Only Believers are Resurrected?

[GEN2REV]

@GEN2REV
Hi. This discussion isn't as simple as your OP suggests. ... There is the issue of the millennium... Are there people living in the earth during the millennium, or are they in heaven?

It doesn't overlook the Millennium at all, it is directly related to that concept.

There will not be any such thing as an immortal sinner.

That is largely what this thread is proving out, and it is also confirmed by the Enoch verses mentioned in the posts to Enoch111.

... this second death takes place at the end of the millennium when

It is a very imbalanced dogma to believe in, and observe, the 7th Day Sabbath while also embracing the Pre-Mil Millennium doctrine as well. One of the proofs of Pre-Mil (for them) is that the 1,000 yr period after Christ IS the 7th Day, it is the 7th 1,000 yr period; connected to the belief that Creation Week was a series of 1,000 year periods. All absolutely false.

If you have the light to comprehend the Truth of the Sabbath, you would have the light to see that all end time passages of Scripture completely contradict Rev. 20.

I have been looking for a long time for the holes in your dogma since you are fanatical about Owls, which have no Christian significance whatsoever. Now I have found it.

You and Randy Kluth believe no Christian has the sense to notice that he has an owl in the darkness as his Avatar and you have had nothing but one owl image after another since the day I arrived here.

Your Millennium doctrine that you apparently embrace and push is the exposed teeth of your get-up, along with your owl avatars.

You are yet another wolf here and I've known it from the beginning. Your credibility is now fully destroyed for very good reason.

 

[GEN2REV]

People are not raised because they are 'capable'.

This is really the only statement worth responding to. And the Bible disagrees with you.

In John 6, Jesus tells us that He ONLY raises those His Father sends to Him; He also tells us we do not, and can not, have spiritual Life within us unless certain things take place. That means we cannot be resurrected unless these things have happened.

Therefore, the masses of sinning unbelievers will not be raised.

The Millennium period after Christ's return doesn't happen.

The Pre-Trib Rapture doesn't happen.

All easily proven with Scripture.

 

[dad]

This is really the only statement worth responding to. And the Bible disagrees with you.

In John 6, Jesus tells us that He ONLY raises those His Father sends to Him; He also tells us we do not, and can not, have spiritual Life within us unless certain things take place. That means we cannot be resurrected unless these things have happened.

We are raised because He is capable of raising us. We are raised to everlasting life because we chose Jesus. In any case He is the One that raises us. Your claim that the bible disagrees is less than ludicrous to put it politely.

Therefore, the masses of sinning unbelievers will not be raised.

Yet raised they will be the bible says. Some to everlasting shame and others to everlasting life. What, did you think we ceased to exist when we died, whether saved or not??

The Millennium period after Christ's return doesn't happen.

Speaking of not worth responding to -- thanks for that.

The Pre-Trib Rapture doesn't happen.

All easily proven with Scripture.

No need to argue about it. I know better.

 

[JunChosen]

Well, there are at least two places I could go with it.

Well, I can assume neither will be correct.

John 5:28 is the same verse that is being repeatedly offered here as proof of two resurrections, but all that verse shows is a single resurrection with two outcomes for those who are raised.[/I]

John 5:28 shows a single resurrection is BECAUSE there IS only one resurrection for everyone! 2 Corinthians 5:10 reads:
10) "We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that everyone may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11) Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men...."

ETA: As Enoch and the Gospels tell us, the sinful dead go straight to hell upon death. No reason at all to raise them; they have been judged.

Sorry, but the Book of Enoch is not in the Bible and therefore, NOT INSPIRED.

The sinful dead DO NOT go straight to hell!!! They go to a place of "silence."
Psalms 115:17-18 reads:
17) The dead [unsaved] praise not the LORD, neither any that go down in silence.
18) But we will bless the LORD from this time forth and forevermore. Praise the LORD.

