Once Saved, Always Saved?

[Johann]

if a man purge himself 2 Tim 2:21; 1 Cor 5:7
work out your own salvation Phil 2:12
wash away thy sins Acts 22:16
obey Him Hebrews 5:9
he that believeth John 3:16

A Perversion of Biblical Faith

 

[mailmandan]

TRUE...and the constant debate.

The KEY of Gods Word.....is a man TASTING or EATING?...

In regards to tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come (Hebrews 6:5) they may have tasted in such a way as to give them a distinct impression of the quality of what was tasted, yet they still fell away. Inherent in the idea of tasting is the fact that one might or might not decide to accept what is tasted. For example, the same Greek word (geuomai) is used in Matthew 27:34 to say that those crucifying Jesus "offered him wine to drink, mingled with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not drink it."

*Do we merely taste into one Spirit or drink into one Spirit? (1 Corinthians 12:13)

 

[Taken]

In regards to tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come (Hebrews 6:5) they may have tasted in such a way as to give them a distinct impression of the quality of what was tasted, yet they still fell away. Inherent in the idea of tasting is the fact that one might or might not decide to accept what is tasted. For example, the same Greek word (geuomai) is used in Matthew 27:34 to say that those crucifying Jesus "offered him wine to drink, mingled with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not drink it."

*Do we merely taste into one Spirit or drink into one Spirit? (1 Corinthians 12:13)

Correct.
Anything TASTED is simply trying it. It is not making a commitment to EAT it.

Tasting is one thing.......a Taste is WITH (and can be spit out).
Eating is another thing...an Eating is WITH IN (and can not be spit out).

Taste the Word of God...Gods Spirit will DWELL “WITH” that man.
Eat the Word of God......Gods Spirit will DWELL “WITH & IN” that man.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are running from the greek.
You are afraid of talking with Greek scholars.
I challenge you to contact multiple Greek scholars and ask them,
What Colossians 2:12 baptizo is.

I've already taught you. The word baptizo is never used for any other baptism after Jesus' gospel went into force other than the water baptism performed in Jesus' gospel.
Before Jesus' gospel went into effect, baptizo was used in another baptism.
You know which one?
John's baptism,
Mark 1:4 that baptism is also WATER IMMERSION!

I do not need a pastor to baptize me.
Give book, chapter and verse that teaches the qualifications for the one performing the physical part of baptism?
Now,

Who takes away the sins in water immersion? God does the work in the baptism. Buried with Christ in baptism. Raised with Christ in newness of life, Romans 6:1-7.
Colossians 2:12 Who took Paul's sins away in his water immersion? Who did the work to cleanse Paul of his sins?
Acts 22:12-16,
-Then a certain Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good testimony with all the Jews who dwelt there,
-came to me; Brother Saul receive your sight, And at the same hour I looked up at him.
-Then Ananias said, The God of our fathers has chosen you that you should know His will and see the just One and hear the voice of His mouth.
-For you will be His witness to all men of what you have seen and heard.
-16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

It was Ananias that baptized Paul in water.
Paul said his sins were washed away in his baptism, Acts 22:16.

This is baptizo. It is no doubt water immersion with Paul's salvation.
Ananias baptized Paul, and God performed the operation to cleanse him of his sins, Colossians 2:12.

Acts 9:17-18,
-And Ananias went His way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said. Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road to Damascus has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.
-immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales and he received his sight at once and he arose and was baptized.

Before Paul was water baptized baptizo.
Ananias laid hands on him to be filled with the Holy Spirit.
Paul was "Holy Spirit baptized "
Then water baptized.
Which one is baptizo?

Contact Greek scholars and know the truth!
What is the Greek word for filled with the Holy Spirit?
Answer, plesthes.
Paul's baptism, in Acts 22:16, Acts 9:18 = baptizo
The baptism in Colossians 2:12 where God works His power to save us= baptizo.

Conclusion: water immersion is spiritual baptism. That is where God performs His work to cleanse us from our sins.
John 8:32

You teach water baptism is a work of man not God.
Then why is it commanded by Jesus in His gospel?
God would not command us to do a work of man in His gospel!
Acts 10:47-48 The Holy Spirit working through Peter commanded Cornelius to be baptizo.

You need to explain why God is commanding men to do works of mans righteousness,
And not the works of Gods righteousness, Acts 10:35 = Psalm 119:172.

Dude, number 1 you do not know me or what I have done
Number 2. I have looked up in the greek. And YOUR WRONG that it always means water
Number 3 I have also looked up in historical context (how they used the word in Jesus day) and it just further proves you wrong.

