OSAS : Gnostic Heresy

[Eternally Grateful]

The topic is a historical claim; being that that is the nature of the topic, in order for you to disprove the assertions made about OSAS, you have to bring historical counterclaims about OSAS.

OSAS is a term that means Once a person is Saved. they are Always Saved

Nothing is needed to counter this term except to either prove that it is true. or prove that salvation can be lost. where it came from or who created the term does not matter

Now if your going to counter a doctrine called OSAS, you will have to spell out the doctrine. Then you will have to separate all the different ways in which people interpret that doctrine.

Maybe then you need to bring history into it. but only as a means to show where it may have come from.

I have never seen an OSAS doctrine laid out. Can you show it to me?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That's because you're answering a topic without knowing what you're answering, as Proverbs 18:13 warns against doing.

there needs to be a yawn emoji

He is responding to someone claiming that OSAS came from Gnosticism and my reply to it.

he does not need to know the topic to respond to that

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Actually you need to prove it from God's Word which is easy to do and has been done on this forum already

oh it is?

I have seen many a people try.

Can you share the specific doctrine point by point you are refuting?

If someone who is a new believe and is undecided about OSAS having just heard about it, what scripture references would you provide to them to show them OSAS is not true biblical doctrine?

Just show them that God can not be trusted. That his promises are in word only. That his death on the cross is insufficient., and that you need to work hard and hope you do not fall away

Playing videos is nice and all and there may be some great information in them, but as you may have already discovered most people are not going to sit and watch a video.

They want to see some scripture references that refute OSAS, so please do share that with the readers
lol

Again, it would help if you first post the doctrine

Gnostics can't see that their pet doctrine is not biblical since they don't accept the whole counsel of God.

I have never met a Gnostic. have you? do you even know what they teach and believe?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The gnostics demand everyone accept their false OSAS doctrine and if they don't then the gnostics claim they are not walking in grace or peace

again, have you ever met a gnostic?

No one herer that you are discussing with is a gnostic.

so why are you attacking imaginary people?

can you speak to us?

 

[Josho]

The problem with the OSAS Doctrine is what if a Christian turns their back on God to serve false gods? Are they still saved?

Now God is gracious and will go chasing after that person, however it's ultimately up to them to repent and turn back to God.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The problem with the OSAS Doctrine is what if a Christian turns their back on God to serve false gods? Are they still saved?

why would a christian, who trusts everythingn God said about themselves and about eternity do this?

would this not make them an antichrist? (they now deny christ)

and did not John already tell us about these people?

Now God is gracious and will go chasing after that person, however it's ultimately up to them to repent and turn back to God.

his sheep hear his voice. and they follow him.

if they do not follow him, they were never his sheep

 

[GracePeace]

I really wish people could find it in themselves to stick to the topic. It's so boring to keep reminding people--no matter if they agree with OSAS or not--to stick to the topic, which is a historical issue.

 

[Josho]

why would a christian, who trusts everythingn God said about themselves and about eternity do this?

would this not make them an antichrist? (they now deny christ)

and did not John already tell us about these people?

his sheep hear his voice. and they follow him.

if they do not follow him, they were never his sheep

Hmmm, good point.

I think when someone turns away, they usually do it out of rebellion and anger, believe it or not, this has happened with people who were once strong in the Christian faith.

Now what about Christians who fall into say fornication, adultery, etc. and do not repent of it? Are they OSAS?

 

[Dan Clarkston]

The problem with the OSAS Doctrine is what if a Christian turns their back on God to serve false gods? Are they still saved?

Now what about Christians who fall into say fornication, adultery, etc. and do not repent of it? Are they OSAS?

No, they are not according to what the Lord teaches in His Word:

Top reasons why OSAS is not true

Romans 11:21,22
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

2 Peter 2:20
For if after they have escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

The OSAS peoples never want to talk about 2 Peter 2:20 since they cannot lie their way out of it.

1 John 1:6
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

Romans 2:7-11
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
For there is no respect of persons with God.

James 1:22
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
(NOT in our own strength - see Philippians 4:13)

1 Peter 1:14-17
As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

John 15:2
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Matthew 7:16-21
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

James 5:19,20
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Only those led by the Spirit are the sons of God (Romans 8:14)

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

If OSAS was actually true, the Lord wouldn't be saying what He says in 2 Corinthians 13:5

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hmmm, good point.

I think when someone turns away, they usually do it out of rebellion and anger, believe it or not, this has happened with people who were once strong in the Christian faith.

I know.. That was me once

one thing I know. God never left me, no matter how far I tried to run, I could not hide. He kept comming, Kept chastening. Kept telling me it was the church I went to I was angry at not him.

Now what about Christians who fall into say fornication, adultery, etc. and do not repent of it? Are they OSAS?

What is your besetting sin?

I ask. Because the more I grow in christ. The more sinful I see I am. Why would I judge them when i have my own sin issues?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No, they are not according to what the Lord teaches in His Word:

Top reasons why OSAS is not true

Romans 11:21,22
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

2 Peter 2:20
For if after they have escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

The OSAS peoples never want to talk about 2 Peter 2:20 since they cannot lie their way out of it. View attachment 63293

1 John 1:6
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

Romans 2:7-11
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
For there is no respect of persons with God.

James 1:22
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
(NOT in our own strength - see Philippians 4:13)

1 Peter 1:14-17
As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

John 15:2
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Matthew 7:16-21
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

James 5:19,20
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Only those led by the Spirit are the sons of God (Romans 8:14)

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

If OSAS was actually true, the Lord wouldn't be saying what He says in 2 Corinthians 13:5

Here is a typical lawyer. Who would reject Christ if he came, Because like the jews. Christ would tell him to repent of his boasting and repent of his sin.

when you think you are ok. And your particular sins do not condemn you. You are in deep trouble. Because God is now unable to help you

God helped this in those big sins, I know I have witnessed it.. even in myself

but when you water down the law. And think you are ok.. then you are beyond hope. Unless you repent

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I really wish people could find it in themselves to stick to the topic. It's so boring to keep reminding people--no matter if they agree with OSAS or not--to stick to the topic, which is a historical issue.

Can you give us an outline of this doctrine you say was created years ago?

I have never seen it.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

but when you water down the law.

Which law are you referring to?

The law of Moses which has been done away with (Hebrews 10:9), or the Law of Christ? (Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, James 2:12, James 1:25, Romans 8:2)

 

[Christian Soldier]

Already have.

I don't recall any verses, where God supposedly offered salvation to someone. But if you're referring to -

Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom you will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

The above verse doesn't support the "free choice" theory, nor is it an offer of salvation. I still haven't found any Bible verses to support the theory that a dead man can make himself alive.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Here are a few.

"The will of God is that all believe in Jesus, whom God Sent"

"All who call on the name of Jesus, shall be SAVED"

"Jesus said, all who BELIEVE in Me.....i give unto you Eternal Life, and you shall never Perish, (go to Hell)".


Now if you "Believe in Jesus" God will give you : "The Gift of Salvation".

The CROSS of CHRIST, where Jesus died for YOUR SIN.... = is God offering YOU........"The Gift of Salvation" @Christian Soldier

You haven't identified who the "ALL" are in -
"The will of God is that all believe in Jesus, whom God Sent"

You haven't identified who the "ALL" are in -
"All who call on the name of Jesus, shall be SAVED"

You haven't identified who the "ALL" are in -
"Jesus said, all who BELIEVE in Me.....i give unto you Eternal Life, and you shall never Perish, (go to Hell)".

The big problem with -
Now if you "Believe in Jesus" God will give you : "The Gift of Salvation".
is that God gave me the gift of salvation, while I didn't believe in Him and while I was His enemy and while I was dead in my trespasses and sin.
So that theory is self destructive as well.

You haven't identified who's sin Jesus died on the cross for, are you suggesting that He died for all the reprobate such as Judas Iscariot, Lucifer and all those who will be cast into the lake of fire????. You can't have it both ways, He either died for all those the Father gave Him or He died for everyone who was ever born, as you're suggesting.

The CROSS of CHRIST, where Jesus died for YOUR SIN.... = is God offering YOU........"The Gift of Salvation"

You haven't quoted a single verse which could be used to support your "Universalist" theology. If universalism was Biblical, then it means that God is a liar.

 

[Behold]

You haven't identified who the "ALL" are in -

The "ALL" is found in many NT verses.

Jesus defines them here as ALL "sinners'......."Jesus came into the world to save Sinners"...and that is everyone (ALL are sinners)

John defines the "All" as "the World".....which is everyone.......or "whosoever".......John 3:16

 

[Behold]

You haven't identified who's sin Jesus died on the cross for,

Jesus defined it for you here......."Jesus came into the world to save sinners"... so, "sinners" is ALL of us........or the "world" as John defines sinners in John 3:16

 

[Taken]

I don't recall any verses, where God supposedly offered salvation to someone.

Heb 10:
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

But if you're referring to -

Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom you will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

The above verse doesn't support the "free choice" theory, nor is it an offer of salvation.

Sad you do not comprehend what FREEWILL means.

I still haven't found any Bible verses to support the theory that a dead man can make himself alive.

LOL…So? why tell me about some claim you made up and don’t believe? Weird!

 

[Behold]

You haven't quoted a single verse which could be used to support your "Universalist" theology. If universalism was Biblical, then it means that God is a liar.

"universsalism" is a """doctrine of devils.""" See Hebrews 13:9
I dont teach those.. but you can follow St Steven on this forum , as He teaches that Cross rejecting theology, while the Mods look the other way.

I teach that Jesus died on the Cross for the sin of the world......and everyone who Trusts in Christ, will be saved and remain so.

So, The Cross of Christ is the Universal OFFER of God's Salvation = as found as Jesus's Sacrifice that is offered to "the World"... John 3:16.

 

[Behold]

Gnostics can't see that their pet doctrine is not biblical since they don't accept the whole counsel of God.

Cross denying Heretics can't understand that God's Salvation through Christ is not based on them trying to stay saved.
its ONLY based on the Savior...... and His Salvaiton is eternal.....its not temporary........see, its " The GIFT of ETERNAL Life"....that is Salvation.

Heretics who deny the Cross, teach that Salvation is only as good as you are in the next 5 minutes.......vs, God's Salvation through Christ being always eternal because its based on Jesus's Sacrifice, that is........"Jesus is the ONE TIME ETERNAL Sacrifice for sin".