OSAS : Gnostic Heresy

[BreadOfLife]

there is no such thing as initial salvation. This is a legalistic jewish idea that sadly perverted the church.
I have been saved. from the penalty of sin. thatr5s justification. this is eternal

I am being saved from the flesh. as I am being sanctified by the one who perfected me forever.

I will be saved from the ability to sin. when I receive my resurrected body. Glorified in him.

Jesus said come to him and he will give you rest. Sadly the jew did not want that rest. and nor did alot of the church. they want to insert self back in the picture.

Jesus took what was contrary to me, against me and mailed it to the cross. I am justified freely.. I have been saved. not by works. but by grace through faith.

Ummm, guess again . . .

The Bible is blindingly clear that we can LOSE our security by our OWN doing:. The Scriptures warn us that we need to STAY faithful – to the RND:

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory - even to a blind person . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot blot out a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God “take away” somebody’s “share” of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Not sure what your getting at.

How would they cooperate? By having faith.

Its not about what we do. Its about what God can do.

they chose to trust self. and religion. and rejected the will of their God

Faith is NOT simply “believing”.
James 2:19 reminds us that even the DEMONS do that much. That’s why he goes on to say that faith without works is DEAD (James 2:24).

No – faith is also surrendering to God and His will. Faith is Belief+Surrender+Works all wrapped together
You cannot DO Hisa will if you simply “believe” in Him. That’s why Paul writes:
Gal. 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

You can't have faith if you don't have love - and love is something that WE DO.
This is why Paul writes:
1 Cor. 13:1-4

If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

Our cooperation with God’s grace is done by expressing our belief, surrender and wors through love.
You know – DOING His will . . .
Matt. 7:21
"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ONLY the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven."

 

[GracePeace]

Faith is NOT simply “believing”.
James 2:19 reminds us that even the DEMONS do that much. That’s why he goes on to say that faith without works is DEAD (James 2:24).

No – faith is also surrendering to God and His will. Faith is Belief+Surrender+Works all wrapped together
You cannot DO Hisa will if you simply “believe” in Him. That’s why Paul writes:
Gal. 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

You can't have faith if you don't have love - and love is something that WE DO.
This is why Paul writes:
1 Cor. 13:1-4

If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

Our cooperation with God’s grace is done by expressing our belief, surrender and wors through love.
You know – DOING His will . . .
Matt. 7:21
"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ONLY the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven."

The people here have no taste for truth--it is detestable to them.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

If you believe poverty is a blessing then why haven't you given all your stuff away and become homeless so you can be closer to the Lord?

I guess that fella decided he didn't want to be poor so he could be closer to the Lord after all

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Ummm, guess again . . .

Yes. You can lose security if it is based on self. and Not God.

For those who trust God.

our security is in him.. so we will never lose hope.. He promised he would never leave nor forsake us.

But keep working. I mean your name itself. the bread of life. when are you going to partake of it so you can live forever? Never die. Have eternal life. Pass from death to life. And Have Gods promise he will raise you on the last day?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Faith is NOT simply “believing”.
James 2:19 reminds us that even the DEMONS do that much. That’s why he goes on to say that faith without works is DEAD (James 2:24).

No – faith is also surrendering to God and His will. Faith is Belief+Surrender+Works all wrapped together
You cannot DO Hisa will if you simply “believe” in Him. That’s why Paul writes:
Gal. 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

You can't have faith if you don't have love - and love is something that WE DO.
This is why Paul writes:
1 Cor. 13:1-4

If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

Our cooperation with God’s grace is done by expressing our belief, surrender and wors through love.
You know – DOING His will . . .
Matt. 7:21
"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ONLY the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven."

Faith in the greek is having confidence in. Having an assurance in someone or something. It is living faith based on evidence not blind faith.

Your faith is in you works. your deeds. because it is what you practice. not out of appreciation for What God did for you. Not out of loving others because God first loved you and gave you the power to love. Not because you were made a new creature.

but to try to save yourself..


My faith is in God. He said as moses lifted the serpent. so to much he be raised that whoever has faith will never perish and have eternal life.

No works involved.

Here let me give these to you. non of your pears will respond. will you?

the gospel according to Jesus and the apostle paul

show me the works..