You want to sit here and falsly accuse someone because they do not agree with you. I will just let you go and place you in my prayer bin.

 

[Taken]

In regards to tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come (Hebrews 6:5) they may have tasted in such a way as to give them a distinct impression of the quality of what was tasted, yet they still fell away. Inherent in the idea of tasting is the fact that one might or might not decide to accept what is tasted. For example, the same Greek word (geuomai) is used in Matthew 27:34 to say that those crucifying Jesus "offered him wine to drink, mingled with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not drink it."

*Do we merely taste into one Spirit or drink into one Spirit? (1 Corinthians 12:13)

Jesus put it in the Context of EATING and DRINKING, what, and for whom He gave it.

Luke 22:
[19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
[20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

Every man has to decide IF he is able to eat, to drink what Jesus has Offered.

Matt 20:
[22] But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Unless Paul is a Liar , you KNOW that you are Saved because you Believe the Promise Of 1Cor15:1-4 .

Then how do you KNOW you really believe the promise of 1 Corinthians 15:1-4? By how you live. Lot's of people say they believe and then find out later they didn't really believe. The changing life is how you know for sure you really believe and are saved. The Bible calls it 'making your calling and election sure'.

 

[Johann]

Number 2. I have looked up in the greek. And YOUR WRONG that it always means water

Is water baptism an essential or non-essential Eternally Grateful?
J.

 

[Johann]

Then how do you KNOW you really believe the promise of 1 Corinthians 15:1-4?

The Holy Spirit not even mentioned on this thread?
J.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

We have only ONE LAW to concern ourselves with now —- it’s The Law of Christ— “ Bear the Burdens Of others” ......it’s time to set aside the rest of them.....If you are a Believer you need to put your Faith in something that is much more Superior than the Law —-That would be your In - Dwelling Holy Spirit.....why settle for something that is Second Best? I don’t. I live as a Free Man in Christ, and God knows how to “ blow the Whistle” on me when I get off track....

Paul’s #1 goal was “to KNOW Him”....... there is a very good reason for that .....if you really get to Know God, Love for God will naturally follow....That “ LOVE” is the Engine that drives Obedience.....”Love God and live as you please” ......That is the Ultimate MEAT for Believers... those that remain on the “ Milk Bottle” will never “Get” It......so suck away, I have chosen to Mature in my Faith....

If you were to read my post, you would realize that my whole point was that we are not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole or package deal.
We cannot be justified by the Law of Moses.

“And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.” (Acts of the Apostles 13:39).

Why? Because it was a part of the Old Covenant given to Moses and Israel and not the church.

The New Covenant began with Christ’s death, and believers under the New Covenant are under the many laws that come from Jesus and His followers.

This would be the Law(s) of Christ (and not the laws of Moses).

“To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.” (1 Corinthians 9:21).

Your view appears to teach you are without the Law of God or the Law of Christ because your belief teaches you can sin and still be saved.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Is water baptism an essential or non-essential Eternally Grateful?
J.

there are some (like Titus) who make it essential as they make it a requirement of salvation. Much like the Jews who tried to add Circumcision to the gospel. That makes it a false gospel of works..

 

[Taken]

Then how do you KNOW you really believe the promise of 1 Corinthians 15:1-4? By how you live. Lot's of people say they believe and then find out later they didn't really believe. The changing life is how you know for sure you really believe and are saved. The Bible calls it 'making your calling and election sure'.

There are ONLY TWO, who know for sure...
1) God
2) the man

A man KNOWS IF he is hearing /reading what Gods Word is all about.
A man KNOWS IF he is verifying with scripture what he is hearing.
A man KNOWS IF he is believing what he hears, verifies, reads.
A man KNOWS IF he is tasting Gods Word, in the man own mouth.
A man KNOWS IF he is Believing that Word in his mouth...
.....by his natural carnal mind, logically deduced makes sense. OR
.....by his spirit in his heart, trust this is true.
A man KNOWS IF he is keeping that Word in his mouth, spitting that Word out of his mouth, or Eating that Word in his mouth.

God VERIFIES...just as God teaches a man to verify.
God teaches VERIFY, with the SOURCE...

The man is the source of his own thoughts, speaking, believing.

God Searches a mans Heart (which is where the natural spirit of man is)...a mans TRUE thoughts, in a mans heart, IS a mans natural spirit.

 

[Johann]

there are some (like Titus)

I always thought that the washing of regeneration is the Scriptures, not water baptism...

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I always thought that the washing of regeneration is the Scriptures, not water baptism...

washing of water by the word. yes

some also call it the baptism of the Holy Spirit. which John the baptist foretold. and is seen in Rom 6, 1 Cor 12 etc etc.