Matthew 25:31-34 reads:
31) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne the throne of his glory:
32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.
34) Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

In contrast, believers go straight to heaven upon death.

2 Corinthians 5:6-8 reads:
6) Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7) (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

One resurrection one event!!!

To God Be The Glory

 

[dad]

10) "We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that everyone may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11) Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men...."

Who is the 'we' here? Looking at the context in an earlier verse, it is pretty clear.

2 Corinthians 5:1
For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

That is not about the unsaved dead by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[reformed1689]

If by resurrected you mean to Glory in Heaven, yes, only believers, but if by resurrected you mean only believers continue on for eternity, no. Unbelievers have everlasting damnation in the flames of the Lake of Fire.

 

[JunChosen]

Who is the 'we' here? Looking at the context in an earlier verse, it is pretty clear.

2 Corinthians 5:1
For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

That is not about the unsaved dead by any stretch of the imagination.

Please read verse 11 and you will know.

 

[GEN2REV]

Well, I can assume neither will be correct.

Well, when you assume, you make an ass of yourself.

John 5:28 shows a single resurrection is BECAUSE there IS only one resurrection for everyone!
Matthew 25:31-34

This verse doesn't prove anything to the contrary. All nations means all races in the Bible. Look it up. That means everyone that is resurrected will be of every race upon the earth, not that every single person will be resurrected, sinners and all.

One resurrection one event!!!

Agreed.

 

[GEN2REV]

We are raised to everlasting life because we chose Jesus. In any case He is the One that raises us.

I've already directed you to the verses that show you are mistaken. If you're honestly mistaken, you have the choice to cease being mistaken or cease being honest.

Choosing Jesus is not hardly enough to be saved. It is not in OUR power to save ourselves. It is not in OUR power to resurrect ourselves.

The Bible does not teach what you are claiming.

"No man can come to Me unless the Father draws him, and I will raise him (he who the Father draws to the Word - ONLY) up at the last day."
John 6:44

Yet raised they (sinners) will be the bible says.

Post the Bible verse that claims that sinners will be resurrected.

It is ONLY those who God calls that will be resurrected.

Many are called, but few are chosen.
Matthew 22:14
Jesus gives a shout, a call, when He returns and only His sheep (that have been given to Him by the Father) can hear His voice.
1 Thessalonians 4:16
John 10:27

Of those He calls, many are rejected after their resurrection, as you so eloquently describe it here:

Some to everlasting shame and others to everlasting life.

Yes, John 5:29

What, did you think we ceased to exist when we died, whether saved or not??

It's actually irrelevant. What matters is that unbelieving sinners are not resurrected. Once the Father calls somebody to Christ (the Word - John 6:44), they will then undoubtedly be resurrected by Jesus upon His return. What happens after that is based entirely on their conduct after being called to Christ by the Father; after being gifted with resurrection faith.
Ephesians 2:8

 

[GEN2REV]

If by resurrected you mean to Glory in Heaven, yes, only believers, but if by resurrected you mean only believers continue on for eternity, no. Unbelievers have everlasting damnation in the flames of the Lake of Fire.

I mean what the Bible means by resurrection.

The physical body pulled up from the earth, the grave or tomb, and reassembled and raised into the sky to meet the Lord. Not just the spirit.

Resurrection means something brought back to life. So if we're talking about spirits, that doesn't fit the bill. There must be a physical re-animating of the remains, and reunion with the spirit/soul, in some supernatural way.

1 Enoch chapter 20 and Luke 16:19-31 confirm the fiery final destination of unbelieving sinners, and that they go there immediately upon death. Not after the Pre-Mil 1,000 years after Christ's return.

 

[Brakelite]

It doesn't overlook the Millennium at all, it is directly related to that concept.That is largely what this thread is proving out, and it is also confirmed by the Enoch verses mentioned in the posts to Enoch111.
It is a very imbalanced dogma to believe in, and observe, the 7th Day Sabbath while also embracing the Pre-Mil Millennium doctrine as well. One of the proofs of Pre-Mil (for them) is that the 1,000 yr period after Christ IS the 7th Day, it is the 7th 1,000 yr period; connected to the belief that Creation Week was a series of 1,000 year periods. All absolutely false.