John 1: 12. But AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED HIM, to THEM he gave the right to become children, even TO THEM WHO BELIEVE (no works)

John 3, FOR God so loved the world he gave his only son that WHOEVER BELIEVES (trusts) in him will NEVER PERISH, and LIVE FOREVER (eternal life) for the son was not sent to judge, but that the world might be saved, he who BELIEVES is NOT CONDEMNED, he who does not believe is condemned already (no works)

John 4: 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will NEVER THIRST. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into EVERLASTING LIFE” (no works)

John 5: 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he whoever HEARS MY WORD and BELIEVES IN HIM WHO SENT ME who sent Me HAS ETERNAL LIFE and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT but HAS PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE (No works)

John 6: 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. HE WHO COMES TO ME shall NEVER HUNGER and he who BELIEVES IN ME shall NEVER THIRST (NO WORKS)

John 6: 37: and THE ONE WHO COMES TO ME I WILL BY NO MEANS CAST OUT 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, thatof all He has given Me I SHAL LOSE NOTHING, but SHOULD RAISE IT UP ON THE LAST DAY. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES AND BELIEVES IN HIM MAY HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE AND I WILL (NOT MIGHT) RAISE HIM ON THE LAST DAY (NO WORKS)

John 6: 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME HAS EVERLASTING LIFE. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that THAT ONE MAY EAT OF IT AND NOT DIE 51 am the living bread which came down from heaven. IF ANYONE EATS THIS BREAD HE WILL LIVE FOREVER (NO WORKS)

John 6: 63 It is the SPIRIT WHO GIVES LIFE ; the flesh profits nothing. THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK to you ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE (SIGNIFYING THE BREAD FROM HEAVEN, THE FLESH AND BOOD ARE THE WORDS JESUS SPOKE. NOT THE PHYSICAL FOOD OR WORKS,)

EPH 1: 13 In Him YOU ALSO TRUSTED , after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also ,HAVING BELIEVED YOU WERE SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE 14 who IS THE GAURANTEE OF OUR INHERITANCE until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

THE INHERITANCE HE SAID WE ALREADY HAD IN THE 1ST 12 VERSES. (AGAIN, NO WORKS)

eph 2: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses,MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and RAISED US UP TOGETHER , and MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED (A COMPLETED ACTION) THROUGH FAITH , (AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED) and that NOT OF YOURSELVES ; it IS THE GIFT OF GOD, 9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST (NO WORKS)

rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS (AGAIN NO WORKS. PERIOD)

rom 4: 16 Therefore IT IF OF FAITH THAT IT MAY BE ACCORDING TO GRACE , so that THE PROMISE MAY BE SURE TO ALL THE SEED not only to those who are of the law, but also TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM , who is the father of us all (AGAIN, NO WORKS, IT IS OF GRACE THROUGH FAITH)

Rom 4: 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but ALSO FOR US, IT SHALL BE IMPUTED TO US WHO BELIEVE IN HIM WHO RAISED UP JESUS OUR LORD FROM THE DEAD , 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was RAISED BECAUSE OF OUR JUSTIFICATION (AGAIN NO WORKS)

Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK (AS i HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIME, GRACE + WORKS = WORKS.. GRACE AND WORKS CAN NOT MIX IN THE AREA OF SALVATION. ITS LIKE MIXING OIL AND WATER)

2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN (AGAIN, NO WORKS. BUT GRACE)

Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED USthrough the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
(AGAIN, NO QUESTION HERE. PAUL LEAVES NO QUESTION. NO GOOD DEED CAN SAVE US,. WE ARE SAVED BY GODS MERCY, AND GIVEN THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. WHICH IS PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN

Titus 1: 2 in HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE which GOD WHO CAN NOT LIE PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN

this is what our faith is in, the grace and mercy of God. not our deeds.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The people here have no taste for truth--it is detestable to them.

read this back to yourself. and take heed

and while your doing it. take your pride with you..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I guess that fella decided he didn't want to be poor so he could be closer to the Lord after all

was abraham not close to God because he had great wealth?

How about king David?

 

[David Lamb]

was abraham not close to God because he had great wealth?

How about king David?

Do you mean, "Was Abraham's wealth the reason he was not close to God?" I would say that according to the bible, he was close to God. We read:

“And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.” (Jas 2:23 NKJV)

Or do you mean the opposite, that Abraham's wealth was the reason he was close to God? If so, then again, that verse from James doesn't say that his riches caused him to be called the friend of God.

 

[mailmandan]

Faith is NOT simply “believing”.

Faith includes believing, assurance, reliance upon Christ for salvation.

Strong's Greek: 4102. πίστις (pistis) -- Faith, belief, trust, confidence, fidelity

James 2:19 reminds us that even the DEMONS do that much.

The demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe in/have faith in/assurance in/reliance upon Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance are in Satan as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

That’s why he goes on to say that faith without works is DEAD (James 2:24).

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So, when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith.

So, James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

No – faith is also surrendering to God and His will. Faith is Belief+Surrender+Works all wrapped together

Your eisegesis culminates in salvation by faith AND WORKS. False gospel alert.

You cannot DO His will if you simply “believe” in Him.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. The object of what we believe in for salvation (Jesus Christ) apparently is not enough for you, so you turn to supplements.

There is a difference between doing His will in order to become saved (John 6:40) and doing His will after we have been saved.

1 Thessalonians 5:14 - Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. 16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

You seem to make no distinction between faith and works. You take faith and works and wrap them both up together in a package and simply stamp "faith" on the package. You just can't let go of your works and received Christ through faith.

That’s why Paul writes:
Gal. 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

Faith works through love because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us. (Romans 5:5) Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. (1 John 4:7) We love Him because He first loved us. (1 John 4:19)

You can't have faith if you don't have love - and love is something that WE DO.
This is why Paul writes:
1 Cor. 13:1-4

If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

You seem to have more faith in what you DO than what Jesus Christ has already DONE. In regard to 1 Corinthians 13:13, Paul is expressing the importance of love and is not teaching salvation by love/acts of charity/works. Faith works through love (Galatians 5:6), but we are saved through faith, not faith "plus love/acts of charity/works."

Love is the greatest quality between faith, hope and love (1 Corinthians 13:13) because God is love and it outlasts faith and hope. Long after the "evidence of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1) are now seen and we are no longer looking for the "blessed hope" - (expectation of what is sure) and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ (Titus 2:13) because we are now in His presence, love will still be the principle that governs all that God and his saints are and do throughout eternity.

Paul is not teaching that even if our faith is genuine that our faith cannot save us without producing "enough" love/acts of charity which culminates in salvation by works. Paul is stressing the importance of love, not teaching that faith in Christ is insufficient to save us without the personal merits of our best efforts to love.

All who are truly born again have love. Why? Because we (believers) have received the love of God in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us (Romans 5:5) when we believed the gospel (Ephesians 1:13). We love Him because He first loved us (1 John 4:19). 1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

Our cooperation with God’s grace is done by expressing our belief, surrender and wors through love.
You know – DOING His will . . .
Matt. 7:21
"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ONLY the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven."

Again, your eisegesis culminates in salvation by faith AND WORKS in contradiction to scripture. (Romans 4:5-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9) We are justified (accounted as righteous) by faith (Romans 5:1) and we have access by faith into grace. (Romans 5:2) Doing God's will unto salvation is believing in the Son. (John 6:40) Expressing our belief through works of love is God's will for us after we have been saved. Don't put the cart before the horse.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Do you mean, "Was Abraham's wealth the reason he was not close to God?" I would say that according to the bible, he was close to God. We read:

“And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.” (Jas 2:23 NKJV)

Or do you mean the opposite, that Abraham's wealth was the reason he was close to God? If so, then again, that verse from James doesn't say that his riches caused him to be called the friend of God.

so then we do not have to give up our wealth to be close to God.. as was suggested

 

[Sister-n-Christ]

Faith includes believing, assurance, reliance upon Christ for salvation.

Strong's Greek: 4102. πίστις (pistis) -- Faith, belief, trust, confidence, fidelity

The demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe in/have faith in/assurance in/reliance upon Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance are in Satan as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So, when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith.

So, James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

Your eisegesis culminates in salvation by faith AND WORKS. False gospel alert.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. The object of what we believe in for salvation (Jesus Christ) apparently is not enough for you, so you turn to supplements.

There is a difference between doing His will in order to become saved (John 6:40) and doing His will after we have been saved.

1 Thessalonians 5:14 - Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. 16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

You seem to make no distinction between faith and works. You take faith and works and wrap them both up together in a package and simply stamp "faith" on the package. You just can't let go of your works and received Christ through faith.

Faith works through love because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us. (Romans 5:5) Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. (1 John 4:7) We love Him because He first loved us. (1 John 4:19)

You seem to have more faith in what you DO than what Jesus Christ has already DONE. In regard to 1 Corinthians 13:13, Paul is expressing the importance of love and is not teaching salvation by love/acts of charity/works. Faith works through love (Galatians 5:6), but we are saved through faith, not faith "plus love/acts of charity/works."

