Once Saved Always Saved

[Reggie Belafonte]

I have heard the Once saved always saved coming from people making such a claim many a time, but they are not Saved at all, if you have any doubts at all about Jesus is not your Lord and Saviour you are not Saved.
The fact is that one must be truly born again of the Holy Spirit, to be truly Saved, Jesus knows you then and you know him and abide in him and he in you. so then you can not be plucked out of his hand ? why because you are his and you are not of this world, you are of the Kingdom of God, now as such their is a list in the Bible of they who can not enter into the Kingdom of God in fact.

 

[justbyfaith]

OK, I understand your thinking on this.

The reason I don't think that way is that I don't see it transferable, as I'm not doing the signs and wonders to show I'm the Messiah, and I see this within that context.

Much love!

You may be showing forth signs and wonders to show that Jesus is the Messiah, if you are filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I like what you wrote but disagree. Although the plane departs in the future, I have the ticket now. We have the ticket now even though we do not need it until later, Judgment Day. We can be confident of our future now, boldly approaching the throne of God.

3 Blessed is God, the Father of our Lord Jesus, the Anointed One! Because He has raised Jesus the Anointed from death, through His great mercy we have been reborn into a living hope— 4 reborn for an eternal inheritance, held in reserve in heaven, that will never fade or fail.
1 Peter 1:3-4 (Voice)

Ephesians 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

I agree with you here. Referring to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, Paul described the "ticket" as "an earnest" on our inheritance. This is why I describe salvation in terms of an action that started in the past and continues at present. In the passage above, Paul describes such an action. Those whom God saves, are those who listened to the message of truth (past action), believed it (past action) sealed in him with the Holy Spirit (past action) given as a pledge of our inheritance (continuing state).

In Paul's analogy, the inheritance can't be lost. Why? In Romans 8:15 Paul calls this "the spirit of the adoption as sons" and the phrase "adoption as sons" comes from Roman law, whereby a man chooses to designate a boy or young man to be his "son" with regard to his inheritance.

Suppose a man is going to die, but he is childless, never having gotten married? What is to become of his wealth and property after he dies? Normally a man would gift his wealth to his first born son, who inherits his father's property after he dies. But in the case of a man has no biological son, he has the legal right to declare some other person to be his "son", with respect to the question of who is to take possession of his property and wealth.

Earlier in Romans Paul argues that once God has given a person his spirit as a pledge of his inheritance, this condition will continue until his hope is fulfilled. For those whom God has sealed with his Holy Spirit, hope does not disappoint. Romans 5:5

 

[Pearl]

2 Timothy 2:13

"If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself."

 

[Taken]

Wow are you confused! Hebrews 10:26 does not talk about salvation but the sacrifice that does NOT EXIST for sins. Hebrews 10:26 specifically undermines your theological construct of OSAS. You would do well to re-read Hebrews 10. How in the world could you think one could not lose their salvation after reading the next 2 verses is beyond me.


28 Remember that those who depart from the law of Moses are put to death without mercy based on the testimony of two or three witnesses.[a] 29 Just think how much more severe the punishment will be for those who have turned their backs on the Son of God, trampled on the blood of the covenant by which He made them holy, and outraged the Spirit of grace with their contempt.
Hebrews 10:28-29 (Voice)

How in the world could you think one could not lose their salvation after reading the next 2 verses is beyond me.

Agree, it is beyond you. You do not understand.

Heb 10:
[28] He that despised Moses' law "died without mercy" under two or three witnesses:

Hebrews/Jews/Tribes of Israel...IS (the "he") being spoken of. (Not Gentile's).

The Tribes...were under the Law of Moses.
For 4,000 years any (Tribal man) that Stopped "obeying" the Law of Moses...
Died Rejecting God.
Died without Gods Mercy.
Died without Salvation.

Is that you? Israel? It's not me.

Once Jesus arrived on Earth...
A new Covenant was being taught....
First; To The Jews, By the Jews, that Jesus Taught, that Jesus Appointed,
Secondly; To All the Tribes, By the Jews, that Jesus Appointed....and Sent out Traveling...
TO Where? TO Cities...To Jewish synagogs, To Tribesmen, First, who WERE still practinging the Law of Moses...and Jewish townsmen having DEPARTED following the Law of Moses....But NOW HEARING their Messiah had Arrived.

