One taken, one left

[afaithfulone4u]

We are very familiar with this passage of scripture how two will be but one will be taken and the other left. Where are they taken too?

War! where they are bundled together and the eagles gather they are being thrown into the fire to be burned. Line of fire that is, in the heat of the action for we have been warned by our Head that those who have willing hearts to kill and take up the sword... SHALL die by the sword.
There is never any bad guys in war haven't you noticed.... for in error both sides believe they are the good guy fighting the bad guy... yet in their vain understanding they don't realize there are NO winners or good guys that have it in them to kill another human being. And both sides are being led into the fire, both suffering loss, and both working for the enemy of our God, for he was the first murderer for coveteousness sakes.
The Word that I follow says to not return evil for evil, turn the other cheek, and when Paul who thought he was killing for God's name was Stopped by Jesus on the road to Damascus..he was shown another way he became of a NEW CREATION in Christ who did not kill even his own brothers the now believers in Christ of the Gentiles. Even upon stoneing Stephen did not rebell or raise a hand to anyone, but said forgive them and hold not this to their account. That is to be a TRUE Christian's stance. We do not fight flesh and blood men, we fight their captivity to an unclean spirit that keeps them down in hell, burning everyday of their life due to immoral behavior because they reject the Word to live by.
When Cain killed his own brother Able, you did not hear that Adam or Eve fell so low as to desire to kill Cain, not even God killed Cain. Why didn't God kill Cain? Because God uses man to do His bidding and for judgments and there were NO willing hearts to kill at that time.
See if you are willing to kill for something that offends you thinking you have the right, then who's to give the measure of what offends you that would justly give you the right to kill?

Blessings

 

[tgwprophet]

In the Old Testament war was often sanctioned by God and war meant killing. In the end of the New Testament, was again is sanctoned by God as Jesus comes prepared for batle. In the mist of these times is Grace whereas killing is considered wrong. The reasoning for this is simple... becasue of GRACE all are considered as being able to be saved, to cut one's time short by an act of war would then be wrong. Even before Armogeddon is started there are times of killing duringGrace that is rigfhteous... Consider the Two Witnesses and what they are odered to do by God, to anyone that will harm them.

However, how is it that a person who walks in darkness could see the light if Christian were killing just as the person who walks in darkenss does killing. Commission of the same act as one who walks in darkness commits does not teach the one who walks in darkness that what he is doing is wrong. However telling that person - you forgive him - allows him a chance to see the error in his ways.

 

[JosyWales]

It seems that people may have been tricked into looking at this scripture backward.

In other words, as the original poster says, to be 'taken' is to be destroyed and to be 'left behind' is to be left in peace. Modern theologists have reversed the meaning.

There was an old Twilight Zone show where they found a book called "How to Serve Man" and all they could translate was the title. A bunch of aliens showed up and said it was their book on how to make men happy, but in the end, it turned out to be a cook book. I often think the same thing has happeded here.

 

[afaithfulone4u]

God is a man of war, but man was not supposed to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good AND EVIL. Only from the tree of life. The ironic thing is that God is a perfect judge and knows the heart of a man so He is able to destroy or pluck up the tree that is producing bad fruit for it is His Creation to do with as He pleases.

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
KJV

Gen 3:22
22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
KJV



He does it by His own Hand meaning HIS WORD,Jesus is the Word of God the spiritual Hand of God that all things are created by and for. How does God accomplish His works? Doesn't HE SPEAK them and then they are??
He never touches no one physically Himself. God tells the mountains fall on them, He tells the oceans to cover them, He tells willing hearted men kill your own people even.
Yes Jesus came as a babe to teach us the foundation of how to become a child of God as the first Adam was before his fall, so that we would not be destroyed as the disobedient ungodly will be when the grapes of wrath are squashed.
But when time is up, 6 days(6,000yrs) we work to plant the Seed(Jesus) of God's Word to bring forth some good trees for the kingdom and then HARVEST TIME comes where no more planting can be done and the fields are left to replenish the blood filled soil to it's original state on the 7th day of rest(1,000 yrs). The mighty works of God are going on all around us right now, but those without understanding along with scientists try to make them out to be just accidents or natural disasters... but they are being CALLED FORTH BY GOD for the harvest of souls and the warnings to bring many running to God for salvation.
The two witnesses do not touch anyone they are working in the Power of the Almighty and will be calling the true people of God to assemble while those who have no understanding of these things they are doing are for the ungodly's destruction not for those of faith.