 

[Johann]

washing of water by the word. yes

1Pe_3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
ESV

I have read this and looked at Albert Barnes and have come to the conclusion there is no saving efficacy in water.
Can you explain this for me brother.
J.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

1Pe_3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
ESV

I have read this and looked at Albert Barnes and have come to the conclusion there is no saving efficacy in water.
Can you explain this for me brother.
J.

I agree with you. There is no saving efficacy in water.

Water baptism Like physical circumcision, is a symbol of that which truly saves.That work of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Then how do you KNOW you really believe the promise of 1 Corinthians 15:1-4?

The Holy Spirit not even mentioned on this thread?
J.

I see your point Johann. When a person first believes the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 being convicted of their sins by the Spirit (John 16:8-9), a person will call upon the name of the Lord Jesus for salvation with the seeking of forgiveness of their past life of sin (Romans 10:13) (Luke 18:9-14), and they will receive a new heart with new desires by the working of the Holy Spirit (John 3:5) (Ezekiel 36:26) (2 Corinthians 5:17) so that Christ may dwell in a person’s heart by faith (Ephesians 3:17). While believers can go prodigal and come back to serving the Lord to the re-saving of their soul, generally a believer will be radically changed and they will not want to justify sin anymore (or think they can sin and still be saved their whole entire lives). Those who think they must sin again as a matter of fact this side of Heaven and yet they are still saved have not been born again. For they don’t think sin can separate them from GOD. A person who is born again spiritually will have a love joy, and peace that they have never known before and they will want to do what is always right with GOD.

 

[Behold]

Once God saves you, He keeps you saved.

Philippians 1:6

Once you are born again, you are always born again.

Its the same situation, reader, and notice that GOD is the Savior and Christ is the Way.

So, when you hear or read the words of someone who is confused and hyper religious, you should note that they will NEVER understand that Salvation is a GIFT and being born again, isn't temporary, NOR can you stop being born again.

Being born again, is a BIRTH........its a Spiritual Birth, that GOD caused.
Its DONE......and you can't stop being born again...

"well, what if i do this or what if i dont do that"..

A.) God didnt save you because of what YOU DO.......>He saves you based on what Christ did on the CROSS for you that you RECEIVE as "the gift of Salvation".

Religious believers always have a difficult time understanding this "gift of Salvation"", and the religious but lost "christian pretender", will fight the truth, openly, hatefully, and willfully .

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Here is an easy refutation of OSAS.

1 John 1:9.

If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.

The word IF is in the verse.
If you confess you will be forgiven.
It does not say you are forgiven of your sins and so you will confess.

If you are forgiven of all future sins, then you don’t have to confess of sins to be forgiven of sins and to be cleansed of all unrighteousness.
Are you cleansed of all unrighteousness in your life? Yes, or no? Do you still struggle with sin? If so… you have not been cleansed of all unrighteousness. But many in the OSAS camp will alter 1 John 1:9 to their own liking. This is not how things should be. We should just read the Bible, and believe it and not try to force a belief upon what the Bible says.

Some try to twist 1 John 1:9 to refer to Initial Salvation, but 1 John 2:1 is the continued context that refutes that idea. It says we are to “sin not” (Which is something the OSAS Proponent does not believe), and if we happen to sin (unintentionally) we have an advocate that we can go to named Jesus Christ. So 1 John 1:9 is a method or remedy in dealing with a believer’s continued walk with the Lord and it is not referring exclusively to Initial Salvation.

 

[Johann]

I see your point Johann. When a person first believes the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 being convicted of their sins by the Spirit (John 16:8-9), a person will call upon the name of the Lord Jesus for salvation with the seeking of forgiveness of their past life of sin (Romans 10:13) (Luke 18:9-14), and they will receive a new heart with new desires by the working of the Holy Spirit (John 3:5) (Ezekiel 36:26) (2 Corinthians 5:17) so that Christ may dwell in a person’s heart by faith (Ephesians 3:17). While believers can go prodigal and come back to serving the Lord to the re-saving of their soul, generally a believer will be radically changed and they will not want to justify sin anymore (or think they can sin and still be saved their whole entire lives). Those who think they must sin again as a matter of fact this side of Heaven and yet they are still saved have not been born again. For they don’t think sin can separate them from GOD. A person who is born again spiritually will have a love joy, and peace that they have never known before and they will want to do what is always right with GOD.

Thank you brother.
J.

 

[Johann]

Water baptism Like physical circumcision, is a symbol of that which truly saves.That work of the Holy Spirit.

That's the way I see it too.
Thank you for clarifying
J.