Heb 10:28
Is notice TO Israel Tribesmen...
Those who Stopped Obeying Mosaic Law...
Died Against God and WITHOUT Gods Mercy of Salvation.

[29] Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Heb 10:29
Is notice TO...ISRAEL....and Any man (Jew or Genile)... Jesus IS the Savior OF ALL men.
It is First Told to ISRAEL...by the Disciples Jesus Taught, Jesus Sent out to the country side TO Teach ISRAEL...

IF they Hear of Jesus, and REJECT Him, as any Of ISRAEL, Rejected God...(by NOT obeying Their Law of Moses)...
Such a man IS NOT worthy of Gods MERCY to BE Saved...

• And what does that Warning (of Rejecting Jesus' Offering of Salvation) have to Do with
ANY MAN receiving Salvation...
THEN Losing his Salvation?

Nothing!

ONCE...any man Receives The Lords Gift of Salvation...
Do you NOT understand...that man IS KEPT Saved BY the Power of God IN the man?

Do you NOT understand...the miraculous WORKS/CHANGES the Power of God Accomplishes WITHIN a man HE SAVES?

Do you not understand...A man who "LOSES" his Salvation IS a man...who has HEARD Jesus arrived on Earth...TO OFFER ALL MEN, Salvation....and the man who HAS Heard, And HAS Rejected The Lords Offering...
IS the man WHO "LOSES" his Salvation...Expressly Because he REFUSED Jesus' Offering?

Such a man...dies IN His sin, without Gods Mercy, without The Lords Forgiveness, without a Saved soul, without a Born Again Spirit, without Gods Seed, without A circumcised new Heart, without sanctification of being SET APART unto God, Without Gods Truth, Without Justification to be Raised in a glorious eternally living body...

A Saved man ... "IS given" All of Those ^^ things....ONCE...
And you don't believe ...Gods Giving those things To a man ...ONCE...is Able to be KEPT unto that man Forever, by the Power of God?

Absolutely...I believe a man Given those things ONCE IS KEPT unto that man Forever, by the Power of God.

Absolutey...I believe a man who Hears and Rejects The Lords Offering of Forgiveness and Salvation....Loses his opportunity TO BE Saved.

Absolutely NOT, do I believe a man CAN RECEIVE the Lords Gift of Salvation....AND THEN "LOSE" it.

Nothing IN Scripture Teaches ...
God Giving...
Forgiveness, A Restored soul, His Seed, a circumcised heart, a Born Again spirit, His Spirit...and THEN "Taking it back, Undoing that"...

That ^^ IS your teaching...not Scripture.

So yes...(the understanding ) is beyond you.

Learn the truth, from the Lord, before you try to argue against the Truth, with man's understanding.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I picked the verses I quoted with great care. Jesus said you can prophey in his name, cast out devils in his name and do many wonderful works in his name, and he still says, "I NEVER knew you!"

'Knowing' God denotes intimacy. I believe you can be saved and not have an intimate relationship with God. And it's believers who don't have an intimate relationship with God, yet, who are in danger of casting the word of God from the soil of their heart. Fruit bearing indicates not only relationship with God, but intimate relationship with God, and it is these kind of believers who Christ said persevere in their fruit bearing and have roots that go real deep and retain the word in them.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

2 Timothy 2:13

"If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself."

Now contrast that with the person who denies him in verse 12. Being faithless and denying him are two very different things and have two very different outcomes. You can be faithless to God all the while still believing the gospel and remaining saved, but you can not disown him outright in unbelief and remain saved.

 

[justbyfaith]

2 Timothy 2:13

"If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself."

2Ti 2:11, It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
2Ti 2:12, If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
2Ti 2:13, If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

 

[Charlie24]

The meaning of the term, "made partaker of the Holy Spirit' is this: "if I am unsaved and in a Christian congregation, I will still partake of the Holy Spirit." Speaking of the unsaved.

To God Be The Glory

I suppose it being "impossible to be renewed to repentance" means they never repented in the first place.