Matt 13:30
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn(Place for self keeping).
KJV

Jesus said that the KINGDOM of God is WITHIN US, He also said that those who believe upon him shall never die, hunger or thirst again. I believe that hell and heaven are together on this earth and that hell is the lower parts who live in a poverty, diseased, immoral, ungodly state of existence because they want to be their own god and have rejected to live by God's Word being Christ. And the kingdom of God is the UPPER or higher existence of living the kings and government officials(angels, ministers of God) who do not participate in war themselves or suffer as those in the lower parts of the earth but have been given the dominion of the earth to rule and reign and they send the lower classes of man due to imorality, to do their work.
So that is exactly how this new world will be, the rulers are being trained up( Now before the foundation of the NEW EARTH those he foreknew being us) in Christ to learn the Word of God and how to keep God as your guide in your laws of the motherland that you will rule over.
The sons of God that will be in Christ's image, will be the kings and priests of the new earth for they are caught up to God's throne meaning to GOD'S STATUS on this earth as they are given the DOMAIN BY GOD to rule on His behalf.
What has happened is that the angels(rulers being minister's of God) have thrown down the ROD which is the Law of God for their nations and have not kept THE ALMIGHTY as their governing HEAD. They have fallen into a state of IMMORALITY and now we see their foolishness of their actions in the Media as ones drunken on the wine(blood) of their evil deeds that kill life as we know it. And they create chemicals,and do many things that are destroying the earth and the people.

When He who restraineth, meaning the body of Christ, who are to be the salt in the earth to try and preserve, heal and cure the sick of unclean spirits, is taken out of the way... THEN all hell will break loose as Satan will be thrown down to the lower earth from his high level of POWER in our government and he is really going to tempt man to sin and the more the sin, the worse the people become depraved in their actions in DISCUSSEDING manner as the walking dead(zombies), canabolism, eating their own husband wife and children for the food sources will be withheld by God being the sun and the rain that God commands due to our accumulated sinfulness.
People worry about our water source, yet they TOTALLY forget that it is GOD ALMIGHTY who controls the water source and ALL THINGS, if the world would just turn from our own works and ask Him for clean water to drink, food, health, and turn from our wicked ways of self preservation and immorality that kills and seek His ways of doing things, Then He could bring fresh water in a split second.
Praise God Almighty KING OF HEAVEN AND EARTH!
Life and death are in the power of the tongue and what we say is what we shall have and we shall eat the fruit that it produces. Praise and thank God everyday that He is GOOD to those who love His Word(Christ) and want to do things His way, not thinking of our ownself as god, but putting all our cares in His Hand and He will raise our standards up to be worthy of ruling and reigning on HIS EARTH upon HIGH.
blessings


I might add that David was not allowed to build the temple for the LORD because he was a man of war that had shed much blood. Now, if Jesus is the temple and we are the living stones of his temple, being built up on the Word as the temple wouldn't it be in error to be a man of war?
1 Chron 22:7-8
7 And David said to Solomon, My son, as for me, it was in my mind to build an house unto the name of the LORD my God:
8 But the word of the LORD came to me, saying, Thou hast shed blood abundantly, and hast made great wars: thou shalt not build an house unto my name, because thou hast shed much blood upon the earth in my sight.
KJV
2 Tim 2:19-22
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
KJV

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

It seems that people may have been tricked into looking at this scripture backward.

In other words, as the original poster says, to be 'taken' is to be destroyed and to be 'left behind' is to be left in peace. Modern theologists have reversed the meaning.

There was an old Twilight Zone show where they found a book called "How to Serve Man" and all they could translate was the title. A bunch of aliens showed up and said it was their book on how to make men happy, but in the end, it turned out to be a cook book. I often think the same thing has happeded here.

.
Good one

 

[daq]

Perhaps the reason the statement has been rendered confusingly has more to do with theological reasons rather than eschatological ones. The confusion seems to stem from the results of changing the meaning of "aphiemi" which means "to send away" or "to send forth" in various applications. The other word "paralambano", (translated as "taken" here) means "to receive near" so it is fairly clear once one looks a little deeper into the meanings of the Greek words. However, it is not so clear if one is not willing to divide himself in twain, (to start with) allowing his own soul to be rent-apollumi-destroyed so as to have the "old man" sent away. There is likewise a heavy handed reason why "aphiemi" needed to be slightly altered and that was so that it could be rendered "forgiven" in oh so many instances rather than "send away" like as your "sins being sent away on the head of the scapegoat" by the High Priest:

Luke 17:32-36 KJV
32. Remember Lot's wife.
33. Whosoever shall seek to save his life [psuchen-soul] shall lose [apollumi-destroy] it; and whosoever shall lose [apollumi-destroy] his life [psuchen-soul] shall preserve it.
34. I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, [GSN#3880 paralambano] and the other shall be left [GSN#863 apheimi].
35. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, [GSN#3880 paralambano] and the other left [GSN#863 apheimi].
36. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, [GSN#3880 paralambano] and the other left [GSN#863 apheimi].