Love is the greatest quality between faith, hope and love (1 Corinthians 13:13) because God is love and it outlasts faith and hope. Long after the "evidence of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1) are now seen and we are no longer looking for the "blessed hope" - (expectation of what is sure) and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ (Titus 2:13) because we are now in His presence, love will still be the principle that governs all that God and his saints are and do throughout eternity.

Paul is not teaching that even if our faith is genuine that our faith cannot save us without producing "enough" love/acts of charity which culminates in salvation by works. Paul is stressing the importance of love, not teaching that faith in Christ is insufficient to save us without the personal merits of our best efforts to love.

All who are truly born again have love. Why? Because we (believers) have received the love of God in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us (Romans 5:5) when we believed the gospel (Ephesians 1:13). We love Him because He first loved us (1 John 4:19). 1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

Again, your eisegesis culminates in salvation by faith AND WORKS in contradiction to scripture. (Romans 4:5-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9) We are justified (accounted as righteous) by faith (Romans 5:1) and we have access by faith into grace. (Romans 5:2) Doing God's will unto salvation is believing in the Son. (John 6:40) Expressing our belief through works of love is God's will for us after we have been saved. Don't put the cart before the horse.

Their Eisegesis is a product of the RCC. As MoG,they argue in favor of the cult that is born of Eisegesis.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Do you mean, "Was Abraham's wealth the reason he was not close to God?" I would say that according to the bible, he was close to God. We read:

“And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.” (Jas 2:23 NKJV)

Or do you mean the opposite, that Abraham's wealth was the reason he was close to God? If so, then again, that verse from James doesn't say that his riches caused him to be called the friend of God.

Those that know there bible know that it's very possibly to be wealthy and be led by the Holy Spirit to use it righteously.

People get so upset over the so called "prosperity gospel" that they get in the ditch on the other side thinking God wants everyone to be poor, broke living homeless under a bridge somewhere

On the other hand most Christians are too spiritually immature to handle any large amount of money as it would cause them to fall way since they aren't very good Christians to began with. So sometimes the Lord has to limit what people get in terms of money

 

[GracePeace]

You know what would be really cool? If people stuck to the topic.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Faith includes believing, assurance, reliance upon Christ for salvation.

And cooperating with God’s will.

Strong's Greek: 4102. πίστις (pistis) -- Faith, belief, trust, confidence, fidelity

The demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe in/have faith in/assurance in/reliance upon Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance are in Satan as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

It’s more than just menta assent. James 2:19 tells us that the demons believe - and tremble. They believe deeply in who Jesus is. They just refuse to surrender.

That’s why he goes on to say that faith without works is DEAD (James 2:24).

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So, when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith.

So, James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

Your eisegesis culminates in salvation by faith AND WORKS. False gospel alert.

It’s not faith and works. Works are an essential element of what faith is. This is why belief alone can’t save you – and neither can works alone. The whole point of James 2 is to explain WHAT true faith is.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. The object of what we believe in for salvation (Jesus Christ) apparently is not enough for you, so you turn to supplements.

Not true.

Faith in Jesus saves us - and James clarifies the context. (James 2:14-24).

There is a difference between doing His will in order to become saved (John 6:40) and doing His will after we have been saved.

Salvation is a process - not a one-time slam dunk event.

The Scriptures assure us that we as Christians are ALREADY SAVED (Rom. 5:1, 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8)
This is Initial Salvation – God give us the initial grace to believe.

However, because Salvation is a LIFELONG process – it ALSO says that I am BEING SAVED (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, 7:1, Phil. 2:12, Heb 12:14).
This is Ongoing Sanctification – God is sanctifying us throughout our life as we cooperate with his grace.

Because of this, I have the hope that I WILL BE SAVED (Matt. 24:13, Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15).
This is Final Sanctification/Salvation – We die and go to heaven having endured to the end.

You seem to make no distinction between faith and works. You take faith and works and wrap them both up together in a package and simply stamp "faith" on the package. You just can't let go of your works and received Christ through faith.

Tell that to Jesus, who defines “Faith” as something that includes works (Matt. 25:31-46) – and NOT simply “producing” works.

Faith works through love because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us. (Romans 5:5) Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. (1 John 4:7) We love Him because He first loved us. (1 John 4:19)

Absolutely. Nobody is giving the credit to US. We are told in Ephesians:

Eph. 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.

And then – verse 10 reminds us:
For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
ur works aren’t even FROM us – they’re from GOD. We can spend out life doing works of charity. But if they are only glorifying US – they’re NOT works of faith.

