Once Saved, Always Saved?

[Titus]

He does if that man goes on to rebel against Him and will be not be reformed.

“And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it; If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.” (Jeremiah 18:9-10)

Hello,

God will keep His promise to give those who have believed and obeyed the gospel eternal life.
If He breaks His promise of salvation, then we have no assurance of salvation.

Grace is in the new covenant of Christ.

If we break the contract, we will no longer be covered by Jesus' covenant.
God does not break His covenants. Man does by his free will.

Psalm 89:34,
My covenant I will not break, Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.

-38 but you have cast off and abhorred, You have been furious with Your anointed.
-39 You have renounced the covenant of Your servant; you have profained his crown by casting it to the ground.

God will not renounce His covenant with His servants.
You see verse 34?
It teaches God will not break His covenant.

But who will?
Mankind, those who made a covenant with God will renounce their contract.

God keeps His promises, thank God!

I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.” (Jeremiah 18:9-10)

God does not "repent"
Not the way man "repents"
Not the same meaning.

Numbers 23:19,
God is not a man that He should lie,
Nor a son of man that He should repent.
Has He said and will not He not do?
Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

Jeremiah 18:9-10,
Is not teaching God will break His promises.

Repentance is part of His original plan with the jews.
If they change, then His plan will change.

That is the agreement.

It was never that he would only bless them unconditionally.
God will bless them if they obey,
But if they change their minds,
Then God changes /repents and His agreement to not bless them Is still the original plan.
Gods plan was told to them, it will change if they do not obey.

There never was a promise broken by God.
They agreed that it would change if they did not obey.

Listen to the conditions of
Gods plan.

Jeremiah 18:8,
-IF (what God will do will change based on our choices) that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil. I will relent of the disaster that I thought to bring on them.

Now again His plan changes based on our choices.
This is the orginal agreement with Israel.
God never broke His promise.

Jeremiah 18:10,
-IF (conditional based on what the Jews choose to do) it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will relent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it.

Jeremiah proves God does not break His covenant, His promises.

Man breaks his contract with God.
We do not keep our promises.

 

[Titus]

Hm. No. God's grace has always been there.

I am ONLY speaking of new covenant christians!
Yes, God kept His old covenant with the Jews also.
Yes, Gods grace is in the old testament also.
That is not the subject I was discussing.

 

[Titus]

Not God's. Once we are sealed by God in the Spirit, that cannot be broken. Nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord (Romans 8:39).

Nothing anyone else or anything can cause God to break His seal with His elect.
But we can break the seal.

If you're right.
We have no freewill,
Everyone is Gods puppets on strings.
We have no freewill to leave God.
God forces us to live for Him.
God forces us to be servants of His for all eternity.

Christians can choose to no longer desire to be Gods servant.
Some go back to being the servants of satan.
John 8:34,
Jesus answered them,
Most assuredly I say to you, whoever commits sin is a servant of sin.
No Christian that practices sin is still a servant of Christ.
Freewill, God allows us to sin against Him.
Without repentance 1John 1:9.
Christians will loose salvation.

Sin breaks the new covenant. No longer covered by Gods grace when we willfully sin and do not repent,
1John 2:3-5

 

[Titus]

Not God's. Once we are sealed by God in the Spirit, that cannot be broken. Nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord (Romans 8:39).

Gods seals in Revelation 6, were broken.
So you are wrong, Gods seals can be broken.

Do you not know that a seal is not designed to be unbreakable?
That is why it is a seal,

Revelation 6:1-17.
Who opened the seals?
The lamb of God ie Jesus.
God does open His seals.

-1 Now I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard one of the four creatures saying with a voice like thunder Come and see.

But the seal of salvation will not be opened by God.
We can open this seal of God. Freewill

 

[mailmandan]

We are not robots. You aren’t stuck in obedience because you have true biblical faith. That’s nonsense!

Or why is this written:

“Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:” (2 Peter 1:10)

And why must we:

“beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith” (2 Peter 1:5)

Because:

“if ye do these things, ye shall never fall” (2 Peter 1:10)

Once Saved Always Saved is so easily refuted with scripture that it’s mind boggling how it prevails in Christianity.

By cultivating the virtues listed in 2 Peter 1:5-7, believers can be sure that God has called them and elected them. These fruits will confirm it. Make sure you have been called and elected.