Original Strong's Ref. #3880
Romanized paralambano
Pronounced par-al-am-ban'-o
from GSN3844 and GSN2983; to receive near, i.e. associate with oneself (in any familiar or intimate act or relation); by analogy, to assume an office; figuratively, to learn:
KJV--receive, take (unto, with).

Original Strong's Ref. #863
Romanized aphiemi
Pronounced af-ee'-ay-mee
from GSN0575 and hiemi (to send; an intensive form of eimi, to go); to send forth, in various applications (as follow):
KJV--cry, forgive, forsake, lay aside, leave, let (alone, be, go, have), omit, put (send) away, remit, suffer, yield up.

"A duo in one bed; one shall be paralambano-received near, the other shall be aphiemi-sent away" ... (into perdition).

Matthew 9:1-6 KJV
1. And he entered into a ship, and passed over, and came into his own city.
2. And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, [GSN#5043 teknon] be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven [GSN#863 apheimi] thee.
3. And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth.
4. And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?
5. For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven [GSN#863 apheimi] thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?
6. But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive [GSN#863 apheimi] sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

One of the reasons they accused him of blasphemy was because this authority, given from God through Torah by the mouth of Moses, was vested in only one man; the High Priest, and that only once per year, at Yom Kippur, "to send away" the sins of the people upon the head of the scapegoat.

"Teknon-child, be of good cheer; the sins of thee be apheimi-sent away"…

However, the figurative scapegoat always wonders back into the camp from the dry arid wilderness places with all the sins upon his mortally wounded head and this is the time of trial, (each in his or her own appointed times and none shall be alone in his appointed times). Therefore the Master clearly warns about this event:

John 5:12-14 KJV
12. Then asked they him, What man is that which said unto thee, Take up thy bed, and walk?
13. And he that was healed wist not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place.
14. Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

What worse thing can possibly come unto us if we continue in sin? The old-man-scapegoat unclean spirit doubles back and returns; two horns like a lamb but speaking like a dragon: and that one is used in the latter time for the final fiery atonement:

Luke 11:24-26 KJV
24. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out.
25. And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished.
26. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

Remember Lot's wife in that night: No man having put his hand to the plough and looking back is fit for the Kingdom ...

 

[veteran]

It seems that people may have been tricked into looking at this scripture backward.

In other words, as the original poster says, to be 'taken' is to be destroyed and to be 'left behind' is to be left in peace. Modern theologists have reversed the meaning.

There was an old Twilight Zone show where they found a book called "How to Serve Man" and all they could translate was the title. A bunch of aliens showed up and said it was their book on how to make men happy, but in the end, it turned out to be a cook book. I often think the same thing has happeded here.

Scarey, isn't it? Just to think how easy many can be duped when all they have to do is read the Scripture as written for theirselves, and instead they go after falseness. Apostle Paul did mention about a lethargic stupor upon many for the last days (Rom.11).

 

[7angels]

i have read this op and all the views everyone has posted but i am still confused on what is being discussed here. are we discussing the verse that the OP refers too or what? some are talking about where these people disappear too. others say that the verse means the opposite of what it says. another talks of definitions and how they are being mistranslated.

so what exactly are we discussing?

any help would be appreciated.

 

[JosyWales]

I took the original post as a comment that those “taken” were not taken to some good place but to be destroyed in war, comparable to the term "the city was taken" meaning it was conquered or destroyed. Of course if this is true, and I think he is correct, then to be “left” means to be passed over or forgiven. The rest of his post I took to be simply a commentary on war and man’s role in it, in essence saying that those who choose violence are incorrect in their path. If this is not right, I hope the original poster says so.

It has been pointed out to me before that believing the “taken” verses to be supporting the Rapture theory is incorrect for it is really saying just the opposite and is an incorrect translation of this passage. If “taken” does mean to be destroyed, then it makes the comment Jesus made about “Where the carcass is, there will the eagles gather” (Mat 24:28 and Luke 17:37) make much more sense.This comment does not seem to fit if He is taking his people out of Tribulation as is commonly believed by many.

As for what others are thinking, I will not speak for them.

 

[daq]

i have read this op and all the views everyone has posted but i am still confused on what is being discussed here. are we discussing the verse that the OP refers too or what? some are talking about where these people disappear too. others say that the verse means the opposite of what it says. another talks of definitions and how they are being mistranslated.

so what exactly are we discussing?

any help would be appreciated.

It is very simple: put aside theology for the moment and prove yourself to be a disciple of the Word by believing the statements recorded for us according to the original meanings of the words within their original contexts and usages. If one does this he or she will do well; not only will the same begin to understand the words of Messiah, (in the absence of the doctrines of men) but the same also will begin to understand the words of those who wrote concerning Messiah, like Paul, whose teachings cannot be understood without firstly understanding the doctrine of the Teacher.

