OSAS beginning ?

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Bible_Gazer

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You did not understand a word i said

Reread again please this time open your mind and try not to think about how to prove me wrong.
OK....maybe I don't understand you.
Who is lukewarm ?
one person or a collective or the system
He is rebuking and chastening them.
told to repent
Any man hear my voice.
to him that overcometh
I read it he talking to the saints who are lukewarm in that church group.

What am I missing ?
 

Eternally Grateful

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OK....maybe I don't understand you.
Who is lukewarm ?
one person or a collective or the system
He is rebuking and chastening them.
told to repent
Any man hear my voice.
to him that overcometh
I read it he talking to the saints who are lukewarm in that church group.

What am I missing ?

he called the church lukewarm. And said he would remove the lamp stand from the church

not individual people. A church is a collection of people like I explained
 

Bible_Gazer

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he called the church lukewarm. And said he would remove the lamp stand from the church

not individual people. A church is a collection of people like I explained
Well either way the church or some people in the church somebody was lukewarm.
If the whole church was lukewarm, then everyone was in trouble.

you got two groups mixed up
Ephesus church needed to repent or lose their candlestick salvation.
Laodicean church saints were lukewarm also needed to repent to save themselves.
 
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Invisibilis

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But regardless of which side of the fence you are on, it's meaningless. The reason it's meaningless is because he doesn't let us know if we are saved.
2 Corinthians 12:9 ..."My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness."...

Our inner being 'loves' the Truth. That 'in-loveness' is sufficient.
 

Getitright

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So you can not go to the passages and show how I took them out of context. You just accuse with no proof

thank you

I will continue to believe as I do unless you can show how I took them out of context

You said interpretation, not context. I showed how your interpretation was wrong. Jesus said some believe for a while and fall away. That shows that salvation is conditional.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Well either way the church or some people in the church somebody was lukewarm.
If the whole church was lukewarm, then everyone was in trouble.

you got two groups mixed up
Ephesus church needed to repent or lose their
candlestick
salvation.
Laodicean church saints were lukewarm also needed to repent to save themselves.
All of them were told to repent or their candlestick would be lost

it is dangerous to assume all churches are full of believers. Many false people attend out churches, people who think they are saved, and they need to repent and be saved

but revelation is NOT about individuals, it is about a church,

when God said he would spew them out of his mouth he meant the church,

I have seen many a church seemingly strong and vibrant, within a few years collapse and die to cease to exist.
 
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Eternally Grateful

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You said interpretation, not context. I showed how your interpretation was wrong. Jesus said some believe for a while and fall away. That shows that salvation is conditional.
1, you asked for context, I showed context
2. You have yet to show how got the context wrong, you have yet to even touch any of the passages I gave
3. Belief has never saved anyone, many people fallowed jesus for the wrong reason. Even in John 6 many so called believers and disciples left, why? Because of lack of faith,
4. If salvation is conditional, we have conditional life, not eternal life we are saved by works, not by Grace, we are trying to earn salvation, because we are worthy, not fall on our knees and ask God for mercy because we acknowledge our unworthiness

you want to try to earn the GIFT of God with is unearnable? Good luck.

otherwise, until you look into the passages I gave and show how I took them out of context, this will be my last response,
 

Bible_Gazer

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A person who come to God because the wanted to be saved from death.
He believe and call on salvation, so now he is OSAS ??
But....the person didn't come because he loved God, just wanted to be saved from death.
Is this type of person saved ? If he dies this way
 

Eternally Grateful

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A person who come to God because the wanted to be saved from death. He believe and call on salvation, so now he is OSAS ??
If he repented and came to true faith in Christ yes. If he just did it to try to save himself by had no faith. No even demons believe
But....the person didn't come because he loved God, just wanted to be saved from death.
Is this type of person saved ? If he dies this way
You have no capacity to love God before salvation. You can claim you do. But you would be filling yourself

we love because god loves us

we have not experienced Gods love unless we were adopted into his family through remission of sin
 
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Getitright

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1, you asked for context, I showed context
2. You have yet to show how got the context wrong, you have yet to even touch any of the passages I gave
3. Belief has never saved anyone, many people fallowed jesus for the wrong reason. Even in John 6 many so called believers and disciples left, why? Because of lack of faith,
4. If salvation is conditional, we have conditional life, not eternal life we are saved by works, not by Grace, we are trying to earn salvation, because we are worthy, not fall on our knees and ask God for mercy because we acknowledge our unworthiness

you want to try to earn the GIFT of God with is unearnable? Good luck.

otherwise, until you look into the passages I gave and show how I took them out of context, this will be my last response,

This is a typical response when one doesn't have an argument. You threw out a couple of references. You didn't even give verse numbers, just chapters. As if I'm supposed to read your mind and see how you understand a chapter. You referred to things Jesus said, but when you supposedly put them in context you didn't mention that Jesus said His ministry was only to the Jews. That would require you to show how those words apply to everyone, You didn't do that. You've also still refused to address the passages that clearly show that some believers fall away. Ignoring those passages that don't agree with your theology is not exegesis.

Our life now is conditional. As I've pointed out, eternal life comes after death, not now. Peter too, tells us that salvation is revealed at the end time.