Romans 8:30 says, And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. All of them.

bébaios (an adjective, derived from bainō, "to walk where it is solid") – properly, solid (sure) enough to walk on; hence, firm, unshakable; (figuratively) absolutely dependable, giving guaranteed support (security, surety). To practice these qualities gives evidence of and assurance of salvation, though they are not the basis (or cause) of salvation. They are the effect. Cause of being saved (FAITH) effect of being saved (FRUIT). Those who are born of God practice righteousness and not sin (1 John 3:9-10).

For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ (vs. 8). For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins (vs. 9). What is the object of the forgetting? Is this forgetting temporary because this believer had fallen into error or does this lack of fruit exist because this person’s "cleansing" was merely an external reformation that did not come from a truly changed heart? The genuineness of their profession will be demonstrated as they express these virtues. These fruits confirm their divine source.

In verse 10, we are exhorted to give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall.

Proverbs 24:16 - For a righteous man may fall seven times and rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity.

ALL false religions and cults that teach salvation by works strongly oppose OSAS which has always been a major red flag for me.

 

[Titus]

By cultivating the virtues listed in 2 Peter 1:5-7, believers can be sure that God has called them and elected them. These fruits will confirm it. Make sure you have been called and elected.

Romans 8:30 says, And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. All of them.

bébaios (an adjective, derived from bainō, "to walk where it is solid") – properly, solid (sure) enough to walk on; hence, firm, unshakable; (figuratively) absolutely dependable, giving guaranteed support (security, surety). To practice these qualities gives evidence of and assurance of salvation, though they are not the basis (or cause) of salvation. They are the effect. Cause of being saved (FAITH) effect of being saved (FRUIT). Those who are born of God practice righteousness and not sin (1 John 3:9-10).

For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ (vs. 8). For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins (vs. 9). What is the object of the forgetting? Is this forgetting temporary because this believer had fallen into error or does this lack of fruit exist because this person’s "cleansing" was merely an external reformation that did not come from a truly changed heart? The genuineness of their profession will be demonstrated as they express these virtues. These fruits confirm their divine source.

In verse 10, we are exhorted to give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall.

Proverbs 24:16 - For a righteous man may fall seven times and rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity.

ALL false religions and cults that teach salvation by works strongly oppose OSAS which has always been a major red flag for me.

You need to give one Biblical example after the new covenant was in force, Hebrews 9:16-18.
That someone was saved by faith only and no obedience to God.
You cannot.
This disproves your false definition of saving faith being alone.

Since faith only has no fruit.
It has no evidence that it is genuine faith!
Therefore it proves itself by Danthemailman's own definition of not being true saving faith here,

James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead.

Danthemailman supposed saving faith has no fruit.
Danthemailman's supposed saving faith has no evidence.

Dan, himself says therefore it is dead!
Danthemailman teaches we are saved by a dead faith,
Then it comes to life after we are saved and it produces fruit(works),
Only then is our dead faith alone have evidence that we are saved.

Danthemailman's faith onlyism is full of contradictions.
It cannot be the true saving gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[Titus]

Danthemailman do you not know it is impossible for initial salvation to not have obedience involved?

1John 3:23-24.
We must OBEY the commandment to believe in Jesus Christ!
Or, we will not be saved.
Another contradiction in Dan's faith onlyism.
We are saved by Grace, faith and obedience in Jesus' gospel.

 

[mailmandan]

You need to give one Biblical example after the new covenant was in force, Hebrews 9:16-18.
That someone was saved by faith only and no obedience to God.
You cannot.
This disproves your false definition of saving faith being alone.

Since faith only has no fruit.
It has no evidence that it is genuine faith!
Therefore it proves itself by Danthemailman's own definition of not being true saving faith here,

Danthemailman supposed saving faith has no fruit.
Danthemailman's supposed saving faith has no evidence.

Dan, himself says therefore it is dead!
Danthemailman teaches we are saved by a dead faith,
Then it comes to life after we are saved and it produces fruit(works),
Only then is our dead faith alone have evidence that we are saved.

Danthemailman's faith onlyism is full of contradictions.
It cannot be the true saving gospel of Jesus Christ.

More confusion on your part and also more slander. I have thoroughly explained the relationship between faith and works and the gospel truth to you numerous times. If the truth is what you are looking for then you will find it in the multiple posts that I have shared with you. If accommodating your biased church doctrine and Campbellism gospel is the only thing you are interested in then you won't accept the truth no matter how many times that I share it with you.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

ALL false religions and cults that teach salvation by works strongly oppose OSAS which has always been a major red flag for me.