 

[veteran]

i have read this op and all the views everyone has posted but i am still confused on what is being discussed here. are we discussing the verse that the OP refers too or what? some are talking about where these people disappear too. others say that the verse means the opposite of what it says. another talks of definitions and how they are being mistranslated.

so what exactly are we discussing?

any help would be appreciated.

The main point of the thread is how men's traditions have taken the Luke 17:34-36 Scripture and created a doctrine out of it that goes completely opposite of the correct Scripture meaning, which happens because of not finishing what Jesus said, like this...


Luke 17:37
37 And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
(KJV)


The OP then began associating where those are 'taken' to with the idea of war (which is a far stretch in my opinion).

We know our Lord Jesus was speaking that Luke 17:37 idea in the negative sense for those 'taken' in that chapter, because Matt.24 has the parallel verse to it...

Matt 24:28
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
(KJV)

The word "carcase" is Greek 'ptoma', which means a lifeless dead body.

Yet men's traditions have taken the mere idea of being 'taken' within the Luke 17 chapter, and associated rapture by Christ with it.

 

[daq]

The main point of the thread is how men's traditions have taken the Luke 17:34-36 Scripture and created a doctrine out of it that goes completely opposite of the correct Scripture meaning, which happens because of not finishing what Jesus said, like this...


Luke 17:37
37 And they answered and said unto Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said unto them, "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."
(KJV)


The OP then began associating where those are 'taken' to with the idea of war (which is a far stretch in my opinion).

We know our Lord Jesus was speaking that Luke 17:37 idea in the negative sense for those 'taken' in that chapter, because Matt.24 has the parallel verse to it...

Matt 24:28
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
(KJV)

The word "carcase" is Greek 'ptoma', which means a lifeless dead body.

Yet men's traditions have taken the mere idea of being 'taken' within the Luke 17 chapter, and associated rapture by Christ with it.

Yes, ptoma-carcase, and their carcase [singular] is upon the plateia of the great city three days and the hemisu ... :huh:

 

[7angels]

if what you say is true then you should be able to find this in the old testament as a type and shadow. i read and reread those chapters listed and even read more to get the context of the chapter. i understand how you can come up with believing how those scriptures could be referring to passed over or forgiven but one thing that confuses me is what v37 means if they are referring to v34-36.

also how does including v32-33 about lot's wife in with your v34-36 connect?





Strong's Number: g3880

Greek:
paralambano

i found these meaning for take according to the meanings of strong's.



Take:
besides its meaning "to receive," denotes "to take
to (or with) oneself," of "taking" a wife, e.g., Mat 1:20, 24; of "taking" a person or
persons with one, e.g., Mat
2:13, 14, 20, 21; 4:5, 8; of demons, Mat 12:45; of Christ and His
disciples, Mat 17:1; 20:17; Mar 9:2; 10:32; 14:33; of witnesses, Mat 18:16; of the removal of
persons from the earth in judgment, when "the Son of Man is revealed," Mat 24:40, 41; Luk 17:34, 35 (cp. the means of the
removal of corruption, in Luk 17:37); of the "taking" of Christ by the soldiers for scourging, Mat 27:27, RV, and to
crucifixion, Jhn 19:16; see also Act 15:39; 16:33; 21:24, 26, 32; 23:18.


God bless

 

[veteran]

The main reason I pointed to the Greek with the word "carcase" in the Matt.24:28 parallel to this was to show that our Lord Jesus was definitely speaking Luke 17:37 in the negative as to where those are 'taken'. The way 'taken' is used there is a clear translation already, i.e., one taken and the other left for example.

Christ explained the idea of how v.34-36 "taken" is meant when He answered His disciple's question of "Where, Lord?"... i.e., wherethose would be taken to. Luke 17:37 is Christ's answer to His disciple's question about Luke 17:34-36. So all those verses are together specifically about the "that night", which is a pointer to what time and event?

Luke 17:26-32 are all together according to subject context, Christ's warning of the previous destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah used in comparison of the wicked destroyed on the day of His coming. There's a reason why He gave "that night" in contrast.

Luke 17:33 is about the tribulation timing. Those who seek to preserve their life for that time means following the pseudo-Christ that is to appear during the future tribulation, in false worship, to save their life, and thus those will be lost to Christ. But those who lose their life during that time for Christ will have preserved their life unto eternal life through Jesus Christ.

This is why in Luke 17:34 our Lord Jesus uses the concept of "in that night..." about those taken and those left, because it's specifically about the tribulation time that will occur prior to His return.

