One person's explanation of the tribulation, etc.

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Wakka

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Jun 4, 2007
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After I was throwing scripture at these people saying that there was no pre-trib rapture, one of them came up with this post:
W is still stuck at the last trump:"It's still the last trump. It will happen after the tribulation. We'll be changed into our immortal bodies and we will reign with Christ in His millennial kingdom."Which "last trump? If it is the one recorded in Revelation, the 7th, this is a judgment trumpet [3rd woe] and there is no resurrection mentioned in chapters 10 and 11. This trumpet will blow before the tribulation is over.If it is the trump in Matthew 24:29 you need to study and learn that this action by the Lord is a gathering of mortals who survive the tribulation period .... the "elect" of national Israel first. This gathering is not a resurrection. You must also read and fully understand Matthew 25:31-45. Note that the Lord refers to the "elect" of national Israel as His "brethren" when evaluating the gathered gentiles. Only believers will be admitted to His kingdom. The mortal survivors of the nations will be separated for enterence into the Lord's millennial kingdom ..... as mortals. This gathering is not a resurrection. If it were then the Lord would be separating the immortal church and this makes no sense.If, as you think, the trumpet in Matthew 24:29 is a general resurrection of all believers after the tribulation period this can not be. If true, there would be no surviving believers to inhabit and populate [reproduce] the Lord's millennial kingdom. You must also understand Revelation 20 correctly. The immortals of the church will rule with the Lord over nations of mortals for 1,000 years. The purpose for imprisioning satan in the abyss for the 1,000 years is to prevent him from deceiving the nations. Mortals can be deceived ..... immortals cannot.The conflict over the Lord's promise to keep living believers from His coming judgment is one of great significance and many are being deceived by believing that He will not do this. This deception is being induced by satan through a number of false teachers and their followers today and this behavior is going to increase. Those who fall for this diversion will enter the tribulation period and will be exposed to exceptionally vexing conditions including the delusions that satan will bring to the earth.I would suggest that you extend your study of the Lord's coming millennial kingdom on the earth to include all passages of scripture that describe it. Many of these are in the visions of the O.T. prophets. You also need to discover that His millennial kingdom which will last for 1,000 years is different than the next which will be an eternal kingdom of nothing but immortals and a new earth and heavens as described in Revelation 21. The Lord will destroy this present earth just after His millennial kingdom for 1,000 years is over. Read the sequence of events in Revelation 19, 20, 21.
I honestly don't know how to respond to this. What are your guy's opinions?
 

Christina

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Apr 10, 2006
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Except the subject is Where are the dead in Thess1 the church at Thess was 3 weeks old when Paul had to leave because he was running for his life it was mixed gentile and Jew a false rumor came to them that Christ had already come back for the second time so they were exspecting the promise of 1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.You will find this uis common knowledge in history not my opinion So they were waiting for the dead to be raised and be changed when Timothy heard this he reported it to Paul who wrote 2 Thess to explain that Christ had not yet returned and that he wouldnt until after Antichrist and the post above is wrong there are 7 trumps,7 vials 7 seals Satan antichrist comes in the 5th/6th if you want to play around with Gods word go ahead but thats not what it says There is only one gathering to the Lord mentioned and if any tells me the 7th trump isnt the second coming they are a liar
 

Christina

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Apr 10, 2006
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Wakka heres my reply to this guys post......................."It's still the last trump. It will happen after the tribulation. We'll be changed into our immortal bodies and we will reign with Christ in His millennial kingdom."..........................Which "last trump? If it is the one recorded in Revelation, the 7th, this is a judgment trumpet [3rd woe] and there is no resurrection mentioned in chapters 10 and 11. This trumpet will blow before the tribulation is over.Wakka this is a lie the 7th trump is Christ return the trumps are in order most of the others WOES ect. are not you can see this with some understanding of revelation he is making a wrong assumption they are in order some are happening simultaneously If it is the trump in Matthew 24:29 you need to study and learn that this action by the Lord is a gathering of mortals who survive the tribulation period .... the "elect" of national Israel first. This gathering is not a resurrection. You must also read and fully understand Matthew 25:31-45. Note that the Lord refers to the "elect" of national Israel as His "brethren" when evaluating the gathered gentiles. Only believers will be admitted to His kingdom. The mortal survivors of the nations will be separated for enterence into the Lord's millennial kingdom ..... as mortals. This gathering is not a resurrection. If it were then the Lord would be separating the immortal church and this makes no sense.The Elect are those that survive til the End his assumption they are national Israel is ok but he does not get who that is that is All Christains and Jews who overcame the tribulation and are the bride of Christ as Eze 37 two sticks explains if you understand who Israel isits not just Jews or Isreal of today He is talking the parable of Sheep and Goats divisionI agree we must understand these verse but he obviously does not this is after Christs return after tribulation (we are spirit)Matthew 25:31 "When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory:"Have you wondered what it will be like at Christ return? This is that time; Jesus Christ will come in all His glory, as King of Kings, and Lord of Lord, and with all the holy angels with Him. Jesus will then sit on His throne of His glory, right here on earth. Not on some cloud, or off in space, but in Jerusalem. Matthew 25:32 "And before Him shall be gathered all nations: and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:"Notice that there is no reference to a resurrection here, therefore no reference to Revelation 20. The Gathering to Christ is to be on earth, as Recorded in Isaiah 34:1, 2; and Joel 3:1, 2, 11, and 12. When Christ returns in His glory, there will be division. The division in the beginning of the Millennium age is a time for teaching and discipline. The division that this parable shall end with is the final division where the souls will either go into eternity, or into the lake of fire. Again this division is after we are all changed into our spirit bodies and the kingdom of heaven is on earthIf, as you think, the trumpet in Matthew 24:29 is a general resurrection of all believers after the tribulation period this can not be. If true, there would be no surviving believers to inhabit and populate [reproduce] the Lord's millennial kingdom. You must also understand Revelation 20 correctly. The immortals of the church will rule with the Lord over nations of mortals for 1,000 years. The purpose for imprisioning satan in the abyss for the 1,000 years is to prevent him from deceiving the nations. Mortals can be deceived ..... immortals cannot.The conflict over the Lord's promise to keep living believers from His coming judgment is one of great significance and many are being deceived by believing that He will not do this. This deception is being induced by satan through a number of false teachers and their followers today and this behavior is going to increase. Those who fall for this diversion will enter the tribulation period and will be exposed to exceptionally vexing conditions including the delusions that satan will bring to the earth.Again hes right but ALL ARE CHANGED NOT JUST THE ELECT ALLHe right it started in 1830 nwith a an Isane girls dream it never was taught by Christ or any disciples its the Pre rapture doctrineI would suggest that you extend your study of the Lord's coming millennial kingdom on the earth to include all passages of scripture that describe it. Many of these are in the visions of the O.T. prophets. You also need to discover that His millennial kingdom which will last for 1,000 years is different than the next which will be an eternal kingdom of nothing but immortals and a new earth and heavens as described in Revelation 21. The Lord will destroy this present earth just after His millennial kingdom for 1,000 years is over. Read the sequence of events in Revelation 19, 20, 21. Lords coming there is no mortals we are All changed into spirit bodies does he understand the word ALLI would suggest the same to him 29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shakentHIS IS AFTER sATANS TRIBULATION THIS IS CHRIST COMING THIS IS CHRIST TRIBULATION CALLED THE 7TH LAST TRUMP
 