Justifying sin (Which is what OSAS does) and twisting or ignoring Scripture to fit OSAS have been major red flags for me.

For example: Many OSAS Proponents (who are not Hyper-Grace OSAS) seem to think that a little bit of sin is okay vs. doing a lot of sin. But it only took one sin by Adam for the Fall of mankind to happen and not many sins. Many OSAS folk (Who are not Hyper-Grace OSAS) think that 1 John 1:8 and Isaiah 64:6 are in reference to how the believer cannot stop sinning this side of Heaven (and this means that they must sin at some point the rest of their lives). So what exactly is this kind of sinning like? They never say. Do you sin many times a day? Do you sin several times a week? Do you sin every several months? What does that look like? A little bit of sin and not practicing sin could be defined differently by many people. There is a big tent for a person to justify sin here. For if a Christian murdered a person every ten or twenty years, would they be saved because they are not practicing that sin very often?

Besides, when you teach OSAS, how do you distinguish yourself from the Hyper Grace OSAS folks? You could both be patting each other on the back on OSAS but you each have your different understanding on what OSAS means. OSAS for the Hyper-Grace means you can sin as much as you want and you are still saved. But… do you believe a Christian can backslide into a life of sin and be saved while they are backslidden?

As for OSAS folk twisting Scripture:

The list is endless. Take for example: Philippians 2:12. They twist this verse to mean that it is not talking about fear as we understand this word even though the word trembling is in the same verse. It goes beyond the plain reading of this verse all to protect their precious pet doctrine of OSAS. This is eisegesis and not exegesis. OSAS folk also paint broad brush stroke false remarks over tons of verses presented; For example: When you present verses that refute OSAS, they will say that all of them are dealing with the unbeliever. This is just childish and they are not using the context to prove their case at all. They also come up with imaginative theories in the text that does not exist so as to defend OSAS. You did this with the Parable of the Talents. You added to the text that the unprofitable servant was unconverted when the parable does not specifically say that. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that unbelievers are servants of GOD. Sure, a person can start off as a servant of God, but they can later fall away and become an unprofitable servant. A person can start off believing and then later stop believing.
God does not keep a gun pointed to their head to be good and nor does He make you a slave to be a good guy to enter Heaven. For your own free will to sin proves you are not entirely under God’s control.

In my opinion, if OSAS was true (not that it ever could be because it does not align with Scripture), a person would have to be forced by GOD to walk perfectly after their one time decision in choosing Jesus Christ.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To all:

The difference between the OSAS Christian and the Bible believing Christian is that the true man of God will not justify sin, but he will seek to battle, and fight to overcome the kind of sin that leads to spiritual death in this life. The OSAS Christian treats sin like a fluffy kitten and thinks that they are not separated from God when they sin. They believe they are forgiven of their future sins. So there is no need for real change whether they sin on rare occasion or they sin a lot. But with the man of God, he seeks to put evil down for good and glorify GOD and give Him the glory rather than let the works of the devil (sin) rule in their life. For they know that their life is on the line and they know God cannot agree with their sin.

Romans 6:16 says,
“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?”

OSAS folks think they are slaves to sin in the fact that they will all say that they cannot stop sinning this side of Heaven (even though they say, “I don’t practice sin” - whatever that means or as if that really changes anything). They love to prove this point by their false interpretation on 1 John 1:8 and Isaiah 64:6. But what they fail to realize is that if they are a slave to sin in this life, they are a slave to a different master than God. I know that sounds harsh, and I don’t mean to upset anyone here. It’s just what I believe is the truth.

Jesus states:

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.” (John 8:34).

“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.” (John 8:44).

“He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.” (John 8:47).

Meaning, if one sins, they are a servant or slave to their sin. In context: Jesus says that the lusts of a person who is slave to their sin is doing lusts, and they are of their father the devil. In context: Jesus says that he that is of God hears (obeys) God’s words. Obviously somebody who is justifying a little bit of sin (even by saying that they cannot stop sinning this side of Heaven - despite their claims that they are not practicing sin), I believe they are not of God because they have to obey God to be of Him. Partially obeying God is not obeying God. That would be a lukewarm church. Now, an OSAS Christian today may have started off correctly (not thinking they could justify sin), but when they learned of the false doctrine of OSAS… then they felt a weight lifted off their shoulders that they could live for themselves and their sin on some level, and yet have their ticket to Heaven, too. But this is not freedom, though. They fell for a deception or trap. It’s slavery to sin, and if a person justifies sin, their master is… the devil. To have your master be GOD, you have to obey GOD and not justify sin.