Luke 17:31 is specifically about the time of Christ's coming and the gathering of His Church. The "upon the housetop" and "field" are metaphors about remaining steadfast, watching and waiting for His coming. Per Old Testament history, the rooftops is where the watchman stayed on lookout. Per Christ's parable of the tares (Matt.13), the "field" represents the world. So to remain in the "field" is pointer to remaining steadfast, waiting for His coming, linked with the idea of continuing in His WorK and not being 'taken' in deception.

This is why He's using the idea of two women grinding together (at the mill), one taken and the other left. The one who stays grinding represents His Church remaining steadfast for His coming, like being on the housetop and still in the field. These little metaphors are very important, they are not given us by mere coencidence.

 

[guysmith]

afaithfulone4u,
You stated: We are very familiar with this passage of scripture how two will be but
one will be taken and the other left. Where are they taken too?

My response: The is an end time prophecy pointing to an event leading up to the advent of Christ.

Two are in a field. One is taken the other left. So in this parable, one "half" is taken and one "half" is left. In the parable of the ten virgins, five (one "half) are admitted into the brideschamber and the other five (one "half") are excluded. These are just two examples where Christ describes events which lead up to His advent.

And the answer to your question "Where are they taken too?"








Zechariah 14
King James Version (KJV)


14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city
shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half
of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people
shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

 

[7angels]

let me see if i understand where you are coming from.

The main reason I pointed to the Greek with the word "carcase" in the Matt.24:28 parallel to this was to show that our Lord Jesus was definitely speaking Luke 17:37 in the negative as to where those are 'taken'. The way 'taken' is used there is a clear translation already, i.e., one taken and the other left for example.
please explain what you believe luke 17:37 and matt 24:28 means to you. remember that Jesus used a bunch of parabols to explain his messages. so we need to see what those symbols represented in order to get the jist of the meaning.
Christ explained the idea of how v.34-36 "taken" is meant when He answered His disciple's question of "Where, Lord?"... i.e., wherethose would be taken to. Luke 17:37 is Christ's answer to His disciple's question about Luke 17:34-36. So all those verses are together specifically about the "that night", which is a pointer to what time and event?
to answer your question first i would be referring to the rapture but i am not sure. i believe v37 holds the key but i cannot figure out the meaning yet.
Luke 17:26-32 are all together according to subject context, Christ's warning of the previous destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah used in comparison of the wicked destroyed on the day of His coming. There's a reason why He gave "that night" in contrast.
those verses could be referring also to what the would will be like and how lot symbolizes the church and will be saved from the tribulation to come. remember that the new testament reveals the old testament. every story in the old testament in some way reveals Christ. otherwise where did Jesus get his revelation(don't get religious on me here please)? the word teaches that by the word of 2 or 3 witnesses will his word be established. in other words for every statement in the bible there are at least 2 or more scriptures that will support each other. the new testament was built off of the old testament according to scripture so somewhere there is proof to support the new testament teaching.
Luke 17:33 is about the tribulation timing. Those who seek to preserve their life for that time means following the pseudo-Christ that is to appear during the future tribulation, in false worship, to save their life, and thus those will be lost to Christ. But those who lose their life during that time for Christ will have preserved their life unto eternal life through Jesus Christ.
v33 is referring to giving Jesus our all and not looking back and remember not to take v33 out of context because Jesus is now talking of Lot's wife and her actions. what you say here about your explanation of v33 is unscriptural because it is not because we were killed for Christ that will bring us eternal life. rom 10:9 tells us what is required for eternal life and being killed for Christ or living for Christ will not get you to heaven unless you meet the requirements of rom 10:9.
This is why in Luke 17:34 our Lord Jesus uses the concept of "in that night..." about those taken and those left, because it's specifically about the tribulation time that will occur prior to His return.
the pre trib rapture fits into your explaination you have posted here. pretrib rapture also goes along with v34-36. it takes more faith to believe your explanation for me then to believe in the pretrib rapture.
Luke 17:31 is specifically about the time of Christ's coming and the gathering of His Church. The "upon the housetop" and "field" are metaphors about remaining steadfast, watching and waiting for His coming. Per Old Testament history, the rooftops is where the watchman stayed on lookout. Per Christ's parable of the tares (Matt.13), the "field" represents the world. So to remain in the "field" is pointer to remaining steadfast, waiting for His coming, linked with the idea of continuing in His WorK and not being 'taken' in deception.
i believe what is being meant here is the same thing as v32-33. to me it seems like v32&33 are an example of the point he is trying to get across. Jesus has said multiple times to turn away from your previous life and don't look back.
This is why He's using the idea of two women grinding together (at the mill), one taken and the other left. The one who stays grinding represents His Church remaining steadfast for His coming, like being on the housetop and still in the field. These little metaphors are very important, they are not given us by mere coencidence.
for reasons posted above is why i disagree with this line of reasoning.

sorry veteran i meant to clarify points but as i got into your reasoning it started to make no sense to me so a clarification turned into a correction of sorts.