You're denying the plain Word of God, period!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

The meaning of the term, "made partaker of the Holy Spirit' is this: "if I am unsaved and in a Christian congregation, I will still partake of the Holy Spirit." Speaking of the unsaved.

The Holy Spirit is only given to the obedient born again:

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Heb 10:
[28] He that despised Moses' law "died without mercy" under two or three witnesses:

Hebrews/Jews/Tribes of Israel...IS (the "he") being spoken of. (Not Gentile's).

Is that you? Israel? It's not me.

Heb 10:28
Is notice TO Israel Tribesmen...


[29] Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Heb 10:29
Is notice TO...ISRAEL....and Any man (Jew or Genile)...

You may have gotten duped into Dispensationalism, but not me. All the scriptures are for all men to either accept or reject.

I guess Paul didn’t get the memo from Dispensationalists when he quoted scriptures from Numbers 11 in 1 Corinthians 10; Paul said that the things written in Numbers 11 were:

1 Corinthians 10:6
...our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

And likewise the things written in Hebrews 10 are for us as well.

People need to stop getting tricked into believing all these smooth and crafty doctrines that turn them from the truth!

 

[Wrangler]

so we can take this as you have no rebuttal?

I already refuted your claim. Now we are just doing laps on ground already covered.

 

[Taken]

The Holy Spirit is only given to the obedient born again:

Exactly!
Well aware, and have said nothing to the contrary.

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Yes. Obey Him. He is not A Law.

You may have gotten duped into Dispensationalism, but not me

Well you will have to Elaborate...
Exactly what do you disagree with me?

I said...Men who have been Saved....Never BECOME UNSAVED.

Is that what you Disagree with?

I said...Men who have Rejected becoming Saved, lose their Salvation.

Is that what you disagree with?

Or something else?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@Taken

You are mixed up.

The first quote was not yours, and:

I never replied to the quoted statements you brought up.

I quoted your statements regarding portions of Hebrews 10 that you said were directed exclusively at Israel.

Look at my post again...

 

[Guestman]

Sorry folks, I can't go along with this! I know it's a huge argument but the scripture makes it clear that man can lose his salvation through unbelief, that is, no longer believing in Christ for whatever reason and just walking away from Him.

This is what blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is all about, as we shall see from scripture! The Holy Spirit is humiliated by dwelling in a person who now rejects Christ!

There were some who had accepted Christ as their Saviour but now have gone back to temple worship (Judaism) and renounced Christ. This is what is happening in Hebrews 6.

But before we go there, I would like to say that OSAS came from the Calvinist teaching that the chosen of God cannot resist His grace. They cannot resist receiving it or resist losing it. Therefore they cannot lose their salvation. I intend to prove this is not biblical!

Hebrews 6:4-6

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

As we see here, they were "made partakers of the Holy Spirit" and fell away, in this case, going back to temple worship, thereby rejecting Christ.

They have committed the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and can never be renewed unto repentance. But the thing is, they will never want to be renewed unto repentance in Christ.

So if you are ever concerned that you may have committed the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, that is proof you haven't! You will not be concerned of it because you are no longer concerned about Christ.

The doctrinal belief of "once saved always saved" is not scriptural, for "the serpent" or Satan the Devil, before he rebelled in the garden of Eden, before becoming Satan, meaning "resistor" and Devil meaning "slanderer", was possibly the angel that was given oversight of the garden of Eden was "faultless in your ways from the day you were created until unrighteousness was found in you."(Eze 28:12-15)

And as long as both Adam and Eve carefully followed the simple command to not eat from "the tree of knowledge of good and bad", they remained in God's favor.(Gen 2:16, 17) But once all three crossed "into no man's land" because of disobedience, being perfect, well aware of what they were doing, unable to blame imperfection or sin on their "error" (Gen 3:1-6), God passed adverse judgment on all three, saying: "Then Jehovah God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this, you (Satan, not literal snakes or serpents) are the cursed one out of all the domestic animals and out of all the wild animals of the field. On your belly you will go (or looked upon with degradation), and you will (symbolically) eat dust all the days of your life. And I will put enmity (or hatred) between you and the (symbolic) woman and between your offspring and her offspring. He will crush your head, and you will strike him in the heel.”(Gen 3:14, 15; Note: Jehovah is God's personal name)