 

[Titus]

More confusion on your part and also more slander. I have thoroughly explained the relationship between faith and works and the l gospel truth to you numerous times. If the truth is what you are looking for then you will find it in the multiple posts that I shared with you. If accommodating your "works based" false Campbellism gospel is the only thing you are interested in then you won't accept the truth no matter how many times that I share it with you.

That sad you would stoop so low to make false accusations Danthemailman.
Now that you have attacked my character and are purposely hurting my reputation.
You need to give evidence of your accusations.

Where have I slandered you?

I know the gospel it is obvious it requires obedience.
1John 3:23-24.
Also Mark 16:15-16.
Jesus commands obedience to the gospel Sir.

2Thessalonians 1:8,
In flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[PinSeeker]

Gods seals in Revelation 6, were broken.

Um, no, Titus, they were opened. If you want to say broken, then 'broken' in the sense of finally revealed. This is Revelation we're talking about, for goodness's sake, the root word of 'revelation' being 'reveal.' They were not broken as if they were rendered null and void or something. My goodness. Surely that's not what you're insinuating. The discussion is about God's promises, really, and in the same sense, they will be kept and not broken.

So you are wrong, Gods seals can be broken. Do you not know that a seal is not designed to be unbreakable?

They are not designed to be broken in the sense of being no longer of any account or obsolete or disregarded. God's seal lasts and protects and is in full affect until it is no longer needed, at which point it is opened.

Revelation 6:1-17.
Who opened the seals?
The lamb of God ie Jesus.
God does open His seals.

Agreed. You just refuted yourself, here, by the way.

But the seal of eternal life will not be opened by God. We can open this seal of God. Freewill

LOL! You just literally said, God opens His seals! I mean, look at your own post, for goodness sake: "God does open His seals." Those are literally your exact words! Wow. No, we cannot open any seal of God. Our free will ~ which we do have, by the way; don't be thinking that John Calvin or any Calvinist worth his salt ever did or ever will assert or suggest otherwise ~ has absolutely nothing to do with any of this.

This post of yours was just... astounding... astoundingly self-contradictive and simplistic, and ill-informed, and... any number of bad things.

Grace and peace.

 

[PinSeeker]

The difference between the OSAS Christian and the Bible believing Christian is that the true man of God will not justify sin, but he will seek to battle, and fight to overcome the kind of sin that leads to spiritual death in this life.

Yep, stop right there. The doctrine of "OSAS," properly understood, does not trample on in any way the fact that sin cannot... is not to be... justified (as if that were even possible) sin in any way. And yes, the heart-regenerate Christian will certainly struggle against, battle, and fight to overcome all kinds of sin. Yeah, if a Christian is not struggling against sin, then it might be reason to question his/her Christianity, or at least the depth of it. It is God Who justifies, so no one can bring any charge against His elect (Romans 8:33). And this is not meant to say that God somehow "justifies sin," but rather He justifies people even while they are yet dead in sin ~ this is His mercy and compassion ~ based on His will and Christ's work of redemption on the cross.

The OSAS Christian treats sin like a fluffy kitten...

Pffft. Not the right "OSAS Christians"! But seriously. Again, what so many are labeling "OSAS" is really antinomianism, and they don't even realize it. And that's why they "think" along the same lines you are "thinking" along here.

They believe they are forgiven of their future sins.

My goodness. Okay, yet again, "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." This is 1 John 1:8-9, and is true yesterday, today, and forever... well, until Jesus comes back, because then there will be no more sin, so then nothing to confess, and nothing to be forgiven of.

Okay, that's enough. Grace and peace to you.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

To all:

When encountered with the many verses that refute OSAS, the OSAS Proponent will throw aside these many verses as referring to unbelievers and not believers (out of context) in order to protect their preferred pet doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved.

Here is a good article for any truth seeker.

Scriptures that prove OSAS is not the truth at all.

It will explain the false misunderstandings or claims of OSAS proponents misuse of Scripture when they are faced with verses that refute OSAS.
I would encourage any believer fighting against OSAS to read this article. The grammar is not always the best, but they provide some great explanations that defend the truth of God’s Word in what it plainly says. It explains away many of the OSAS Proponents false misunderstandings on verses that they believe is in reference to unbelievers.

