Once Saved Always Saved

[Ferris Bueller]

God is Who owns us. You don't have the rights of ownership to make such choices.

Did God own Adam and Eve?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

He bought you, that is, if you are His. What makes anyone think that they can go against God?

I'm pretty sure real believers can choose to not believe anymore. But I also think a believer can get to the point that they aren't going back no matter what. And that's why the church has such difficulty with this not so important issue about osas in Christianity. The church is always trying to draw hard and fast lines where hard and fast lines do not exist and it just creates division and strife. The important thing is that you seek to become a believer for whom going back is not even on your spiritual radar. Let's live for and encourage each other in what's important—believing to the very end.

 

[101G]

I already refuted your claim. Now we are just doing laps on ground already covered.

thought so, no rebuttal.

101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Taken]

@Taken

You are mixed up.

The first quote was not yours, and:

I never replied to the quoted statements you brought up.

I quoted your statements regarding portions of Hebrews 10 that you said were directed exclusively at Israel.

Look at my post again...

Your Post 130...
After you called attention to my name... you said:

You may have gotten duped into Dispensationalism,

Talking to me?

As I said...
The Apostles were sent to the Jews, first. then all Tribes.

Matt 10:5 - 6
[5] These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
[6] But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

So does that mean you are building an ark and waiting for animals to show up? Or was that written for another person in another time?

Well, technically, sir, none of the Bible was written to anyone outside its contemporaries (if you want to play that game).

 

[marks]

Did God own Adam and Eve?

?

Let's come back to that.

Ephesians 4:30 KJV
30) And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Can you break God's seal?

Who can go against God's claim of ownership?

Now . . . you've asked, did God own Adam and Eve?

God owns the earth and all that is in it.

So here's a question, did God seal Adam and Eve unto the day of redemption?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Well, technically, sir, none of the Bible was written to anyone outside its contemporaries (if you want to play that game).

What I'm pointing out is that God had a certain program for certain people that did not apply to other people, as God had a different program for them.

So that Adam and Eve were to not eat from THAT tree, and instead, to fellowship with God and tend the garden.

Noah was to build a boat for the saving of the few.

Moses gave Law to Israel, but not the other nations.

It goes on like that.

We are to trust in Jesus' saving work on the cross.

But we don't offer animal sacrifices, we don't avoid the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and so forth.

It's not a game.

Dispensationalism is simply a word to describe this different programs for different people. It's all about faith in God. But it plays out in different ways.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I think the more intimately you know Christ the less likely you will disown him.

How do you "disown" the One Who owns you? I don't think property has the option to disown their owner.

My cat may turn on me, but he's still my cat. And we are much more that pet cats to God. We are His creation, and we've become His rescued prize. It's not about you or me. It's about Him.

Much love!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

But we know that Judas was not saved.

NONE OF THE APOSTLES WERE SAVED UNTIL THEY BELIEVED THE RESURRECTION.

AND THE HOLY GHOST WAS NOT SENT UNTIL AFTER THE RESURRECTION.

So you are wrong on both accounts.

For salvation comes by believing in Christ’s resurrection. For if Christ be not raised:

1 Corinthians 15:17
...your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

And furthermore, the Holy Ghost was not sent UNTIL this event:

Acts 2:3-4
[3] And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. [4] And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Judas had long hanged himself before salvation or the Holy Ghost were available to him.

 

[marks]

But I say, what does it matter?

What does it matter?

If you think you may become lost again after being saved, you've put the responsibility for "remaining saved" on yourself. You are trusting or at least hoping you'll be able pull it off.

But if you know that you are forever secure in God, that you've been born His beloved child, and He will never let you go, you are free to walk confidently, which is just another word for faith.

What I've found is that this "what does it matter" POV, it matters tremendously. Either we walk in faith, trusting Him, or we are walking by sight, looking to ourselves.

Much love!

 

[amigo de christo]

What's actually sad is that someone can straight up deny the Word of God when it plainly says that there is a sin a man can commit where it's impossible for him to be renewed unto repentance.

This is a person who was "made partaker of the Holy Spirit" and has "fallen away."

It is plainly denied here by many!

Instead of denying it, we should be discussing how this happened and why! More importantly, how we can avoid it!

And a good example of this is the message to ephesus .
GOD told that church it once had GOOD FAITH , GOOD LOVE , but had FALLEN from that
and that if it repented not and came back to that FAITH , that LOVE It had at THE FIRST , HE was gonna put out its candle .
And proverbs makes it plain the candle of the wicked shall be put out .
But notice GOD was not talking to folks who never had the faith and love HE desired . HE WAS TRYING to warn them
TO COME BACK TO that LOVE they had AT FIRST .
ITS Like paul said . We are made partakers of CHRIST , IF WE HOLD our confidence we had at first , at the beginning
FIRM TO THE END . FIRM TO THE END.
YES INDEED folks can fall away and if they are overcome , their end is worse than had they never KNOWN HIM .
WHICH means they actually did know . Its clear . peter even says and were made PARTAKERS of the HOLY GHOST
and then FALL AWAY and dont return , THEIR END IS WORSE .

 

[marks]

NONE OF THE APOSTLES WERE SAVED UNTIL THEY BELIEVED RESURRECTION.