God bless

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

the comment Jesus made about “Where the carcass is, there will the eagles gather” (Mat 24:28 and Luke 17:37) make much more sense.This comment does not seem to fit if He is taking his people out of Tribulation as is commonly believed by many.

Josy ...... I dont know about you ..... but to me ..... “Where the carcass is, there will the eagles gather” .... is one of those verses that seem to be plunked in the middle of scripture without rhyme nor reason and leaves us scratching our heads sometimes.

probably not relevant but here are a few more mentions of "birds" eating flesh .....

Revelation 19:17 (NASB) .... Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, “Come, assemble for the great supper of God,

Revelation 8:13 ..... Then I looked, and I heard an eagle flying in midheaven, saying with a loud voice, “Woe, woe, woe to those who dwell on the earth, because of the remaining blasts of the trumpet of the three angels who are about to sound!”

Jeremiah 12:9 (NASB) ... Are the birds of prey against her on every side? Go, gather all the beasts of the field, Bring them to devour!

This one sounds like Jesus' sacrifice ... Ezekiel 39:17 ..... “As for you, son of man, thus says the Lord God, ‘Speak to every kind of bird and to every beast of the field, “Assemble and come, gather from every side to My sacrifice which I am going to sacrifice for you, as a great sacrifice on the mountains of Israel, that you may eat flesh and drink blood.

Like I said .... I'm not trying to make a point ..... still just scratching my head about "what or who" Jesus was talking about in Matt 24:28


.

 

[veteran]

The main reason I pointed to the Greek with the word "carcase" in the Matt.24:28 parallel to this was to show that our Lord Jesus was definitely speaking Luke 17:37
in the negative as to where those are 'taken'. The way 'taken' is used
there is a clear translation already, i.e., one taken and the other left
for example.

please explain what you believe
luke 17:37 and matt 24:28 means to you. remember that Jesus used a
bunch of parabols to explain his messages. so we need to see what those
symbols represented in order to get the jist of the meaning.

I'll try to make it easier, but it's difficult since the metaphors our Lord Jesus is giving are there to make it easy to grasp, so trying to make it more easy can get confusing.

The Luke 17:37 and Matt.24:28 verses are our Lord Jesus' answer to His disciple's question of where those taken would be taken to. I've already said in my previous post, and now I've said it again. He mentioned to them about the one taken and other left, His disciples asked Him "Where, Lord?", and He gave the answer. It's as simple as that.

It's also simple that the idea of a dead "carcase" is not a comparison of Christ's servants who remain faithful. And that's why His Luke 17:37 answer is in the negative sense, carcases gathered by birds of prey. It's about reprobates, those who fall away from Him. God used birds of prey, fowls, to represent how Satan and his servants destroy, and there are many Bible examples of that, including in The New Testament (even within our Lord's sower parables). So I see no need to do a list thing here. Most of us should already know about them through simple Bible study (Ezek.17 and Obadiah 1 for a couple).

Deut 28:49
49 The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;
(KJV)

Thus because of our Lord's answer in the last verse of Luke 17, those "taken" are gathered to false ones, "eagles" for a bird of prey as a symbol for them. And if you understand in nature that eagles don't usually go after what is already dead ("carcase"), but vultures do, then that represents another level to that metaphor also, pointing to how Satan covets God's Place and Throne and claimed he will sit upon "the mount of the congregation in the north", meaning over His people (Isaiah 14; 2 Thess.2:3-4).

In Deut.32:11-12, God compares His protection of His people as an eagle does over its young. But there's no applying that Luke 17:37 (and Matt.24:28) eagles to Him, for He does not gather what is dead, vultures do.

Christ explained the idea of how v.34-36 "taken" is meant when He
answered His disciple's question of "Where, Lord?"... i.e., wherethose
would be taken to. Luke 17:37 is Christ's answer to His disciple's question about Luke 17:34-36. So all those verses are together specifically about the "that night", which is a pointer to what time and event?

to answer your question first i
would be referring to the rapture but i am not sure. i believe v37
holds the key but i cannot figure out the meaning yet.

If we tried to separate Christ's answer to His disciples from His mention of those taken, then the whole Message would go to the wayside. I cannot help that's exactly what some men's traditions are doing today, but those men exist to tempt up away from our Lord and His Truth. They often pull out select verses to fit their own doctrine and leave the rest, which is why our Lord's answer to His disciples in Luke 17:37 is often left out of their preaching.

Our Lord Jesus warned us about the "hireling" within His Body that preaches for money (John 10). So we shouldn't be shocked there's many in the pulpits that do that skipping. I imagine some pastors are well meaning with skipping the explanation of Luke 17:37, likely because they might think it would confuse many in the congregation. Still no excuse, because Christ's answer is what determines in what sense being "taken" means, and it's in the negative sense, not about a gathering to Him. That's makes the Luke 17 "taken" idea a warning Message from our Lord Jesus, not the rapture.

