Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Wrong
it was taught by Christ, most evident in the writings of his beloved disciple John. Who states the knowledge that we HAVE eternal life is so essential. Out continued faith is dependent on it,
OSAS beginning ?
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it was taught by Christ, most evident in the writings of his beloved disciple John. Who states the knowledge that we HAVE eternal life is so essential. Out continued faith is dependent on it,
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Eternal security proponents believe true repentance for salvation happened before one is saved. (Without it no one could come to Christ)
and ongoing repentance (changing of our hearts from human viewpoint to Gods) continues as one matures in Christ
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
John 6:63
It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
2 Timothy 3:15
and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus
Romans 10:17
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Ephesians 5:26
that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word
Getitright
Active Member
No, It's not wrong. John taught no such thing. People simply misunderstand what John wrote based on preconceptions they bring to the text. We know that John didn't teach it because his disciples didn't teach it. The Early church didn't teach it. They actually argued against it as a heresy. It doesn't appear in the Church until the Reformation some 1400 years after Christianity came into being. Augustine proposed the idea and it was rejected by the Church.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
John did not teach it?
John 3. He who believes will NEVER DIE. But HAS ETERNAL LIFE (live forever)
John 4. Ask, and you will recieve rivers of living water flowing to eternal life
John 6. Take What jesus offers. And you will NEVER hunger, NEVER thirst, NEVER DIE, Live FOREVER, HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. WILL be raised on the last day And will live as Long as Jesus lives, Well since Jesus will never die.. yeah
And then the kicker. Johns final words to those who wrote to in his epistle. What I spoke of in my first post
1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
I can not KNOW I have something God calls eternal. If as you say, salvation is not secure
We call that conditional life. Not eternal life
Getitright
Active Member
Can explain those passages in context? The Bible isn't a bunch of proof texts. Everything that is written is written within a certain context. If we're just going to pull a sentence here and there we can claim the Bible says just about anything we want. What you didn't post were the conditional verses that were also spoken. For instance, Jesus said some believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.
Notice how eternal life works.
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? (Jn. 11:25-26 KJV)
Notice that the one who believes did die. So, eternal life begins at the Resurrection.
Notice that the "shall never die" part happens after the resurrection. So, in the mean time while we're alive we need to make sure we don't fall away.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
1. God does not just say things to waste his breath, if he says them, we should trust what he says
2. John 3 is about being born again, IE. Born spiritually from above, Jesus tells nicodemus, unless he is born again, he can not enter the kingdom of God. And he tells him how. Whoever believes, is not only made alive. But we are told how long he will stay alive (eternal)
3. John 4 is jesus explaining to a woman that drinking water from a well is good. It sustains our lives a d nourishes our bodies (a body can not live without it) and a true fact. Whoever drinks of that water will thirst again, but i it not better to ask for the water that will let us live forever? (Ie.they will never thirst again
13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”
John 6 is the same
Don’t search or work for food which perishes, but for food which will endure to eternal life. Which Jesus will give. As he said, whoever eats of them food will live forever. Never hunger or thirst, never die. HAS eternal life and will (not might) be raised by him on the last day (is being delivered to him at judgment day)
1 John is specific. He wrote all he write to prove to us we have eternal life right now. And by this knowledge we will continue to believe in hm.
As for the passage you used. It supports what I said, Whoever lives and believes in me shall never die. This is called eternal life.
Remember, John said whoever sins has never seen or known God. Whoever has been born of God can not sin (a lifestyle of living in sin) People who are born of God are those who obey his commands, These are descriptive passages, who the people of God are. Not prescriptive passages, which tell us how to be given eternal life.
Eternal life is forever. Never ending. John said we have it, Jesus said we have it. Paul said our hope is based on this promise, which God made before time began.
Conditional life is not found in scripture, unless we are talking about temporal life on this earth.
What water are we suppose to drink to have everlasting life ?
Did the OT have it ?
