Once Saved Always Saved

[Ferris Bueller]

I did not even mention the law

In the Bible Mt. Sinai represents the covenant of law....

These things serve as illustrations, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children into slavery: This is Hagar. Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present-day Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. Galatians 4:24-25​

That's why I was following in that vein of thought. But if you're using Mt. Sinai in another way you'll have to explain.

 

[Wrangler]

I rest in the fact that we will ALL be held accountable for what we believe. Denying the supernatural event that occurs at the time of a Christian's conversion is not the BLOOD that I desire on my hands.

Why did Paul talk about there being no sacrifice to cover the sin of turning from Christ?

Belief is irrelevant. Faith through action is what we will be held accountable for. Those who believe in Jesus but do not feed him, clothe him or give him something to drink are the goats.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Why keeping you saved.

By what exactly? What is it that you say the non osas is doing to stay saved that is forbidden to do?

 

[Addy]

Sorry @Wrangler I have absolutely no interest in debating this topic... Those who believe they can lose their salvation are not my type of people.
We are all called to work out our salvation... I have worked out mine... and it is WONDERFUL.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

what if one member fails, the whole body fails? What if one member doesn’t endure to the end, does the body endure? Without a toe? Without the head? Without the feet?

1 Corinthians 12:20-26 But now are they many members, yet but one body. [21] And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. [22] Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary: [23] And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. [24] For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: [25] That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. [26] And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

if the body God has tempered together that there be no schisms...then where one goes they all go, unto the end?

"If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than to have two hands and two feet and be thrown into the eternal fire." Matthew 18:8​

 

[Wrangler]

Sorry @Wrangler I have absolutely no interest in debating this topic... Those who believe they can lose their salvation are not my type of people.
We are all called to work out our salvation... I have worked out mine... and it is WONDERFUL.

A new command I give you ... don’t do anything to let the world know you are holy, set apart, have the Spirit of God within you?!

I understand why you don’t want to debate. You are comfortable not being accountable. Words. Lip service.

14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?
James 2:14-20

 

[Addy]

I really do not think people UNDERSTAND the SEVERITY of what they state about GOD. Those who deny the security of salvation as being a DONE deal at the time of conversion are telling GOD that the SHED BLOOD of CHRIST was NOT enough... The Catholics do the same thing by adding sacraments. Their works are like filthy rags.

Conversion is a supernatural event... something happens spiritually at the time of that conversion that cannot be undone... to deny this is to deny the atonement of Christ for our sins... Plain and simple. Our works ( fruits ) are what naturally occur as we work out our lives on this planet = sanctification. God promises to FINISH within us what HE has begun.

It is amazing to me that people carry on with these endless arguements without so much as a clue that they will be held accountable for answering WHY they believed the BLOOD of CHRIST was NOT enough??? This is a sobering and fearful thought.

Anyways... those are my thoughts on this issue. An explanation (if you will) @Wrangler as to why I will not argue this topic with anyone.

 

[Addy]

A new command I give you ... don’t do anything to let the world know you are holy, set apart, have the Spirit of God within you?!

I understand why you don’t want to debate. You are comfortable not being accountable. Words. Lip service.

Just saw this after what I just wrote... Considering you do not know a thing about me... those are quite the condemning words... LOL

Brood of vipers comes to mind... LOL

 

[Eternally Grateful]

In the Bible Mt. Sinai represents the covenant of law....

These things serve as illustrations, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children into slavery: This is Hagar. Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present-day Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. Galatians 4:24-25​

That's why I was following in that vein of thought. But if you're using Mt. Sinai in another way you'll have to explain.

Your not understanding.

I said why must we go to my Sinai, what happened when the children of Israel arrived their. And what can those events teach us,

I did not ask about the law. Although paul called the law a tutor to lead us to Christ, so we can have this as part of it since the law was given there last well as its requirement,

there is a danger about going to Zion before being led by the law. I am hoping you see my point if you walk with me..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

As long as one is on Earth, they have not truly arrived, until their “walk” is finished. That is, they cannot be sure of having merited glory until their time has ended, and immortality has begun, for it is written:

"...the charity in many shall grow cold. But the one who perseveres to the end, he shall be saved." (Matt. 24:12-13)

Once again

this is concerning end times, the period of great tribulation. Not all people, and eternal salvation is not the salvation spoken of here,

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Or, to put it this way, how can you trust in something you don't know is true? That's why God first makes the unseen known so we can then trust in it and be saved.

Ok I am with ya

if our hope is eternal life, how can we trust in our hope if it is not assured?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If the above were true, then universalism is correct doctrine. What’s precious are not those who call Jesus Lord but actually do the will of God.

It is for these fruit bearing vines that the Son of God’s blood was spilled - and no one else. This is the Elect.

Nope

god did not give all mankind the right to become his children. He did not adopt all mankind as children, he did not give all mankind every spiritual blessing, he did not tell all mankind we can come to him as an abba father. I can go on and on and on

why do you fight it so much,

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Your name can be taken out of the Book of Life! We had better keep our eyes on Christ and let nothing take our crown.

Rev. 3:15

"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."

It wouldn't be written is were not possible!

And how do we overcome?