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. (1 Pet. 1:5 KJV)

Notice his words, they are kept by the power of God, through faith, unto, or, "eis" salvation ready TO BE revealed at the last time.

The Greek word "eis" means to move towards. It implies motion towards something. So, they are kept by God through faith towards something. That something is salvation. Salvation is the goal. Notice what He says about that salvation, it is "TO BE" revealed. "TO BE" indicates a future act. He didn't say that were being kept by God through faith unto salvation that had "already" been revealed. He said it was "TO BE" revealed. That's a future event. He also said that it would be revealed at the last time.

Also, the idea that one does nothing in salvation is in error. Paul tells us that Jesus became eternal salvation to those who obey him.

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; (Heb. 5:9 KJV)

Obeying Him requires one to do something.

The "not of works" argument comes out of a misunderstanding of Paul's writings on works. What people miss is that Paul was refuting the Judiazers who were telling his converts that in addition to faith in Christ they also needed to keep the Law of Moses. This is what Paul was arguing against. If you look at his writings virtually everywhere you see him saying someone isn't saved by works you see a mention of the Mosaic Law.
 

Ezra

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A person who come to God because the wanted to be saved from death.
He believe and call on salvation, so now he is OSAS ??
But....the person didn't come because he loved God, just wanted to be saved from death.
Is this type of person saved ? If he dies this way
what does the Bible say? whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be - - - - - ? how many times? once we do have security in our salvation the whole thing of this post is to create a argument of can you lose salvation or can you not. it depends on you ask . let ask how many has went to sleep and woke up faering your no longer saved. how many =has sinned and said your still saved ?
answer these questions
 

Bible_Gazer

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What about those heavenly angels.
They believed in God, surely God loved them.
Yet some lost out and sinned.
Maybe in the same situation as Adam and Eve.
Made good and failed later.
Angels cast out and Adam and Eve cast out also.

What about a sinner who gets saved, all sins forgiven made a new person, good at that point.
Now the new person sins and go back to the old ways.
Is he not like as those that failed being good first and now bad.
OSAS is a puzzle

Matthew 24:13
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
 

Ezra

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What about those heavenly angels.
They believed in God, surely God loved them.
Yet some lost out and sinned.
Maybe in the same situation as Adam and Eve.
Made good and failed later.
Angels cast out and Adam and Eve cast out also.

What about a sinner who gets saved, all sins forgiven made a new person, good at that point.
Now the new person sins and go back to the old ways.
Is he not like as those that failed being good first and now bad.
OSAS is a puzzle

Matthew 24:13
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
what does the Bible say? whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be - - - - - ? how many times? once we do have security in our salvation the whole thing of this post is to create a argument of can you lose salvation or can you not. it depends on you ask . let ask how many has went to sleep and woke up faering your no longer saved. how many =has sinned and said your still saved ?
answer these questions
 

Ezra

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Angels cast out and Adam and Eve cast out also.
sigh ,,, lets see do angels need to be saved ? no there not humans Adam and eve was cast out of the garden . but not before God covered there sin of nakedness :eek:
 

Ezra

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was the questions to hard ? if your going to discuss osas one has to know what they are talking about. along with guidelines
 

Bible_Gazer

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sigh ,,, lets see do angels need to be saved ? no there not humans Adam and eve was cast out of the garden . but not before God covered there sin of nakedness :eek:
Now we are talking about the fallen angels that sinned.
Were these fallen angels under the care of God ?
Were angels saved before they fell.
Did they have laws that they could break ?
It must be the OSAS did not exist in heaven for them.
Those who rejected God, even tho they knew God are lost. cast out

So Adam and Eve.
Yes different kind of body than the angels, but the same in heart.
Did they not know God and were they made good like the angels ?
Some people believe Adam and Eve will not get a resurrection.
I don't know if they will get one or not, but I think God gave them hope for one.
Just don't know how they ended up dying.

A born again person that is made good at that point when sin is repented of and decides to reject
God as the angels did, how can they not be cast out.
Won't their name be blotted out of the book of the living ?
 

Ezra

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A born again person that is made good at that point when sin is repented of and decides to reject
God as the angels did, how can they not be cast out.
Won't their name be blotted out of the book of the living ?
i dont preach or teach either way can or cant . the scripture tells us how to live . peter wrote he has given us ALL things
His divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him that hath called us to glory and virtue.i believe a true child of God will find his way back when it comes to who is saved and who is not.. that is not our call. God will Judge the secrets of man heart...
Romans 2:16

“In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.” i see people and listen to them and think there not saved .. then my own rooster crows and i remember my faults . i have seen this type posting many times and it will never be settled. we can know we have eternal life we can know were going to heaven and yes we can be secure in Christ. for as many scriptures posted . trying to prove a person can lose salvation/walkaway. i can show security in scriptures . i am not one of these who think if one stays in sin they still make it just no rewards . all the 2 doctrines do is create strife
 

Bible_Gazer

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why would God cover them if that be the case. there are many lessons to be learned from the garden
Some think that they had eternal life abiding in them.
They rejected God's law and lost their eternal life.
So to say they had the Holy Ghost and lost it.

I agree about God covering them, giving them hope in not being lost.
Their own covering was not expectable to cover their sins.