If you have the light to comprehend the Truth of the Sabbath, you would have the light to see that all end time passages of Scripture completely contradict Rev. 20.

I have been looking for a long time for the holes in your dogma since you are fanatical about Owls, which have no Christian significance whatsoever. Now I have found it.

You and Randy Kluth believe no Christian has the sense to notice that he has an owl in the darkness as his Avatar and you have had nothing but one owl image after another since the day I arrived here.

Your Millennium doctrine that you apparently embrace and push is the exposed teeth of your get-up, along with your owl avatars.

You are yet another wolf here and I've known it from the beginning. Your credibility is now fully destroyed for very good reason.

 

[Brakelite]

all end time passages of Scripture completely contradict Rev. 20.

And here I thought you were actually searching for understanding and further insight into the topic of resurrection, seeing that you said...

This concept is new to me, but is very significant if it's accurate.

I have spoken to Truth7t7 and respect his opinion to the contrary.

The more I study scripture, the more evidence I find for this possibility. And there is ample evidence.

But I was wrong. You've already made up your mind and willing to designate others to the trash bin if they dare suggest different. And the above statement on end time prophecy contradicting Revelation 20? And you admit it's a new topic for you yet you are so bold to speak so vehemently against the harmony of scripture?
And how dare you speak ill of my owls!!!

 

[GEN2REV]

And here I thought you were actually searching for understanding and further insight into the topic of resurrection

Oh, I am. But because EVERYBODY here is threatened by it, due to its contradicting their agenda, nobody WILL discuss it outside of the same repeating denial.

You've already made up your mind and willing to designate others to the trash bin if they dare suggest different. And the above statement on end time prophecy contradicting Revelation 20?

I've continued to study and pray about confirmation of the concept, one way or the other. God hasn't shown me any contradictory verses; on the contrary, He led me to 1 Enoch 20 completely out of the blue the other day. Go figure.

About Rev. 20, you should study up on what Ellen G. White believed, and taught, concerning the Millennium. If you're gonna play the part convincingly, that is. And it wasn't the traditional Pre-Mil view at all.

And you admit it's a new topic for you yet you are so bold to speak so vehemently against the harmony of scripture?

It is. Very new.

The harmony of Scripture? Rev. 20 isn't in harmony at all with end time doctrine of the Bible. It stands all alone. And rightfully so; it is not to be taken literally ... per Jesus Christ and John himself.

And how dare you speak ill of my owls!!!

The Brotherhood of the Owl. It is what it is.

Jesus dropped the brille from my eyes.

 

[GEN2REV]

Who is the 'we' here? Looking at the context in an earlier verse, it is pretty clear.

2 Corinthians 5:1
For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

That is not about the unsaved dead by any stretch of the imagination.

I know you didn't direct that to me, but we are in agreement.

Tabernacle is a reference to the temple of the Holy Spirit (God). No unsaved dead can refer to their body as a tabernacle.

That can only be a reference to the body of a believer.

 

[Brakelite]

Oh, I am. But because EVERYBODY here is threatened by it, due to its contradicting their agenda, nobody WILL discuss it outside of the same repeating denial.I've continued to study and pray about confirmation of the concept, one way or the other. God hasn't shown me any contradictory verses; on the contrary, He led me to 1 Enoch 20 completely out of the blue the other day. Go figure.

About Rev. 20, you should study up on what Ellen G. White believed, and taught, concerning the Millennium. If you're gonna play the part convincingly, that is. And it wasn't the traditional Pre-Mil view at all. It is. Very new.

The harmony of Scripture? Rev. 20 isn't in harmony at all with end time doctrine of the Bible. It stands all alone. And rightfully so; it is not to be taken literally ... per Jesus Christ and John himself.
The Brotherhood of the Owl. It is what it is.