John 4:14
14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst;
but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
Did the OT have it ?
so is the water words or spirit that you never thirst again ? you must have it to have eternal life
John 4:14
14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst;
but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
Getitright
Active Member
All you've done is reiterate your position without addressing the passages that show the conditional side of obtaining eternal life. Jesus made it clear that eternal life begins after death. He also made it clear that there are some who believe for a while and later fall away. Proof texting the Bible will only lead to error.
What if you become lukewarm ? Revelation 3:16-17
He is talking to his church.
are you gonna be saved in that condition or even go to heaven like that ?
The church is the people
He is talking to his church.
are you gonna be saved in that condition or even go to heaven like that ?
Disagree
The church is the people
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Who inspired the authors of scripture?
Who helps us to understand the words when were written?
Who washes us with the washing of regeneration and new birth?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
No
You asked fo me to put the passages I made in context. I did such
I also shows you how your interpretation of John 11 was flawed.
And now you are saying I have done what I did. So who is being dishonest?
I answered you when you asked me to put them in context.
Now you Show me where in John 3, 4 6 and 1 John I was wrong in my interpretation.
Can you?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
A church is a collection of people
Different churches around the world have different levels of maturity and power.
God was chastening the CHURCH, not individuals within that church.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Jesus called the churches lamp stands
Lamp stand stands for the light which the local churches gave to the communities in which they were located
Some churches had a great light, full of many active mature believers, who were empowered by God to spread his word.
Some where not as mature, Most likely having many mature christians yet many immature christians, and their light did not shine as much, hence they were not as effective
Some, as jesus said, hardly had any light, Probably mature believers there, but they were not strong or numerous enough to really hold the rest of the church.
God threatened to stamp that churches light out.
It means he pulls his power from them. WHich when he does. That church will die, because apart from the power of God. There is no light
Does it mean the mature believers in that church are lost? Of course not. WHoever is born of God are adopted by him, and will be wiht him in eternity.
But remember, Not all believers are mature, there are many babes (ie the corinthian church before pauls letters of rebuke)
Lamp stand stands for the light which the local churches gave to the communities in which they were located
Some churches had a great light, full of many active mature believers, who were empowered by God to spread his word.
Some where not as mature, Most likely having many mature christians yet many immature christians, and their light did not shine as much, hence they were not as effective
Some, as jesus said, hardly had any light, Probably mature believers there, but they were not strong or numerous enough to really hold the rest of the church.
God threatened to stamp that churches light out.
It means he pulls his power from them. WHich when he does. That church will die, because apart from the power of God. There is no light
Does it mean the mature believers in that church are lost? Of course not. WHoever is born of God are adopted by him, and will be wiht him in eternity.
But remember, Not all believers are mature, there are many babes (ie the corinthian church before pauls letters of rebuke)
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
Your personal attack here against me simply shows your inability to prove the OSAS heresy.
Will you honestly admit OSAS is a lie?
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
Repentance is something that must be ongoing for the Christian will not be perfectly sinless throughout his life. Therefore walking in the light (includes repenting) is ongoing whereby the cleansing away of sins by the blood of Christ will be ongoing.
Revelation 2, the church at Ephesus had left their first love and had fallen therefore was commanded to repent.
Not repenting leads to perishing Luke 13:3. Yet repenting was not impossible for those at Ephesus unless they fell into a state of unbelief and remain there.
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Getitright
Active Member
You didn't put them in context. You gave a snippet of what you thought. Putting them in context is explaining what the passage means within the framework of what the writer is saying. So, can you show us how Jesus is teaching that someone who is "saved" cannot be lost.
You also, still, have not addressed the passages that show the conditionality of salvation. You need to address the totality of the passages that deal with the subject. You've not done that. Pretty much anyone can cherry pick the Scriptures to try to support a pet doctrine.
Yes, I can show where your interpretation of those passages is wrong.
13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. (Lk. 8:13 KJV)
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
So you can not go to the passages and show how I took them out of context. You just accuse with no proof
thank you
I will continue to believe as I do unless you can show how I took them out of context
So the CHURCH would be the laymen and official that are lukewarm ?
andor somebody is being lukewarm at a lower level than an overcomer.
So a lower leveler believer can't make it right ?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
You did not understand a word i said
Reread again please this time open your mind and try not to think about how to prove me wrong.
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