For example – a noon-believer can love only his family and friends. But, once he receives the grace of faith, he now must love his enemies as well (Mat. 5:44).

Paul is not teaching that even if our faith is genuine that our faith cannot save us without producing "enough" love/acts of charity which culminates in salvation by works. Paul is stressing the importance of love, not teaching that faith in Christ is insufficient to save us without the personal merits of our best efforts to love.

All who are truly born again have love. Why? Because we (believers) have received the love of God in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us (Romans 5:5) when we believed the gospel (Ephesians 1:13). We love Him because He first loved us (1 John 4:19). 1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

It’s not about “enough” works. God may have provided me less works doe ME than He did for YOU. We are different people living in different situations with different needs. We ALL have a pre-determined number of works that God prepared for each of us (Eph. 2:10).

Again, your eisegesis culminates in salvation by faith AND WORKS in contradiction to scripture. (Romans 4:5-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9) We are justified (accounted as righteous) by faith (Romans 5:1) and we have access by faith into grace. (Romans 5:2) Doing God's will unto salvation is believing in the Son. (John 6:40) Expressing our belief through works of love is God's will for us after we have been saved. Don't put the cart before the horse.

It’s NOT about my contradicting the Scriptures.

It’s about YOU ignoring the context of Scripture (Matt. 7:21, Matt. 25: 31:46, Gal. 5:6).

 

[GracePeace]

Faith includes believing, assurance, reliance upon Christ for salvation.

Strong's Greek: 4102. πίστις (pistis) -- Faith, belief, trust, confidence, fidelity

The demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe in/have faith in/assurance in/reliance upon Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance are in Satan as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So, when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith.

So, James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

Your eisegesis culminates in salvation by faith AND WORKS. False gospel alert.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. The object of what we believe in for salvation (Jesus Christ) apparently is not enough for you, so you turn to supplements.

There is a difference between doing His will in order to become saved (John 6:40) and doing His will after we have been saved.

1 Thessalonians 5:14 - Now we exhort you, brethren, warn those who are unruly, comfort the fainthearted, uphold the weak, be patient with all. 15 See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all. 16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

You seem to make no distinction between faith and works. You take faith and works and wrap them both up together in a package and simply stamp "faith" on the package. You just can't let go of your works and received Christ through faith.

Faith works through love because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us. (Romans 5:5) Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. (1 John 4:7) We love Him because He first loved us. (1 John 4:19)

You seem to have more faith in what you DO than what Jesus Christ has already DONE. In regard to 1 Corinthians 13:13, Paul is expressing the importance of love and is not teaching salvation by love/acts of charity/works. Faith works through love (Galatians 5:6), but we are saved through faith, not faith "plus love/acts of charity/works."

Love is the greatest quality between faith, hope and love (1 Corinthians 13:13) because God is love and it outlasts faith and hope. Long after the "evidence of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1) are now seen and we are no longer looking for the "blessed hope" - (expectation of what is sure) and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ (Titus 2:13) because we are now in His presence, love will still be the principle that governs all that God and his saints are and do throughout eternity.

Paul is not teaching that even if our faith is genuine that our faith cannot save us without producing "enough" love/acts of charity which culminates in salvation by works. Paul is stressing the importance of love, not teaching that faith in Christ is insufficient to save us without the personal merits of our best efforts to love.

All who are truly born again have love. Why? Because we (believers) have received the love of God in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us (Romans 5:5) when we believed the gospel (Ephesians 1:13). We love Him because He first loved us (1 John 4:19). 1 John 4:7 - Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

Again, your eisegesis culminates in salvation by faith AND WORKS in contradiction to scripture. (Romans 4:5-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9) We are justified (accounted as righteous) by faith (Romans 5:1) and we have access by faith into grace. (Romans 5:2) Doing God's will unto salvation is believing in the Son. (John 6:40) Expressing our belief through works of love is God's will for us after we have been saved. Don't put the cart before the horse.

Doing good results in a harvest of eternal life "in due time" if we persist therein.

John 5:28“Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
John 12:50“I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”

Romans 2:6Who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: 7to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
Romans 14:23But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.

Galatians 6:6The one who is taught the word is to share all good things with the one who teaches him. 7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. 8For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. 10So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.

You, and those like you, want to emphasize what Christ has done, and that is good, but it really is dishonest of you all to not reconcile your views with the rest of these Scriptures.

 

[GracePeace]

Oh, no, I was drawn off topic into the black hole debate LOL