Any Scriptures that are posted by you or anybody else that might “appear” to refute the Truth Of OSAS has either one one or two problems.....they are either taken out of context or else the verse is not talking to or about Believers.....every time.....no exceptions.....take it to the bank....

 

[Truman]

"... the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life ..." "... by grace are ye saved ..." Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8

Salvation from the death sentence is God’s gift, because God sent his own son to bear the death penalty for man. (John 3:16) But doesn’t salvation require the cooperation of the individual? Yes. For instance, the exercise of faith is essential. "... if we believe on him ... being justified by faith ..." "... the just shall live by faith." - - Romans 4:24; 5:10; Gal 3:11

The Apostle James shows that the sincerity of our faith must be demonstrated by our efforts at good works. This is why he says, "... by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24) This does not mean that God requires perfect works- - Paul shows that we are not capable of that. (Romans 3:20; 2:16, 3:11) But it does mean that we must try as much as possible to do those things that God would be pleased with. "Faith without works is dead." - - James 2:26

During this age God is not dealing with the world in general. He is preparing the Church class for a glorious reward. They are to be joined with Christ Jesus, and to share both his throne of dominion and his very nature- - the divine nature. (Acts 15:4; Room. 2:7) But before any will be raised to such a position of glory and honor, God wishes to see a character crystallized in earnest loyalty. Of Jesus it was written, "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered ..." (Hebrews 5:8) Each of Christ’s followers are also to have their obedience proved. We are to search our minds and hearts to see that they are kept in a proper attitude of devotion. The Apostle John said: "Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward." - - 2 John 8

One inference of this counsel is that some will receive less than the full reward of divine nature. Some will be "overcharged with the cares of this life." Some will carelessly build with "wood, hay and stubble" rather than "gold, silver, and precious stones." (1 Corinthians 3:15) But if their hearts are loyal, God will still care for these. "If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." (1 Corinthians 3:12) For some this will mean deliverance "unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." - - 1 Corinthians 5:5

Some will fall. From other scriptures we learn that it is possible for some to come to a knowledge of the Lord, and then to willfully neglect the favor of God and become estranged from Him. To express and exercise faith in Him, and later to lose it. To receive a standing before God through faith in the blood of Jesus, and to fall. The vital, living and quickening faith of a believer can turn sour. Thus, the warning of Hebrews 10:38: "Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him ..." Jesus said, "No man having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." - - Luke 9:62

The condition of heart that would completely turn from God after having believed and received of the Holy Spirit, would make future repentance impossible. Read carefully Paul’s words in Hebrews 6:4- 6:

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted of the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance ..." ​

The warning of Hebrews 10:29 is to those who have at one time been sanctified.

"Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?" ​

This condition, though infrequent, is nevertheless a real danger. What of such? The Apostle Peter, in chapter two of his second epistle, speaking of such a class, says: "... if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning." (2 Peter 2:20) These, he says, "have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam ... who loved the wages of unrighteousness." - - 2 Peter 2:15 Peter says that for them "the mist of darkness (the oblivion of death) is reserved for ever." (2 Peter 2:17) "... these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, ... shall utterly perish in their own corruption." - - 2 Peter 2:12

How can this be? Doesn’t Romans 8:35- 39 teach that nothing and nobody can "separate us from the love of God"? True, none of the distresses which he mentions there can separate us- - but we can separate ourselves by an attitude of faithlessness and carelessness leading to heart disloyalty and rebellion. Paul’s discussion is intended to be an assurance to all who will keep their hearts. Even the Apostle Paul himself said, "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." (1 Corinthians 9:27) See Romans 11:21.

In addition to these warnings, we have instruction to "Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Proverbs 4:23) And Paul speaks of those "... who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory, honor, and immortality. ..." (Romans 2:7) For, in the full sense, "He that endureth to the end shall be saved." - - Matthew 10:22; 24:13

Faithful unto death Jesus forewarned that the battle of a Christian would not be easy. The world will taunt and jeer. "If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?" (Matthew 10:25) "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake ..." (Matthew 10:22) From our own flesh will come difficult enticements of pride and lust. (Romns 7:18- 24) And Satan, as a "roaring lion" (1 Peter 5:8), will at every opportunity seek to make shipwreck of our faith.

