OSAS being False Doctrine!

[ScottA]

Unless one is a baby Christian and is just now learning God's Word... anybody that's has been walking with the Lord for a while knows scripture does not teach "once saved always saved", aka eternal security.

You speak against God.

You may as well claim He is NOT "the same yesterday, today, and forever."

Here's one that most definitely DOES Speak Against the Eternal Security of the believer

Galatians 6:7-8
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
God gave man free will... if man chooses to turn and walk away from the Lord, God will let them do so.

That is not correct regarding this topic at all.

On the contrary, Paul is reiterating the fact that "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." and elaborating the reasons and need for being born [again] of the Spirit, rather than putting so much into the things of the flesh, which is not saved but "destroyed."

 

[Ritajanice]

​

ANSWER

When people come to know Christ as their Savior, they are brought into a relationship with God that guarantees their eternal security. Jude 24 declares, "To Him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy." God’s power is able to keep the believer from falling. It is up to Him, not us, to present us before His glorious presence. Our eternal security is a result of God keeping us, not us maintaining our own salvation.

The Lord Jesus Christ proclaimed, "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand" (John 10:28-29b). Both Jesus and the Father have us firmly grasped in their hand. Who could possibly separate us from the grip of both the Father and the Son?

Ephesians 4:30 tells us that believers are "sealed for the day of redemption." If believers did not have eternal security, the sealing could not truly be unto the day of redemption, but only to the day of sinning, apostasy, or disbelief. John 3:15-16 tells us that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will "have eternal life." If a person were to be promised eternal life, but then have it taken away, it was never "eternal" to begin with. If eternal security is not true, the promises of eternal life in the Bible would be in error.

The most powerful argument for eternal security is Romans 8:38-39, "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Our eternal security is based on God’s love for those whom He has redeemed. Our eternal security is purchased by Christ, promised by the Father, and sealed by the Holy Spirit

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

It means God has put His claim on you, His mark if you will... similar to the seal they put on Jesus' tomb... does not mean it's impossible to open.

It is sad for YOU to think that the SEAL OF GOD can be broken.

Yes, no third party (like the devil) can snatch us out of God's Hand... this promise however does not take away our free will that enables man to turn away from God.

No party at all.
We were chosen, we are the elect, by grace through faith and this is a gift, not by works.

Adam and Eve were given eternal life by the Lord when He created them..

No, not at the time of creation. They did not eat of the Tree of Life. However, I think they learned a lesson and lived by faith.

After the Cross, people must repent and turn away from their sin. Your write up makes it OK to go ahead and sin which is not what God's Word teaches.

No, the point I was trying to make was quite glorious, OSAS.

 

[Ritajanice]

Whoever has been birthed in the Spirit.....can NEVER be U-N Birthed

 

[dev553344]

Unless one is a baby Christian and is just now learning God's Word... anybody that's has been walking with the Lord for a while knows scripture does not teach "once saved always saved", aka eternal security.

Here's one that most definitely DOES Speak Against the Eternal Security of the believer

Galatians 6:7-8
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
God gave man free will... if man chooses to turn and walk away from the Lord, God will let them do so.

Romans 1:28
they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do what ought not to be done

The gifts and callings of God are without repentance which means God cannot violate our free will and save us anyway IF we choose to go back to our sin which is living in darkness. In God there is NO darkness. (1 John 1:5)

This is a major biblical truth the OSAS crowd always explains away or denies is simply this... God is NOT mocked, what we sow is what we reap - if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption. (Gal 6:7,8)

In Gal 6:8, the word corruption is...

G5356
fthora from G5351; decay, i.e. ruin -- corruption, destroy, perish.
G5351
strengthened from phthio (to pine or waste); properly, to shrivel or wither, i.e. to spoil or to ruin, by moral influences, to deprave): -- corrupt (self), defile, destroy.

If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!

Adam and Eve were given eternal life by the Lord when He created them... but when they sinned against God they became corrupt and died spiritually and became separated from God.

So Gal 6:7,8 is quite the quandary, quite the state of uncertainty and perplexity for the adherents of OSAS doctrine.

Oh wow, such strong words against the OSAS crowd. I've retracted strong words before.

Anyone that is mature in the scriptures knows there is support for both OSAS and losing one's salvation. And since both contradict each other in both teachings, both are correct and both are wrong. Another way to perceive the scriptures is necessary. A black and white, one way or the other, is a false teaching.

The truth is that God draws in any he choses and none can snatch them out of his hand. And that means that the devil (the tempter) cannot snatch them nor man can snatch them out of God's hand. But they can still choose to leave God and lose their salvation. And that idea satisfies both doctrines.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Romans 1:28 is not talking about believers.

It's talking about "they that did not like to retain God in their knowledge"

So any Christian that turns away from God has rejected God's knowledge in favor of sin, so this applies to anyone doing that

Unless one wants to claim we do not reap what we sow and win we sin we do not reap corruption because according to Gal 6:7,8 that is mocking God.

Things end badly for those that mock God so one should REPENT and quit believing false doctrine and get right with Jesus.

Jesus is not the minister of sin

Galatians 2:17
But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

Ecclesiastes 7:20 Indeed, there is no one on earth who is righteous, no one who does what is right and never sins

You should get born again so the Blood of the Lamb can wash youy clean and make you righteous!.... Then, turn away from your sin and walk with Him not willingly or knowingly doing sinful things.

NO , nor did he lie when he told them YE must continue IN ME
Its not a sin to remind the church . paul did , Peter did and others did .
For we are made partakers of CHRIST IF we hold ....................................................to the END .
yeah . i suggest we start reminding the church about that

Exactly!

so again I ask, what animals are you sacrificing for atoning your sin?

Apparently you are ignorant of the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

You speak against God.

You may as well claim He is NOT "the same yesterday, today, and forever."

Actually I'm speaking against the false teachers Paul warned about that would come in after he departed, grievous wolves not sparing the flock.

OSAS is mocking God because saying we do not reap what we sow is mocking God according to Gal 6:7,8

That is not correct regarding this topic at all.

That's what all the false teachers claim!

nothing can separate us from the love of God

God loves everyone that went to hell... you must be a universalist and think all are saved since the Lord loves everybody enough to go to the Cross for everyone. (limited atonement doctrine is satanic)

It is sad for YOU to think that tur SEAL OF GOD ca be broken.

It's not that kind of seal as the devil is claiming, it's a mark, not something that holds someone in as that would require overriding man's free will.... it's sad that you think we do not reap what we sow which is mocking God according to Gal 6:7,8

No, not at the time of creation.

If they had never sinned they would have lived forever... the fact of the matter is they sinned and God said if they sin they would be separated from Him which is spiritual death.

Romans 8:13 - For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Now, the false teachers are telling everyone the same thing the devil told Adam and Eve that.... if you sin, surely you won't die. Sad that people have to get help from the devil to misunderstand the simple and plain reading of God's Word.

No, the point I was trying to make was quite glorious, OSAS.

I know, if a Christian wants to live in sin it's all good... they'll go to Heaven anyway right?

Whoever has been birthed in the Spirit.....can NEVER be U-N Birthed

According to Gal 6:7,8 they can become corrupt if they sin.

I've retracted strong words before.

I'm sure you have with lots of scripture twisting and ignoring the whole counsel of God by claiming we only need to look at a few happy verses.... yeah, I know the drill.

since both contradict each other in both teachings, both are correct and both are wrong

If this is true, then you are calming God's Word contains lies???

This would mean Jesus is not all powerful and well able to control what goes in to His canon, is this your claim?

I can help you with that... there are NO errors and NO constrictions in God's Word.

People think there are because satan is muddying the waters thru false teachers such as Augustine, John Calvin, Martin Luther, and all those guys the catholics calls popes!

 

[dev553344]

If this is true, then you are calming God's Word contains lies???

This would mean Jesus is not all powerful and well able to control what goes in to His canon, is this your claim?

I can help you with that... there are NO errors and NO constrictions in God's Word.

People think there are because satan is muddying the waters thru false teachers such as Augustine, John Calvin, Martin Luther, and all those guys the catholics calls popes!

I'll try to ignore the false accusations you're throwing at me for the moment and ask you this: What exactly do you dislike about the following verse then:

John 10:28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Unless one is a baby Christian and is just now learning God's Word... anybody that's has been walking with the Lord for a while knows scripture does not teach "once saved always saved", aka eternal security.

That's why this OP puzzles me, you're a Big Boy now, you should know better.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

John 10:28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

That's not ALL the Lord said in His Word concerning salvation!

That is where the problem comes in and people get in to error... they read a few happy verses and ignore the rest of what the Lord says about this subject.

The only logical conclusion is some folks either don't know what the rest of God's Word says on the subject, OR some folks think there are lies in God's Word.

Which one are you?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

That's why this OP puzzles me, you're a Big Boy now, you should know better.

I don't engage in scripture twisting, and I don't ignore the whole counsel of God, and I don't list to false teachers.

This is why IO know better than to believe OSAS is true cause it's not.

 

[dev553344]

That's not ALL the Lord said in His Word concerning salvation!

That is where the problem comes in and people get in to error... they read a few happy verses and ignore the rest of what the Lord says about this subject.

The only logical conclusion is some folks either don't know what the rest of God's Word says on the subject, OR some folks think there are lies in God's Word.

Which one are you?

The same can be said about you're teachings here, as you appear to reject God's word that I posted for you.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

No, I'm not rejecting any of God's Word... the difference is I'm believing all of what the Lord says on this subject whilst the OSAS peoples only believe a handful of happy verses and throw the rest of God's Word in the trash!

Eternal security is ONLY available to those that abide IN CHRIST and endure till the end of their lives... abiding IN CHRIST.

Some folks apparently have a problem with turning away from their sin and abiding IN CHRIST for some reason... usually because they want to keep the door open to being able to engages in some pet sin they have going... you know, just don't let the pastor find out!

 

[dev553344]

No, I'm not rejecting any of God's Word... the difference is I'm believing all of what the Lord says on this subject whilst the OSAS peoples only believe a handful of happy verses and throw the rest of God's Word in the trash!

Well given the whole bible and not rejecting any doctrine taught by it, what is your assessment? Can the devil or man snatch his people out of his hand?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Can the devil or man snatch his people out of his hand?

Each individual person has the ability to turn and walk away from the Lord and put sin first... this makes one corrupt according to what the Lord says that He is not mocked we reap what we sow, and if we sow to the flesh (sin) we shall of the flesh reap corruption as spoke of in Gal 6:7,8

Because.. the Lord has condemned sin in the flesh according to Romans 8:3.

Very simple. So the thing to do is give up one's sin and quit willingly and knowingly doing sinful stuff. It's always odd when someone argues that sin is no big deral while claiming to be a Christian!

It should be a very rare occasion for a mature Christian to sin and when they do it is not something they know is sin before they do it, and they do it anyway.

 

[dev553344]

Each individual person has the ability to turn and walk away from the Lord and put sin first... this makes one corrupt according to what the Lord says that He is not mocked we reap what we sow, and if we sow to the flesh (sin) we shall of the flesh reap corruption as spoke of in Gal 6:7,8

Because.. the Lord has condemned sin in the flesh according to Romans 8:3.

Very simple. So the thing to do is give up one's sin and quit willingly and knowingly doing sinful stuff. It's always odd when someone argues that sin is no big deral while claiming to be a Christian!

It should be a very rare occasion for a mature Christian to sin and when they do it is not something they know is sin before they do it, and they do it anyway.

Actually we are commanded to be perfect like our Heavenly Father is perfect.

Matthew 5:44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

But what is required to be perfect and sinless?

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

The apostles were living in common and all had according to their needs because they all shared their possession and sold everything to live together. They knew the law and obeyed it to be sin free:

Acts 4:32 Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common. 33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all. 34 Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, 35 and laid them at the apostles’ feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need.

So I think I have this question, while you are upset with OSAS does the teachings you're explaining here follow a sinless way? The sheep and goats talk Jesus gave condemns people that aren't like that.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Perfect in this context is to live upright and blameless before the Lord... which of course is accomplished by the power of the Holy Ghost that we must choose to submit to.

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 2:1
I write these things unto you, that ye sin not

 

[dev553344]

Perfect in this context is to live upright and blameless before the Lord... which of course is accomplished by the power of the Holy Ghost that we must choose to submit to.

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 2:1
I write these things unto you, that ye sin not

Good answer! Cheers!

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Yessir, God's Word is quite clear... not sure why some folks don't just accept what the Lord says.

 

[dev553344]

Yessir, God's Word is quite clear... not sure why some folks don't just accept what the Lord says.

I should also like to add:

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—

Which makes me wonder why we cannot inherit the kingdom of God without being changed.