Jesus dropped the brille from my eyes.

Aaah. You see the owls as a form of occultic brotherhood... Moloch... And ummm, that political elite gathering in the woods in California... Can't remember their name. Lol. I assure you, I am less fraternally inclined with such than I am with snakes. And I've never handled a snake.
No, I just love owls. They fascinate me as part of God's wonderful creation. 7 day creation btw.

 

[Brakelite]

About Rev. 20, you should study up on what Ellen G. White believed, and taught, concerning the Millennium.

I am well aware of our church's perspective on Revelation 20, and find it to be in complete harmony with scripture and prophecy. It's one of the reasons I joined the church.

 

[GEN2REV]

7 day creation btw.

6 days.

I am well aware of our church's perspective on Revelation 20, and find it to be in complete harmony with scripture and prophecy. It's one of the reasons I joined the church.

I can't know what your church teaches, but what Ellen taught was worth looking into. Pretty interesting.

She taught that upon Jesus' return, He gathered all His saints, destroyed all sinners and left the earth desolate for a thousand years with the devil to be left upon the desolate earth during that time frame. No second resurrection at the end, just the initial one at Christ's return.

Granted, that is a 1,000 year period after Christ's return, which I don't agree with, but it does not allow for the traditional Pre-Mil 1,000 year period where mankind remains upon the earth during that 1,000 years and all those things go down over that time leading up to the release of the devil to tempt them all again and gather armies and so on and so forth.

So, on the one hand, she taught a strange Millennium doctrine, but it was not the common doctrine that is so widely taught today, the one that you claimed you embrace.

Just interesting information for you to know if you're SDA.

 

[Brakelite]

6 days.
I can't know what your church teaches, but what Ellen taught was worth looking into. Pretty interesting.

She taught that upon Jesus' return, He gathered all His saints, destroyed all sinners and left the earth desolate for a thousand years with the devil to be left upon the desolate earth during that time frame. No second resurrection at the end, just the initial one at Christ's return.

Granted, that is a 1,000 year period after Christ's return, which I don't agree with, but it does not allow for the traditional Pre-Mil 1,000 year period where mankind remains upon the earth during that 1,000 years and all those things go down over that time leading up to the release of the devil to tempt them all again and gather armies and so on and so forth.

So, on the one hand, she taught a strange Millennium doctrine, but it was not the common doctrine that is so widely taught today, the one that you claimed you embrace.

Just interesting information for you to know if you're SDA.

You need to revamp your understanding of Adventist beliefs. The millennium doctrine we teach, which you correctly understood in part, and that Ellen White endorsed, includes a post millennial resurrection of all the wicked... Hence the armies gathered around the city.

 

[Brakelite]

During the thousand years between the first and the second resurrection the judgment of the wicked takes place. The apostle Paul points to this judgment as an event that follows the second advent. "Judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels the hearts." 1 Corinthians 4:5. Daniel declares that when the Ancient of Days came, "judgment was given to the saints of the Most High." Daniel 7:22. At this time the righteous reign as kings and priests unto God. John in the Revelation says: "I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them." "They shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years." Revelation 20:4, 6. It is at this time that, as foretold by Paul, "the saints shall judge the world." 1 Corinthians 6:2. In union with Christ they judge the wicked, comparing their acts with the statute book, the Bible, and deciding every case according to the deeds done in the body. Then the portion which the wicked must suffer is meted out, according to their works; and it is recorded against their names in the book of death. {Great Controversy 660, 661}

 

[Brakelite]

At the close of the thousand years the second resurrection will take place. Then the wicked will be raised from the dead and appear before God for the execution of "the judgment written." Thus the revelator, after describing the resurrection of the righteous, says: "The rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished." Revelation 20:5. And Isaiah declares, concerning the wicked: "They shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited." Isaiah 24:22. {GC 661}