Love for the Lord, and appreciation of the great price that secures our redemption, will inspire our devotion. Only such love will hold fast to the promise, "Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10) BUT, "Hold fast that which thou hast, that no man take thy crown ..."- Revelation 3:11

One day, the Lord spoke to me (I heard His voice), "I will never leave you nor forsake you." I believe Him. If anyone has a conniption fit over that, then that's their business.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Any Scriptures that are posted… that might “appear” to refute the Truth Of OSAS… are either taken out of context or else the verse is not talking to or about Believers.....every time.....no exceptions.....take it to the bank....

I am rubber and you are glue; whatever you say bounces off me and sticks on you!

 

[farouk]

One day, the Lord spoke to me (I heard His voice), "I will never leave you nor forsake you." I believe Him. If anyone has a conniption fit over that, then that's their business.

Great post, @Truman .

Romans 8.38-39 is strong evidence of the believer's security in Christ.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I am rubber and you are glue; whatever you say bounces off me and sticks on you!

I recognize that verse !.....It’s from the New Testament ! ( where? Somewhere in the back, I think....) lol......

 

[Titus]

One of the most brilliant men that ever lived was Stephen Hawking.
He was an atheist.
No amount of intelligence helped him to see the obvious.
That God exists.

Am I too simplistic for you, Pinseeker?

Maybe, I should make my posts more difficult to understand.
I'm sure that will benefit those that need to learn.

You missed the point of my use of Revelation 6:1-12.

It is quite simple! How did you not understand?

You teach the seal in Ephesians 1:13 cannot be broken.
This seal is a seal!
You ever seen a wax seal on a letter?

Are those seals not made to be broken?
Are those seals not made to be opened?

Seals can be broken/opened.

Revelation chapter 6 proves seals are not as you teach.
Something that cannot be broken/opened.

But the seals in Revelation are not the same seal in Ephesians.
Did you notice they are not the same seal?

Ephesians 1:13 is the seal of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit's seal is to the saved Christian.
This seal is a promise from God.

What is this promise?
Having obeyed the gospel by faith. We are promised salvation.

As I already proved with Revelation 6:1-12.
Seals can be opened.
That means a seal can be broken.

God will never break His promise with us. The gift of salvation is promised to us.

Being the nature of a seal.
We know that seal can be broken.

Not by God.
Not by the devil.
Not by other men.
Not by others sins.
Only by the one who has made a covenant with Jesus.

I love you Pinseeker.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Now, I will show you the perversion of your interpretation of Romans 10:4

"End" is telos in Greek. It does NOT mean "termination." It means "objective." The objective of the Law is being like the Messiah. The previous verse says, "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God."



Sorry, my supremely confused friend—-Romans 1-4 is describing Paul’s sincere desire to see his Jewish Brothers come to Salvation.....He applauds their Zeal , But he has to acknowledge that they are unable to overcome their ignorance about how to obtain the “ Righteousness Of God “.....The ONLY “ Righteousness” That They ( or you!) will ever know Is the * IMPUTED* Righteousness That is a GIFT , given to this that put their Total Trust in Jesus Plus Nothing to Save them....

God gave the Law to get you to “ close your mouth” When it comes to you having any Delusions that you can keep it.....Nobody can keep the Law perfectly....Even if you “ could” , you would find that you had been “ barking up the wrong tree” .....why? .....because “ By The Works Of The Law, NO FLESH will be Justified” .....Only Jesus kept the Law.....when it comes to Salvation ,Christ gets ALL the Glory and YOU get NONE ! It’s only your Sinful Pride That will not let you acknowledge this Truth....

If any man could keep the Law , Christ died in vain....The Law was given to “ take you by the hand “ and lead you to your Savior....Once that task is completed, you can set it aside....you now possess something infinitely superior to the Law to lead and guide you into a Life That pleases God—- The Holy Spirit.....start trusting in “Him” instead of you pathetic, pitiful SELF- RIGHTEOUS “ Performance”

You are making the same mistake that those Zealous But Ignorant Jewish Brothers Of Paul we’re making—— “ being Ignorant of God's Way to be Saved, they went about setting up their own way”.....God’s Way is “ Nothing But The Blood” , evidenced by one putting their Faith in the Gospel Found In 1Cor 15:1-4 and Nothing else to Save them....

Yes , the Law was given to show that you can’t keep it —— Again, it’s purpose was to get you to “ close your mouth” instead of bragging in your Self -Righteousness That you can keep it.....” Closing your Mouth “ is just a polite way to tell you to “ Shut Up” ......Some here and elsewhere have never experienced the First and Foremost Lesson to be taken from the Law — we must have First things first ——SHUT UP!