AND THE HOLY GHOST WAS NOT SENT UNTIL AFTER THE RESURRECTION.

So you are wrong on both accounts.

How do you suppose Judas cast out demons, and healed people?

Just wondering . . .

Much love!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

How do you suppose Judas cast out demons, and healed people?

By the Spirit, not the HOLY Spirit:

John 7:39
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given ; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

 

[amigo de christo]

Even paul reminded timothy who was over the church of ephesus of the same thing .
THEY have LEFT the FAITH THEY HAD AT FIRST . AT FIRST . AT FIRST
Turned aside after satan .
ITS WHY PETER warns . HE says SEEING YOU KNOW THESE THINGS , YOU KNOW THE TRUTH
you too better still beware lest you go after the error of the wicked and fall from your own steadfastness .
JESUS Said it best . AND THIS HE SAID TO THOSE WHO ALREADY BELEIVED ON HIM .
IF YE continue in ME , the truth shall set you free .
IF a man CONTINUES NOT IN ME , WHICH MEAN THEY KNEW HIM , then he is cast out .
EVEN paul knew it . IF YOU CONTINUE IN HIS GOODNESS otherwise ye shall be cast out .
AND MANY OTHER verses i can bring .
TIME to get wise in those bibles and learn THAT JESUS .

 

[Michiah-Imla]

What I'm pointing out is that God had a certain program for certain people that did not apply to other people, as God had a different program for them.

The only “program” that God cares about is STOP SINNING AND STOP DOING EVIL!

Every thing else is secondary to that.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
[16] ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

So when someone comes along and tries to limit me to partial scriptures, I immediately ignore them from the start.

 

[marks]

I'm pretty sure real believers can choose to not believe anymore.

Even if that were true, which I don't think it is . . . if God says He's sealed you unto the day of redemption, who are you to break that seal?

Much love!

 

[Taken]

I'm pretty sure real believers can choose to not believe anymore.

Believer...sure. Any man listening HEARING believing can STOP believing.
^ this man is Still Dead in his sins, and can be influenced by wicked men and Demon spirits.

Converted men? No. They Are KEPT in belief by Gods Power.

When a man Believes in his heart and Confesses his Heartful Belief....that man IS freely and assuredly Asking God to keep that man in faithfulness to The Lord God Forever.

The only way that ^ can FAIL, is IF there is a Power Greater than God.

Confusion arises when people do not expresses precisely the facts.

Believer does not mean Converted.
Christian does not mean Converted.

* Converted means, forgiven, soul Restored (Saved), spirit Quickened (Born Again)...
Once that occurs Nothing whatsoever can undo that.
* That person is Forever Free from committing Sin (which means that man can never again;
Not believe in the Lord God,
Not be unfaithful to the Lord God.
Never again Stand Against God.

It is not "as ridiculous claims have been said";
"A license to sin".

Men in Christ do not Sin.
Not Against God...(as his power prevents that)
Not Against other men.

Men can, and absolutely DO "Trespass Against eachother ...lie to, cheat, gossip about, steal from, etc.....and men who do so are Scripturally Taught to settle the matter, rightly, forgive one another their trespasses (also called debts), pay back what you owe, and ask forgiveness ....And oops...
The consequence for trespassing Against another, IS the Trespassers Burden to Bear.
A man cheats on his wife...may lose his wife, home, kids...
A man who steals from his employer...may lose his job...

Trespassing has consequences.

Gal 6
[5] For every man shall bear his own burden.

When people Trespass and enter the US illegally?
Who should bear their burden, they no shelter, food, money?

God answered. Gal 6:5

The US govt has allocated nearly 4.5 BILLION dollars for Illegal Aliens.
Children without Adults have been crammed into plastic sheeted shelters and will soon be put in hotels at $74,000 Cost each.

Does the US Government PRODUCE some phenomenal product to pay for their...ungodly ideas? No.
people who are being Trespassed Against will be expected to pay for the Unlawful Trespassers.

Sure Biden is a practicing Christian, as he claims....not!

 

[marks]

it just creates division and strife.

This doctine does not create division. Disbelief and poor manners do, I think.

Let's live for and encourage each other in what's important—believing to the very end.

And how do you propose to do that? By telling people that if you don't, you'll be sent to hell! So you'd better keep believing!

And you've put it all on you. How encouraging is that?

Meanwhile, it's all misdirected effort. Rather than pushing ourselves to be "good" so we can "stay saved", our real effort should be in resting, in serving, in loving, as a fountain of living water.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The only “program” that God cares about is STOP SINNING AND STOP DOING EVIL!

Every thing else is secondary to that.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
[16] ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

So when someone comes along and tries to limit me to partial scriptures, I immediately ignore them from the start.

I'm not trying to limit you to anything. And it doesn't go without noticing that you didn't respond to my post.

I gave particulars, you dismiss it with generalities.

Much love!

 

[Taken]

The doctrinal belief of " once saved always saved" is not scriptural...

Nope.
Converted Once.
For ever Alive with God.

John 6:
[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
[58] This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

John 14:
[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Heb 10:
[12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever THEM that ARE Sanctified.

1 Pet 1:
23] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

2 John 1:
[2] For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever.