OSAS being False Doctrine!

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Big Boy Johnson

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Is not chastening from the Lord reaping what we sow?

Because when we sin we reap CORRUPTION (no longer in right standing with the Lord).... of course the Lord is going to try to influence the sinner to confess their sin and forsake it so they can once again abide in Christ and be back in right standing with the Lord.

We know one cannot abide In Christ while they are doing sinful things as there is no darkness in God. (1 John 1:5)

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 2:1
I write these things unto you, that ye sin not
 

Big Boy Johnson

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This is nice opinion, but where is the Scripture to prove what you assume? Are you now perfect, never choosing to sin? It seems you're saying we are in the Lord, oops we sin, we're not in the Lord, we repent, we're in the Lord again, oops we sin again we're not in the Lord etc etc etc ??? Very confusing doctrine you seem to be espousing here? You charge others with cherry picking verses of Scripture, it seems that description fits you very well.

God is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33), so it's some spirit of darkness that is causing you to be confused.

It's simple... if you walk by the Spirit, you will not gratify the desires of the flesh (Galatians 5:16)

I'm simply reporting what the Lord says in His Word... those suffering from CPS (Cherry Pickers Syndrome) are free to ignore any portion of God's Word that they so desire... it's what cherry pickers do ya know.
 

rwb

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Because when we sin we reap CORRUPTION (no longer in right standing with the Lord).... of course the Lord is going to try to influence the sinner to confess their sin and forsake it so they can once again abide in Christ and be back in right standing with the Lord.

We know one cannot abide In Christ while they are doing sinful things as there is no darkness in God. (1 John 1:5)

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 2:1
I write these things unto you, that ye sin not

NO! When we have been born again we HAVE eternal life in Christ. When we sin we reap CORRECTION from God, because He loves His own and will not allow us to continue in sin. You must reconcile Heb 2:6-7 with your doctrine, or continue to force your contradiction upon the Word of God.

Why does God chasten whom He loves? What the purpose of His chastening love for believers?
 

rwb

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God is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33), so it's some spirit of darkness that is causing you to be confused.

It's simple... if you walk by the Spirit, you will not gratify the desires of the flesh (Galatians 5:16)

I'm simply reporting what the Lord says in His Word... those suffering from CPS (Cherry Pickers Syndrome) are free to ignore any portion of God's Word that they so desire... it's what cherry pickers do ya know.

Confusion comes when we cannot reconcile every verse of Scripture. It comes because we force error and contradiction into God's Holy Word. Perhaps the spirit of darkness you speak of is causing you to be confused??? Do you walk perfectly by the Spirit and never give in to the desires of your flesh? If you don't, according to your doctrine, you've probably lost your salvation, no longer a child of God? If that's the case you were NOT eternally secure to begin with. Why does God chasten who He loves? You like to identify others as cherry picking particular verses but fail to realize you are an offender of what you charge! Because you ignore verses that speak of God chastening, not forsaking whom He loves, rather than admit that you do err in doctrine.
 

Big Boy Johnson

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When we sin we reap CORRECTION from God

Your position on Gal 6:7,8 and that.... it's a lie the devil somehow sneaked in to God's Word when Jesus wasn't looking?

God's Word specifically say if we sow to the flesh which is sin, we reap CORRUPTION not correction.

One must repent from their sin to be right with the Lord again once they sin.

will not allow us to continue in sin

If God is going to "not allow us to continue in sin".... WHY do we see so many Christians falling away??? The calvinists teach God FORCES people to do things, and that's false doctrine as the Lord gave man free will which of course is why the world is in such a mess.

God's Word foretells us of the great falling away where many Christians will turn away from Him and they are LOST unless they repent and come back to abide in Christ once again:

1 Timothy 4:1,2
Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

("depart from the faith" is not referring to sinners in the world who never came to faith in the first place)

1 Timothy 6:3-5 (see Luke 11:23 and 2 Peter 3:2)

If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness (holiness); (Doctrine of Christ, aka Doctrine of the Apostles)

He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof comes envy, strife, railings, evil thoughts… Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying (contradicting, Not agreeing with) the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
And through covetousness (idolatry) shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness (no self control, living after the flesh), and denying (contradicting, opposing Jesus’ teachings) the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (referring to false teachers and false brethren - see Matthew 13:24-30)

(Deny = Strong's G0720… to contradict, disavow, reject, deny, refuse - and Strong's G4483… the idea of pouring forth, to utter, speak of or say, command)

Jude 1:17-21
Remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These are those who
separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
But you, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

("those who separate themselves" is not referring to sinners in the world who were never joined unto the Lord in the first place)
 
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Big Boy Johnson

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Why does God chasten who He loves?

To get them to quit living in sin and come back to Him.

If one could sin and still be right with Him there would be no need for His chastisement at all.

You just proved OSAS is not correct doctrine! coffee:
 

rwb

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If God is going to "not allow us to continue in sin".... WHY do we see so many Christians falling away???

Prove from the Word of God that Christians fall away! I can't help but notice that you haven't answered the question for why God chastens whom He loves? I really don't care what different denominations teach! I care about what sayeth the Scriptures, and can my understanding be reconciled, or does it cause contradiction as your doctrine certainly does?

God's Word foretells us of the great falling away where many Christians will turn away from Him and they are LOST unless they repent and come back to abide in Christ once again:

1 Timothy 4:1,2
Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

("depart from the faith" is not referring to sinners in the world who never came to faith in the first place)

1 Timothy 6:3-5 (see Luke 11:23 and 2 Peter 3:2)

If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness (holiness); (Doctrine of Christ, aka Doctrine of the Apostles)

He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof comes envy, strife, railings, evil thoughts… Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

2 Peter 2:1-3
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying (contradicting, Not agreeing with) the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
And through covetousness (idolatry) shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness (no self control, living after the flesh), and denying (contradicting, opposing Jesus’ teachings) the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (referring to false teachers and false brethren - see Matthew 13:24-30)

(Deny = Strong's G0720… to contradict, disavow, reject, deny, refuse - and Strong's G4483… the idea of pouring forth, to utter, speak of or say, command)

Jude 1:17-21
Remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
These are those who
separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
But you, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

("those who separate themselves" is not referring to sinners in the world who were never joined unto the Lord in the first place)

You say the falling away is of Christians, but where in the passages you quoted does it speak of Christians falling away? The verse speaks of falling away from The faith, then you assume it cannot be of sinners who have never come to faith. To be of THE faith would they not have had to call Jesus Lord and have His Spirit in them? Since this is true, how do you reconcile your opinion that only Christians can fall away from THE faith?

1 Corinthians 12:3 (KJV) Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

When we become Christians we have the Spirit of God in us. How do you reconcile this verse with the opinion that Christians fall away from THE faith?

Why do you omit what is written here? How do you reconcile this passage with your assumption that only Christians can fall away from The faith? The problem for you is that you are cherry picking verses of Scripture again trying to prove what you cannot.

1 John 2:18-20 (KJV) Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
 

Eternally Grateful

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So when God's Word says we reap what we sow... He lied???

Sounds like you have been infected with Cherry Pickers Syndrome! (CPS)

That's where one looks at one or two happy verses and claims the rest of God's Word is optional, or even false.
if we reap what we sow. We will all be in hell..

Because thats what you and I deserve.
 
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rwb

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To get them to quit living in sin and come back to Him.

If one could sin and still be right with Him there would be no need for His chastisement at all.

You just proved OSAS is not correct doctrine! coffee:

So you show you clearly understand that when a Christian sins, he/she will be chastised by God but not forsaken, but still you continue to argue Christians can lose their salvation??? That makes you not deceived, but rather a deceiver! You need to repent and turn to the truth and stop promoting the doctrine of demons!
 

Big Boy Johnson

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Prove from the Word of God that Christians fall away!

See scriptures already posted....
I can't help but notice that you haven't answered the question for why God chastens whom He loves?

The the post above this one... you gotta start keeping up and paying attention!
where in the passages you quoted does it speak of Christians falling away?

Too bad you don't read the scriptures that were posted... they answer your query
How do you reconcile this passage with your assumption that only Christians can fall away from The faith?

Sinners cannot fall away from the faith cause they never were in the faith to begin with... so it's speaking of Christians calling away.

1 John 2:18-20

Proves Christians can fall away and no longer be "of us"
 
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Big Boy Johnson

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if we reap what we sow. We will all be in hell..

Because thats what you and I deserve.

When one turns away from the Lord and sins, they must forsake their sin and confess their sin to the Lord in order to be right with the Lord once again.

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
 
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Big Boy Johnson

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So you show you clearly understand that when a Christian sins, he/she will be chastised by God but not forsaken

If one sins and dies in that condition... they will not go to Heaven because they have been corrupt.

The purpose for the Lord's chastisement is to get people to REPENT so they can be cleaned of all unrighteousness. You should accept the plain reading of scripture!

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
 

rwb

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See scriptures already posted....

None of those you posted say CHRISTIANS fall away from THE faith or lose their salvation! You know this or you would be able to answer the question of why God chastens whom He loves, and you cannot! God does not forsake, He chastens whom He loves! Why can you not reconcile this FACT with your doctrine? Because your doctrine is not biblical, but manmade doctrine of demons.
Sinners cannot fall away from the faith cause they never were in the faith to begin with... so it's speaking of Christians calling away.

Where is your biblical proof that sinners cannot fall away from the faith?
 

Eternally Grateful

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It's imply a seal of approval, a seal of acceptance.
Nope. You need to look back. It is the seal of a king. The seal is not to be broken until it arrives at its destination

it says that destination is the day of redemption (ressurection day)

you cant break that seal my friend, No one can
When one turns way from the Lord and sins they reap corruption and are no longer in right standing with the Lord.

To say this is not true is to mock God according to Gal 6:7,8
John said they were never of us, if they were of us they never would have departed.
You have never committed even one sin after being born again???
Say yes so we can all have a good laugh!
Who said I have never commited a sin, John says if we claim we have no sin we decieve ourselves..

There is no sinless person. Thats why we are all condemned, apart from the grace of God
Life that comes from God IS eternal (they would have lived for ever had they not sinned)... and if one turns away from God the gift of eternal life is not longer applicable to them because God is not mocked, we reap what we sow... if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption... mocking God creates separation from the mocker and from the Lord as it is sinful.
Jude 1:18
How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

Surely you don't want to be with these mockers do ya???
Nope. God never promised them eternal life. He never would have told them they could die if that is the case.


So you believe Christians can go ahead and live in sin and still be in right standing with the Lord?
A christian cannot live in sin, Have you ever read 1 John?

I'm simply reporting what the Lord says in His Word... those suffering from CPS (Cherry Pickers Syndrome) are free to ignore any portion of God's Word that they so desire... it's what cherry pickers do ya know.
You’re no different than the pharisees. They did not believe in eternal life either and crucified christ because he shot them down also.

you want to be one of them feel free.
 
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Eternally Grateful

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God is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33), so it's some spirit of darkness that is causing you to be confused.

It's simple... if you walk by the Spirit, you will not gratify the desires of the flesh (Galatians 5:16)

I'm simply reporting what the Lord says in His Word... those suffering from CPS (Cherry Pickers Syndrome) are free to ignore any portion of God's Word that they so desire... it's what cherry pickers do ya know.
Your right he is not

he does not tell people one day they will never die..

then another day and say they can die

he does not contradict himself like you make him do
 
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Rockerduck

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I've been a born again from above Christian; filled with the Holy Spirit, for over 40 yrs. I worked with the Billy Graham crusade in the 1990's. I've met so many back slider Christians, that you can't count. All of them said " God will not let me go", and all of them got on their knees and praised Jesus for keeping them and all the miracles that brought them back and not back sliding no more. When Jesus talks, you will listen, and I've heard Him speak. It penetrates the marrow of your bones.

I don't care if there is a bible verse or not. I've seen it and lived it. Jesus will not let those he has chosen go.
 

Eternally Grateful

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So you show you clearly understand that when a Christian sins, he/she will be chastised by God but not forsaken, but still you continue to argue Christians can lose their salvation??? That makes you not deceived, but rather a deceiver! You need to repent and turn to the truth and stop promoting the doctrine of demons!
He is stuck in the trap of self righteousness
 
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Eternally Grateful

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When one turns away from the Lord and sins, they must forsake their sin and confess their sin to the Lord in order to be right with the Lord once again.

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Then they are under law not under grace.

learn the difference
 
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