Luke 17:26-32
are all together according to subject context, Christ's warning of the
previous destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah used in comparison of the
wicked destroyed on the day of His coming. There's a reason why He gave
"that night" in contrast.

those verses could be referring
also to what the would will be like and how lot symbolizes the church
and will be saved from the tribulation to come. remember that the new
testament reveals the old testament. every story in the old testament
in some way reveals Christ. otherwise where did Jesus get his
revelation(don't get religious on me here please)? the word teaches
that by the word of 2 or 3 witnesses will his word be established. in
other words for every statement in the bible there are at least 2 or
more scriptures that will support each other. the new testament was
built off of the old testament according to scripture so somewhere there
is proof to support the new testament teaching.

A simple Bible crossreference tool (like a Strong's Concordance) will reveal all The Bible references to that of "eagles". I don't think the idea of a dead "carcase" needs any further explanation, especially since Matt.24:28 defined how Luke 17:37 means it. As for the idea of the wicked 'dead' put for those who are not gathered to Christ Jesus, that's not difficult to discover in God's Word either. Our Lord Jesus even applied the idea of the spiritually blind walking upon the earth as being like the dead (Matt.23:27). So how could one miss that? If one is determined to change our Lord's answer about the dead carcase gathered to eagles, then they reveal a problem with what and who they've chosen to heed.

Luke 17:33
is about the tribulation timing. Those who seek to preserve their life
for that time means following the pseudo-Christ that is to appear during
the future tribulation, in false worship, to save their life, and thus
those will be lost to Christ. But those who lose their life during that
time for Christ will have preserved their life unto eternal life through
Jesus Christ.

v33 is referring to giving Jesus
our all and not looking back and remember not to take v33 out of context
because Jesus is now talking of Lot's wife and her actions. what you
say here about your explanation of v33 is unscriptural because it is not
because we were killed for Christ that will bring us eternal life. rom
10:9 tells us what is required for eternal life and being killed for
Christ or living for Christ will not get you to heaven unless you meet
the requirements of rom 10:9.

Luke 17:33 in context of Christ's subject there is about the time just prior to His coming, and then His coming. Hard to miss that especially with Luke 17:26. Not all of us will be killed in the coming tribulation, so I was never inferring that one must be in order to be saved; you should never enterain that kind of idea anyway. But we are shown some will be beheaded for Christ, being delivered up to give a Testimony for Him (5th Seal in Rev.6 and Matt:24:9 ought to be enough). And that is exactly what the Luke 17:33 time reference is about, about those of His that will... be killed for Him during the tribulation. That verse is closely associated with the Rev.2:10 verse.

This is why in Luke 17:34
our Lord Jesus uses the concept of "in that night..." about those taken
and those left, because it's specifically about the tribulation time
that will occur prior to His return.

the pre trib rapture fits into your
explaination you have posted here. pretrib rapture also goes along
with v34-36. it takes more faith to believe your explanation for me
then to believe in the pretrib rapture.

If you want to believe in the pre-trib rapture, fine, go to. But that's not what those verses are pointing to, nor is what my... explanation of those Scriptures show.

If you want to be a dead "carcase" gathered to false eagles, then that's your choice, because that's the warning our Lord Jesus gave us there when He answered His disciple's question in Luke 17:37. I'm not going to sugarcoat that fact for you.

My explanation is NOT dependent upon what you've chosen to heed, because Christ's Words there are plain enough.

 

[7angels]

I'll try to make it easier, but it's difficult since the metaphors our Lord Jesus is giving are there to make it easy to grasp, so trying to make it more easy can get confusing.

The Luke 17:37 and Matt.24:28 verses are our Lord Jesus' answer to His disciple's question of where those taken would be taken to. I've already said in my previous post, and now I've said it again. He mentioned to them about the one taken and other left, His disciples asked Him "Where, Lord?", and He gave the answer. It's as simple as that.

It's also simple that the idea of a dead "carcase" is not a comparison of Christ's servants who remain faithful. And that's why His Luke 17:37 answer is in the negative sense, carcases gathered by birds of prey. It's about reprobates, those who fall away from Him. God used birds of prey, fowls, to represent how Satan and his servants destroy, and there are many Bible examples of that, including in The New Testament (even within our Lord's sower parables). So I see no need to do a list thing here. Most of us should already know about them through simple Bible study (Ezek.17 and Obadiah 1 for a couple).

