in was the hell that he overcame prior to going to the cross to pay a price for you and me.


Are not prisons [I Peter 3:19] where all of the unredeemed sinners are? They are imprisoned by their sins and their sinful ways.

Consider the fasting of Jesus:

"And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting." Matt 17:20-21

And what exactly does His fast accomplish?

"Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?" Isaiah 55:6-7


That's OK. I believed it before I really understood it had a name could not spell the word. Even now I stumble on it and will let a spell check program make the necessary correction.

I need that spell check program...
I do respect theologians. I can't put myself in their class. I've read some books, not many, and the knowledge they have is awesome. Of course, I agree with those that are of the ideas that I've learned from churches and with which I agree with.

As far as the prison idea and Jesus going to hell. This is a very complicated subject and I've never devoted the proper time to it that it would take to really understand it. It SEEMS to me to be impossible that Jesus could have interred into hell. The hell that is meant by most persons. I can't even imagine it. Some churches do teach this.

The N.T. does say that He preached in this place, giving those there a chance to be saved. I hope you know the scriptures enough not to ask for verses, but I'll find them if necessary for you.

This bothers me anyway. Isn't one judged immediately after death?
Were not the ones dead prior to the resurrection already in hell or Abraham's Bossom (awaiting the resurrection) in Luke 16? Why would Jesus give everyone a second change?

What idiot would not accept it after realizing that life after death is REAL !

I can't discuss this with any amount of intelligence. Your views are appreciated.