Thus, at the outset of mankind's history, because of disobedience, death now entered the picture, for all three mutineers were judged worthy of everlasting death or Gehenna, and in which Jehovah told Adam: "Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, ‘You must not eat from it,’ cursed is the ground on your account......In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”(Gen 3:17, 19)

Though all were "saved" by being obedient at one point, now all three, along with all who sides with them (or Satan's "offspring" Gen 3:15) in rebelling against Jehovah's sovereignty, such as Cain who was Adam's firstborn (Gen 4:1), will be met with everlasting death also, even if they once served Jehovah loyally.

At Jude 5, 6, Jude wrote: "Although you are fully aware of all of this, I want to remind you that Jehovah, having saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those not showing faith. And the (once loyal) angels who did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place, he has reserved with eternal bonds in dense darkness for the (adverse) judgment of the great day", that will end with their destruction.(Rev 20:7-10)

At Ezekiel 33, note what Jehovah says: "And you, son of man, tell the sons of your people, ‘The righteousness of the righteous man will not save him when he revolts; nor will the wickedness of the wicked man make him stumble when he turns away from his wickedness; nor will anyone righteous be able to keep living because of his righteousness in the day that he sins. When I say to the righteous one: “You will surely keep living,” and he trusts in his own righteousness and does what is wrong, none of his righteous acts will be remembered, but he will die for the wrong that he has done."(Eze 33:12, 13)

Thus, no righteous person is "once saved always saved", for "he will die for the wrong that he has done." At Ezekiel 33:18, it continues to affirm this, saying: "When someone righteous abandons his righteousness and does what is wrong, he must die for it."

Continuing to live on and on, or forever, is therefore dependent on maintaining a righteous standing before Jehovah. At Revelation 2, Jesus tells those who are being tested for their faithful stand to Jehovah God: "Do not be afraid of the things you are about to suffer. Look ! The Devil will keep on throwing some of you into prison so that you may be fully put to the test, and you will have tribulation for ten days (or the complete time a person must stand loyal to Jehovah while on the earth). Prove yourself faithful even to death, and I will give you the crown of life."(Rev 2:10)

Then, and only then, is a person given "the crown of life", for if they prove disloyal to Jehovah at any time and remains unfaithful, "he must die for it".

 

[marks]

but you can not disown him outright in unbelief and remain saved.

Where do you come up with the idea that God's children could or would "disown" God? God is Who owns us. You don't have the rights of ownership to make such choices.

He bought you, that is, if you are His. What makes anyone think that they can go against God?

Much love!

 

[marks]

You may have gotten duped into Dispensationalism, but not me.

So does that mean you are building an ark and waiting for animals to show up? Or was that written for another person in another time?

Much love!

 

[marks]

The Holy Spirit is only given to the obedient born again:

Remember . . . Judas was sent out with the others, and they ALL returned with the same report, that they all did these miracles. But we know that Judas was not saved.

Didn't Judas partake of the Holy Spirit?

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

Rom 11:20, Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21, For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22, Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Jer 32:38, And they shall be my people, and I will be their God:
Jer 32:39, And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them:
Jer 32:40, And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

Psa 19:9, The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.

 

[justbyfaith]

1Jo 3:6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Jo 2:17, And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

The one who doeth the will of the Lord "sinneth not" for ever.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Where do you come up with the idea that God's children could or would "disown" God? God is Who owns us.

"If we disown him, he will also disown us" 2 Timothy 2:12​

I think the more intimately you know Christ the less likely you will disown him. Weak believers fall away, too, not just fake believers. But you are illustrating the very point this will all lead to. The osas argument comes down to whether or not a true believer can stop believing or not. But I say, what does it matter? I mean, if you're in unbelief what does it matter if you ever really believed or stopped believing, lol? Either way you're lost. So I say, just stick with what the Bible says.....keep believing so you will be saved when Jesus comes back. And leave the osas argument to dwell among the curious but unimportant doctrines of Christianity.