Once Saved, Always Saved?

[BloodBought 1953]

No, BB, Christ is saying this:

"46Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ but not do what I say?" Luke 6:46​

Let's read the rest of the discourse:

"46Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ but not do what I say? 47I will show you what he is like who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them: 48He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid his foundation on the rock. When the flood came, the torrent crashed against that house but could not shake it, because it was well built.d

49But the one who hears My words and does not act on them is like a man who built his house on ground without a foundation. The torrent crashed against that house, and immediately it fell—and great was its destruction!” Luke 6:46-49​

You are deluded if you think Jesus is congratulating people for sincerely confessing him as Lord and then not having the life to show that confession to really be sincere. See, a sincere confession that 'Jesus is Lord' means Jesus really is Lord of your life. That means you are submitting to him in obedience to his Lordship. Not submitting to his Lordship means your confession 'Jesus is Lord' is fake and that you are not really saved. Your gospel deceives people into thinking they are saved when they really may not be saved at all. Build in such a way as to get a reward, BB! Your gospel builds a bunch of fake converts into the building of God that won't make it through the coming judgement because it does not tell them the way the Bible says you know you are really saved and ready to stand before Jesus.

Unless Paul is a Liar , you KNOW that you are Saved because you Believe the Promise Of 1Cor15:1-4 ....the only reason you heard the Gospel and Believed it, as opposed to those that just heard it, is because The Holy Spirit “ opened your heart” to the reception of it ( check out the story of Lydia the Seller Of Purple In Acts)....
Your “submitting” is a wise idea—- it “can” follow Salvation and I believe that most Believers that have their New Hearts will go on to a Maturity that encompasses this Wise move on their part....it “Should” happen and I believe that in the vast majority of cases it “Will” happen! It’s great! “ I” myself did it ! It took me years as a Saved Believer to get there..... It was accomplished by guess what? I was LEAD to make that decision by the Holy Spirit that was already inside me and got there by TRUSTING —- NOT by Submitting...
Trust the Gospel First....That will have God putting His Holy Spirit IN you.... THAT is what gets you Saved....If That Holy Spirit hangs around long enough, the RESULT of that Spirit will very likely lead you to the Wisdom to Submitting......It SHOULD and probably WILL happen—- it just does not HAVE to to prove you are Saved..
The “ Foundation” That you speak Of * IS* Trusting and RESTING in Paul’s Gospel Of Pure Grace...l.
Remember ? “ It is by GRACE that you have been Saved” It does NOT say , “ By Submission you have been saved”......
You are putting the cart before the horse .....

This “ proof” that you keep wanting to see may not really show to you “ Fruit Inspectors” for years.....I’m sure many people didn’t think that BB was saved for a very long time...like the Corinthians, I was a very Carnal Christian ....but yet I was a Christian...a baby one, not nearly as wise as I was later was when I saw what a great idea submitting to Jesus was......I made Him my Lord , or Boss when I finally figured out he was much smarter than me and could run my life better than I could....Surrendering your Entire Life to Jesus is a very difficult place to arrive at...sometimes it takes time....and if it NEVER happens YOU are the Loser, but you are not Lost...It is the Ultimate in Wisdom...but one is not saved by Wisdom.....One is Saved by Trusting.....The “ Proof” that you Want to see was in my New Heart....God had His Proof....He could see my Heart....Sometimes the “ proof” Of one’s Salvation takes a little time to come out in a way that others might see....the fact that we also have that Old Sin Nature That needs to be tamed can obscure the new and good Hearts that we now possess...Luckily, God’s vision is not obscured....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Your number one problem is you don't listen. Works are the SIGN of salvation, not the procurer of salvation. Works SHOW that you really are relying on nothing but the blood for justification/salvation. No evidence of salvation means there is no salvation present to produce that evidence. Anybody can say Jesus is Lord, but only in the truly saved is Jesus Lord. That's why the obedience of Jesus' Lordship is the evidence that you are really saved. Lip service counts for nothing.

"‘This people honors Me with the lips, but their heart is kept far away from Me." Matthew 15:8

And why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I say? ...the one having heard and not having done is like to a man having built a house on the ground without a foundation, on which the stream burst, and immediately it fell, and the ruin of that house was great.” Luke 6:46-49​

The “Obedience” that counts is what the Bible calls “ The Obedience Of The Gospel” .....you ” obey” it by Believing it....you prove that you Believe it by RESTING in it as Hebrews warns....if you don’t rest in the Gospel you are in “ Disobedience and Unbelief” .....
It is true that “ lip service” means Nothing..... thank God that he does not look at lips—- He looks at the Heart.....My Heart is NOT “ far away” from God ....my Heart is right where it should be .....I Trust in God's Gospel That was revealed by Paul....The only “ Evidence” I Need is the Following—- if somebody ever asks me “ What think ye Of Christ?” and I respond that Jesus is Lord( God in the flesh —- NOT Jesus is Boss of my life ) I have provide all the Proof I need to in order to show that I am Saved......want a verse for that? “ If you will acknowledge ME before men, I will acknowledge YOU before My Father)......It satisfies God.....what satisfies you, I could not care less....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

...produces something. That something being the things that accompany salvation (Hebrews 6:9). That's the word of God you are denying.