1 John 5:4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith 5. Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

all who are born of God have overcome, it was their faith that allowed them to overcome, death has no more victory over the,

 

[Ezra]

Not for those who fall away!

at what point do you fall away ?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Those who deny the security of salvation as being a DONE deal at the time of conversion are telling GOD that the SHED BLOOD of CHRIST was NOT enough...

No they are not.

They are telling you that Eternal Security is a doctrine of devils.

Because even Peter wrote this:

2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure

 

[justbyfaith]

Plus....ya gotta Repent...right? Right.

Right (Galatians 5:19-21; Matthew 13:41-42; Matthew 7:23, Matthew 25:41; Romans 6; Ezekiel 33:19 and its context in Ezekiel 33:11-20; Luke 13:1-5; and more).

Now......is it a sin to get a tattoo?

Technically, yes; because it is a violation of Old Testament law (see 1 John 3:4).

But I have more to say on this in the following post.

Commentary on Romans.

We focus on this because there are those who are believing that their salvation hinges on themselves and their "works" of "remaining saved".

It would seem that if we don't continue in His goodness, we will be "cut off" (Romans 11:20-22).

What does it mean to be cut off?

In the end... every FALSE doctrine and word spoken AGAINST the true nature of God will be harshly judged.

So, what if a doctrine that is deemed by you to be false is backed up by holy scripture? Will you be the judge of those who preach that doctrine?

Well... I believe that my salvation is a GIFT given to me by CHRIST... Gifts do not get removed.

That is true...the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable (Romans 11:29)...and eternal life is a gift (Romans 6:22-23).

This applies, not to those who have a nominal, shallow, or lukewarm faith (mere mental assent to the tenets of the gospel)...see Luke 8:12-13, Romans 11:20-22.

It applies to those who have a heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) and enduring to the end (Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14).

Those who deny the security of salvation as being a DONE deal at the time of conversion are telling GOD that the SHED BLOOD of CHRIST was NOT enough...

Nevertheless, if we do not continue in His goodness, we will be cut off (Romans 11:20-22).

Conversion is a supernatural event... something happens spiritually at the time of that conversion that cannot be undone... to deny this is to deny the atonement of Christ for our sins...

So, did Paul deny the atonement when he wrote Romans 11:20-22? Did Jesus deny it when He spoke Luke 8:12-13?

As long as one is on Earth, they have not truly arrived, until their “walk” is finished. That is, they cannot be sure of having merited glory until their time has ended, and immortality has begun, for it is written:

"...the charity in many shall grow cold. But the one who perseveres to the end, he shall be saved." (Matt. 24:12-13)

Actually, everlasting life begins at the moment of first faith for those whose faith is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) and enduring to the end (Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14)...see John 5:24.

We can indeed be sanctified in this life (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, Hebrews 10:10)....and those who have been sanctified have been perfected for ever (Hebrews 10:14).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

if our hope is eternal life, how can we trust in our hope if it is not assured?

But the hope is assured.

Let us hold resolutely to the hope we profess, for He who promised is faithful. Hebrews 10:23
​

God who made the promises is faithful to his word. That's why we should keep confidently trusting in it and not throw our faith in it away.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I said why must we go to my Sinai, what happened when the children of Israel arrived their. And what can those events teach us...

They saw the burning smoke and fire and lightning and heard the voice of God and were terrified and didn't want God to talk to them and instead have Moses talk to them. What I get out of it is people in their natural state are unfit to approach God and can only see and hear the terrifying judgment of God (The spokesperson when in that state is Moses and the law). God did that to put the fear of God in them to keep them from sinning, but the thing that God intended to bring life only brought death.

there is a danger about going to Zion before being led by the law. I am hoping you see my point if you walk with me..

I agree with that point completely. Mt. Sinai comes first, then Mt. Zion. You have to be condemned at Mt. Sinai before you can be released from that condemnation at Mt. Zion.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

But the hope is assured.

Let us hold resolutely to the hope we profess, for He who promised is faithful. Hebrews 10:23
​

God who made the promises is faithful to his word. That's why we should keep confidently trusting in it and not throw our faith in it away.

this makes no sense

If our hope is not secured if we could lose what our hope is based on. This is what John told us in Chapter 5 of his 1st epistle. That we may KNOW WE have eternal life. and by this continue to have faith.

Faith is based on this hope. There is no faith if hope can be lost for any reason

 

[Eternally Grateful]

They saw the burning smoke and fire and lightning and heard the voice of God and were terrified and didn't want God to talk to them and instead have Moses talk to them. What I get out of it is people in their natural state are unfit to approach God and can only see and hear the terrifying judgment of God (The spokesperson when in that state is Moses and the law). God did that to put the fear of God in them to keep them from sinning, but the thing that God intended to bring life only brought death.

Is this true? I do not see this.

I think again it goes way deeper than this. If fear is only to keep us from sinning, then it never worked. And if this is the only reason we come to Zion we are lacking..

I agree with that point completely. Mt. Sinai comes first, then Mt. Zion. You have to be condemned at Mt. Sinai before you can be released from that condemnation at Mt. Zion.

What was the fear? Why did they fear God? What was God trying to teach them (and us) about their position as they stand.