Christina

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Apr 10, 2006
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You can get Rev if you do not understand that it is not given in order the seals are not in chronological order, However, the trumpets are sounded to do an action. The trumpets are actions that are in order, and acted upon at the sounding of each of the trumpets. Though the white horse of the first seal [Antichrist's arrival] is stated first as a seal, it is the fifth trumpet that sounds his arrival upon the earth. We see in this example the first rider on the white horse is Antichrist well the first seal is the same as the 5th trumpAnd as for 1 thess read it for yourselfs I didnt write this if you dont believe me read it from someone else http://www.christianityboard.com/1-thess-4-13-17-t6135.htmlYou know you guys act like Im trying to stop you from something if you want hold out hope for a pre rapture go ahead it hurts nothing if you are aware of the facts thats is IF YOU ARE STILL HERE ON EARTH THEN CHRIST IS NOT HERE AND HE COMES SECOND IF YOU KNOW THISHAVE IT FIXED IN YOUR MIND if you are not in the air and are walking on the ground No matter what Antichrist says if he promises he will rapture you later he is lying Im only trying to warn you its not in Gods Word unless you twist the Word like wakka's posterWhen the true Christ comes ALL of us will be changed and gathered to him he wont just be making empty promises like antichrist he will just do it. If you can still pinch your self Christ is not here period. Its the ones that wont learn these facts that I worry for the ones that say we dont need to learn the end time events we wont be here anyway they are the ones in trouble I hate that men tell Gods children you dont need to hear his words about this you will be flying out of here. thats the inquity of Satan that already works. Have hope but dont be a fool and not learn the events that God tells us will happen incase you are wrong.
 
Nov 8, 2007
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Kriss, I really don't like when you call it twisting the Words of God, cause men are men, they are fallible, and flesh is flesh, it's corruptible. I will point something out with the Harpazo/Rapture doctrine which the High Members of CB don't believe. I just tell everyone believe in What Christ Did. God the Father, YHWH dwelled in Flesh, Jesus Christ, Died and shed his Blood for you, Rose against. Ascended into heaven, dwells in his Church Now through his Holy Ghost, and will come again and gather those whom he Dwells in.Kriss, I love you sister, but there are some doctrines of your that I cannot believe in. Pre-Adamic Race, Prophecy and Speaking in Tongues by your defintion, etc.
 

Christina

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Apr 10, 2006
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I never had a problem with you doing that about Harpazo its true but it says nothing about when thats where men fail to hear the word I wasnt talking any particular man nor was this in any way directed at you why are you so parnoid lately I have taught this same thing for two years on this site what makes you think it has anything to do with you?? I have reasearched and studied that word and this subject sense before you were born you think it was new to me you are wrong. I like you pointing out things you find thats how we learnMen do twist the word Satan is the master at it Im not going to pretend differnt because you do not see it I'm defending Gods word on it Not mens and I've shown you the scriptures to prove it and the history you want to follow men your choice. I served God to best of my ability by telling the truth of his word the rest is not my responsibility each to his own God says he comes to gather his church, catch away, if you like once at the last 7th trump thats the truththat is what Christ taught and everyone after him till 1830 when a crazy girl dreamed other wiseGods word also never teaches any unknown language , and it teaches all races created the sixth day so believe what you want I never asked you to believe me I exspect you to believe God over men if you don't your choice doesn't mean I don't love you but I will never stop telling scripture how its written just because its not what you want to hear Ive always said prove me wrong in scripture and Ill stop saying it otherwise welll.............
 

n2thelight

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2006
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Wakka,I have a question for this person,as I think Kriss answered the rest,so my question to that person is thisMany rapturist say that the trumps in Rev are different from the ones in Matt,question is this,if they are different where are the other trumps before the last one mentioned in Matt?