These “ things” that “ should” accompany Salvation are proof Of nothing because they do not occur automatically—- as usual , you are quoting out of context...the whole point is to urge ALL of the Believers to do as others are doing....They are obeying “ The Law Of Christ” —— taking on the Burdens Of others ! Some were being “ slothful” or lazy In this regard and they were being advised to act like the diligent one’s —— not to be Lost or Saved—- but in order to Receive the full blessings of the Promises Of God....Being blessed by Gods Promises are the “ things” being referred to.....it’s the Reward for “ ministering to others” .......

 

[Johann]

I was LEAD to make that decision by the Holy Spirit that was already inside me and got there by TRUSTING —- NOT by Submitting...

See here... no quoting scriptures..hence miscommunication..trusting..not by submitting, can you provide scripture references as to why you made this statement?
J.

 

[Johann]

Being blessed by Gods Promises are the “ things” being referred to.....it’s the Reward for “ ministering to others” .......

I assume you have Mat. 25 as your scriptural support?
J.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I assume you have Mat. 25 as your scriptural support?
J.

The discussion was about Hebrews Chapter six ....

 

[Johann]

I think there will be LOTS of OSASers spending eternity with the Devil who made up the OSAS doctrine.

I hold that "once saved, always saved' is biblical for...


Eph_1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

..most here don't want to study these words in Greek or Hebrew and miss out greatly...for example..

Eph 1:13 ἐν In G1722 PREP ᾧ Whom G3739 R-DSM καὶ Also G2532 CONJ ὑμεῖς Ye, G5210 P-2NP ἀκούσαντες Having Heard G191 V-AAP-NPM τὸν The G3588 T-ASM λόγον Word G3056 N-ASM τῆς Of The G3588 T-GSF ἀληθείας Truth, G225 N-GSF τὸ The G3588 T-ASN εὐαγγέλιον Glad Tidings G2098 N-ASN τῆς G3588 T-GSF σωτηρίας G4991 N-GSF ὑμῶν Of Your Salvation G5216 P-2GP ἐν In G1722 PREP ᾧ Whom G3739 R-DSM καὶ Also, G2532 CONJ πιστεύσαντες Having Believed, G4100 V-AAP-NPM ἐσφραγίσθητε Ye Were Sealed G4972 V-API-2P τῷ With The G3588 T-DSN πνεύματι Spirit G4151 N-DSN τῆς G3588 T-GSF ἐπαγγελίας Of Promise G1860 N-GSF τῷ The G3588 T-DSN ἁγίῳ Holy, G40 A-DSN

Now, make a study on this and then tell me, once you are sealed with the Holy Spirit, that somehow you can be "Unsealed?"

2Ti_2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.


Eph_4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

...here, we can grieve the Holy Spirit, does it mean He, not "it" will leave us?
Absolutely not!

I have this mental picture when the Lord comes "Christians" will still slogging at each other, no unity among the brethren...what then?
J.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

See here... no quoting scriptures..hence miscommunication..trusting..not by submitting, can you provide scripture references as to why you made this statement?
J.

“ Submitting” is a good work , but nevertheless it is a work —- a Work Of Will - Power and self - control ....you would have to “ work” at knowing all the rules and then work your best to see that you do not break any of them.....always try to behave and do your best....just realize it doesn’t Save you...

Want Scripture? “ It is by GRACE that you have been Saved and NOT by WORKS—— lest a man would have something to BOAST about”

If one is “ boasting “ about Anything other than the Shed Blood Of Christ come Judgement Day, That person will be told to “ Depart” ......count on it.

 

[Johann]

The discussion was about Hebrews Chapter six ....

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.

..and yet, there is no unity among the members on these very doctrines, would you agree?
What does it mean to "go on unto perfection?"
J.

 

[Johann]

Want Scripture? “ It is by GRACE that you have been Saved and NOT by WORKS—— lest a man would have something to BOAST about”

What about faith?
Would you say that is a work?
J.

 

[Johann]

What about faith?
Would you say that is a work?

2Co_8:7 Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also.

What is grace?
J.

 

[Johann]

“ Submitting” is a good work ,

Jas_4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

ὑποτάγητε


Part of Speech: Verb
Tense: second Aorist
Voice: Passive
Mood: iMperative
Person: second [you+]
Number: Plural

Are the Imperatives recorded in the Scriptures "a work?"

And obedience?