Deut 28:49
49 The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;
(KJV)

Thus because of our Lord's answer in the last verse of Luke 17, those "taken" are gathered to false ones, "eagles" for a bird of prey as a symbol for them. And if you understand in nature that eagles don't usually go after what is already dead ("carcase"), but vultures do, then that represents another level to that metaphor also, pointing to how Satan covets God's Place and Throne and claimed he will sit upon "the mount of the congregation in the north", meaning over His people (Isaiah 14; 2 Thess.2:3-4).

In Deut.32:11-12, God compares His protection of His people as an eagle does over its young. But there's no applying that Luke 17:37 (and Matt.24:28) eagles to Him, for He does not gather what is dead, vultures do.

how do you explain why there are 2 different greek words for body used? strongs #4983 and #4430. so if 2 different words are used would show us 2 different meanings or ideas. i hear what you are saying but it makes more sense in matt 24:28 then it does in luke 17:37. so by your own explanation you are saying that when asked where these people disappear to, Jesus replies that where the false christians are there will Satan who covets God's Place and Throne will sit upon the mount of the congregation in the north(rule over his people). this sounds a little far fetched.

If we tried to separate Christ's answer to His disciples from His mention of those taken, then the whole Message would go to the wayside. I cannot help that's exactly what some men's traditions are doing today, but those men exist to tempt up away from our Lord and His Truth. They often pull out select verses to fit their own doctrine and leave the rest, which is why our Lord's answer to His disciples in Luke 17:37 is often left out of their preaching.

Our Lord Jesus warned us about the "hireling" within His Body that preaches for money (John 10). So we shouldn't be shocked there's many in the pulpits that do that skipping. I imagine some pastors are well meaning with skipping the explanation of Luke 17:37, likely because they might think it would confuse many in the congregation. Still no excuse, because Christ's answer is what determines in what sense being "taken" means, and it's in the negative sense, not about a gathering to Him. That's makes the Luke 17 "taken" idea a warning Message from our Lord Jesus, not the rapture.

A simple Bible crossreference tool (like a Strong's Concordance) will reveal all The Bible references to that of "eagles". I don't think the idea of a dead "carcase" needs any further explanation, especially since Matt.24:28 defined how Luke 17:37 means it. As for the idea of the wicked 'dead' put for those who are not gathered to Christ Jesus, that's not difficult to discover in God's Word either. Our Lord Jesus even applied the idea of the spiritually blind walking upon the earth as being like the dead (Matt.23:27). So how could one miss that? If one is determined to change our Lord's answer about the dead carcase gathered to eagles, then they reveal a problem with what and who they've chosen to heed.
if matt 24:28 explains verse luke 17:37 then why are 2 different words used to explain body?

Luke 17:33 in context of Christ's subject there is about the time just prior to His coming, and then His coming. Hard to miss that especially with Luke 17:26. Not all of us will be killed in the coming tribulation, so I was never inferring that one must be in order to be saved; you should never enterain that kind of idea anyway. But we are shown some will be beheaded for Christ, being delivered up to give a Testimony for Him (5th Seal in Rev.6 and Matt:24:9 ought to be enough). And that is exactly what the Luke 17:33 time reference is about, about those of His that will... be killed for Him during the tribulation. That verse is closely associated with the Rev.2:10 verse.
when i read those verses i see it talking about what the world will be like before Jesus' receiving of the church and what we are to do to be ready. would you like me to explain my reasoning?

If you want to believe in the pre-trib rapture, fine, go to. But that's not what those verses are pointing to, nor is what my... explanation of those Scriptures show.

If you want to be a dead "carcase" gathered to false eagles, then that's your choice, because that's the warning our Lord Jesus gave us there when He answered His disciple's question in Luke 17:37. I'm not going to sugarcoat that fact for you.

My explanation is NOT dependent upon what you've chosen to heed, because Christ's Words there are plain enough.

don't assume one way is correct without a study of your own but also don't assume one way is correct because you have always believed and been taught that way. so far you have not been able to convince me that my ideas are wrong. so far you have only been able to give me your interpretation of what scripture means without evidence and reason enough to convince me that my views are wrong.

God bless

 

[veteran]

don't assume one way is correct without a study of your own but also don't assume one way is correct because you have always believed and been taught that way. so far you have not been able to convince me that my ideas are wrong. so far you have only been able to give me your interpretation of what scripture means without evidence and reason enough to convince me that my views are wrong.

God bless

What our Lord Jesus said there is correct, and it actually needs NO further explanation as being in the negative, as a warning for us.

You don't know what I've always been taught nor believed, and by saying that you are trying to create strife and bear false witness, simply because it's obviously YOU that has been raised in a pre-trib rapture belief system that YOU find impossible to get rid of!

So go to, run with the goats to those fake eagles and become a dead "carcase" like our Lord Jesus warned! Send those false ones you listen to more money while you're at it. You obviously deserve what's coming upon you, because of the hardness of your heart away from our Lord's warning there in Luke 17!