J.

 

[Johann]

These “ things” that “ should” accompany Salvation are proof Of nothing because they do not occur automatically

Heb 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
Heb 6:10 For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.


Heb_6:10 "so as to forget your work" God will judge fairly based on
1. the book of life (cf. Exo_32:32-33; Psa_69:28; Dan_12:1; Luk_10:20; Php_4:3; Heb_12:23; Rev_3:5; Rev_13:8; Rev_17:8; Rev_20:12; Rev_20:15; Rev_21:27)
2. the book of deeds (cf. Psa_56:8; Psa_139:16; Isa_65:6; Mal_3:16; Mat_25:31-46; Gal_6:7)

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:


Heb_6:11 "full assurance" Notice this is related to lifestyle action (cf. James, 1 Peter, and 1 John). Assurance is not primarily a doctrine to affirm, but a life to live (cf. Matthew 7).
"until the end" Perseverance is as true a biblical doctrine as security. By their fruits you shall know them (cf. Matthew 7; Jas_2:14-26).

Praise our Lord Christ Jesus that we are saved by grace but, there IS work to be done and to redeem the time for time is short.
"Resting" in Christ does not mean a cessation of good works done in the sphere of the Holy Spirit. like sanctification it is progressive and we have not attained to absolute perfection yet as we are still entombed in this body of flesh.
J.

 

[Johann]

I think there will be LOTS of OSASers spending eternity with the Devil who made up the OSAS doctrine.

Please elaborate in a concise manner, with scriptures and not with a "I think" as to why you believe this..there are open and closed questions and answers.
J.

 

[Johann]

He will “raise it [the body complete, the 144,000] up again at the last day.”

That's it.
I read till the "144,000" and stopped.


Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Shalom to you, I prefer to be a lone pilgrim following my Lord and savior Christ Jesus.
J.

 

[Johann]

If No will (Pinseekers teaching) then no ability to do His will.
This verse alone proves the Bible teaches all have freewill.

Yeah, preach it brother, time is short.
J.

 

[Johann]

Does John 6:37 Teach Calvinist “Predestination”?
By Wayne Jackson

“Please explain John 6:37. Who are those ‘given’ to Christ? Does this mean that they were selected by God before the foundation of the world, and are ‘elected’ — irrespective of their personal obedience?”

The passage under consideration reads as follows:

“All of those whom the Father gives me shall come unto me; and him who comes to me I will in no wise cast out.”

First, the Bible student needs to remind himself of this premise.The Scriptures are the inspired word of God (1 Thes. 2:13; 2 Tim. 3:16-17).Coming, then, from Jehovah as the ultimate source, they do not contradict themselves; instead, they are perfectly harmonious (Dt. 32:4; 1 Cor. 14:33a).When one encounters a passage, therefore, that may appear to conflict with plain-spoken texts contained elsewhere in Scripture, he must look carefully at the more obscure text and determine if there is a reasonable way to bring it into harmony with the other.

Having said that, let us further emphasize this point. No sacred text must be viewed in any way that would negate the following fundamental truths.

(1) Man has been granted free will (Mt. 23:37b; Jn. 5:39; 7:17; Rev. 22:17).

(2) His salvation is dependent upon his personal acceptance of divine grace, in obedience to the requirements of the gospel of Christ (2 Thes. 1:7-9; Heb. 5:8-9; 1 Pet. 4:17).

To suggest that God, before the world’s foundation, chose certain ones to be saved, and others to be lost, independent of a personal reception of truth, is a doctrine that cannot be sustained by the Scriptures — regardless of the number of sincere people who subscribe to it.

There are several crucial questions that must be addressed in connection with John 6:37.
--When did the “giving” of certain people to the Son take place?
--In what sense does the Father “give” these people to his Son?
--What relationship does the “giving” bear to their “coming” to him?
--And, what is the significance of the promise, “I will in no wise cast out”?

Let us take each of these in order.

(3) When did the “giving” take place? The idea that believers were unconditionally “given” to Christ, in the eternal counsel of God before the foundation of the world, is negated by this very passage. The verb “gives” (didosin) is a present tense form, indicating action in progress; the Father, at that very time, was in the process of giving certain ones to his Son. This passage cannot possibly be employed, then, to establish a “done-deal” gift back in pre-world eternity.As Reynolds noted, “‘The giving’ implies a present activity of grace, not a foregone conclusion” (17, p. 201).

(4) In what sense did God “give” people to his Son? The terms “gift” and “given” are frequently employed idiomatically in the Scriptures to denote divine favor as expressed in Heaven’s redemptive work on man’s behalf — without there being any inclination of an “unconditional election.”

For example, David prophesied that Jehovah would “give” the “nations” (Gentiles) to Christ as an inheritance (Psa. 2:8; cf. Acts 4:25-26). Surely no one will contend that all Gentiles were unconditionally predestined to salvation irrespective of their response to divine truth. Even the most cursory examination of the book of Acts, from chapter 10 onward, reveals that the Gentiles were admitted into redemptive favor by yielding to the requirements of the gospel. Salvation was not as a consequence of an eternal decree independent of human obedience (cf. Acts 10:34-35,43; 11:14; 15:8-9; 1 Pet. 1:22-23).

(5) What relationship is there between the “giving” and the “coming” in John 6:37? There is a significant connection. The “giving” represents what God has provided in the great plan of human salvation; the “coming” represents the acceptation of that plan as manifested in the sinner’s obedience.

The subsequent context affords a wonderful illustration of this — with slightly different imagery, but with corresponding thought.Note the language of verses 44-45.

“No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall all be taught of God. Every one who has heard from the Father, and has learned, comes unto me.”

In this passage, God’s “drawing” is parallel to his “giving” of verse 37.And yet, clearly in vv. 44-45 the drawing is accomplished by hearing his word, learning, and coming to the Lord.Jehovah provides the redemptive information, but humanity must access it. By a comparison of these passages, therefore, one may logically conclude that this is how men are “given” to Christ as well. As Bloomfield once observed, “The term [gives] therefore (here and at ver. 39 and 65) must signify something compatible with the free agency of man” (I, p. 363).

When former Baptist minister Robert Shank issued his book, Life in the Son, it produced shock waves among Calvinists. Professor William Adams of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary characterized the book as “one of the most arresting and disturbing books” he had ever read (p. xiii). In this instructive volume, Shank has a special Appendix, “Whom Does the Father Give to Jesus?” in which he discusses this very passage. Therein the author fires this parting blast:

“There is nothing about God’s gift of believers to be the heritage of the Son who died for them which somehow transforms the Gospel’s ‘whosoever will’ into a ‘whosoever must’ and a ‘most of you shan’t.‘ There is nothing about it which binds men in the strait jacket of an antecedent decree of positive unconditional election and reprobation, while insisting that they are ’free’” (p. 339).

(6) Our final question is this: “What is the meaning of the affirmation, ‘I will in no wise cast out’?” Some allege it suggests the dogma of the impossibility of apostasy, i.e., that no one “given” to Christ in the eternal scheme of things could ever be lost. The child of God, therefore, can never fall from grace — or so it is claimed.

The passage does not even remotely suggest this pernicious doctrine. Even Albert Barnes, who subscribed to the Calvinistic doctrine of the impossibility of apostasy (see his comment at Matthew 7:23), conceded the following, with reference to John 6:37b. “This expression does not refer to the doctrine of perseverance of the saints, but to the fact that Jesus will not reject or refuse any sinner who comes to him” (pp. 246-247).

This admission, combined with the scriptural declarations that God wants all men to be saved (1 Tim. 2:4; 2 Pet. 3:9), and that “whosoever will” may come to Christ, are death blows to the theory that some were chosen by God for salvation, and others for damnation, before the world began.Perhaps no dogma has ever been so misguided.

Works Cited
Barnes, Albert (1954), “Luke — John,” Notes on the New Testament (Grand Rapids: Baker).
Bloomfield, S.T. (1837), The Greek Testament with English Notes (Boston: Perkins & Marvin).
Reynolds. H.R. (1950), “The Gospel of John,” The Pulpit Commentary, H.D.M. Spence, Joseph Exell, Eds. (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans).
Shank, Robert (1961), Life in the Son (Springfield, MO: Westcott).
Does John 6:37 Teach Calvinist "Predestination"?

(my emp)

Brilliant man, absolutely brilliant!
J.

 

[Johann]

Yes, God gave us all brains...

..only 3 pounds, very condescending.
J.

 

[mailmandan]

Once Saved, Always Saved?
OP ^

IF not Saved ONCE...
How many Times ?

Salvation is not probation.
Eternal life is not temporary life.
Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.

 

[Taken]

Salvation is not probation.
Eternal life is not temporary life.
Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.

TRUE...and the constant debate.

The KEY of Gods Word.....is a man TASTING or EATING?

The KEY TO RECEIVING Salvation....is always A DEATH must First occur.

Living men, rolling the Word of God around in their mouth...ARE TASTING...keep Gods Word (His Seed) in your mouth until ones body drops dead.......whoop, the body is dead...the seed/Word of God in a mans mouth....That man is suitable for God to THEN SAVE.
** IFFY...hanging on hope, man can fall for other influences, enticed, spit out Gods Word/seed, rolling around in their mouth.
** Forfeit Salvation.

Living men, Eating the Word of God....Giving their body unto death, crucified with Christ .....whoop, the body dead...the seed/Word of God in the man....That man is suitable for God to SAVE THEN.
** Received Salvation.