OSAS Question

[mailmandan]

Rev 3:5

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

1 John 5:4 - For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Eternal IN-securists read Revelation 3:5 as if God’s pen is poised and He is ready to strike out the name of any Christian who does not overcome in life according to their standards. They read into it like this: "If you don't overcome every struggle in life and maintain your salvation by works, then you’re going to lose your salvation! But that is not what the verse says. Jesus is giving a promise here, not a warning.

 

[mailmandan]

1Co 9:27

But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

In context, Paul compared preaching the gospel to others (His ministry) to a race. Here take a look. Verse 27 - No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize. Just as we read in verse 18 - What then is my reward? Just this: that in preaching the gospel I may offer it free of charge, and so not make full use of my rights as a preacher of the gospel.

A prize is not a gift. A prize is something that you work for and earn where a gift is something that you freely accept without merit.

Prize (brabeion) - the prize awarded to a victor, the reward (recognition) that follows triumph.
Strong's Concordance
brabeion: a prize
Original Word: βραβεῖον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: brabeion
Phonetic Spelling: (brab-i'-on)
Definition: a prize
Usage: a prize.

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Strong's Concordance
charisma: a gift of grace, a free gift
Original Word: χάρισμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: charisma
Phonetic Spelling: (khar'-is-mah)
Definition: a gift of grace, a free gift
Usage: a gift of grace, an undeserved favor.

Paul is not suggesting here that he might lose his salvation, but that he might not stand the test in regards to his service and be (disqualified for the prize - NIV) which fits the meaning of the word disqualified in the athletic context. The prize is not the gift of eternal life. (Romans 6:23) The Greek word for castaway (adokimos) in context here simply means disapproved. Paul is not in fear of losing his salvation, but is concerned in regards to his work of ministry in preaching the gospel to others.

Notice that verse 24 says, "Do you not know that those who run in a race ALL run, but ONLY ONE receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it." In an Olympic race, all runners run but only one receives the gold medal. So what happens to the runners that receive the silver medal or bronze medal or finish the race with no medal? Are they disqualified from the Olympics or from the prize, receiving the gold medal?

 

[mailmandan]

Phl 3:11

If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Phl 3:12

Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Phl 3:13

Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

Phl 3:14

I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Nothing here about losing salvation either. Again the prize is not the gift of eternal life.

 

[mailmandan]

Gal 5:4

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

The present tense of the word "justified" implies that these Galatians were contemplating justification by the law. They were getting side tracked by legalistic teachers. "You who are trying to be justified by the law have fallen away from grace," but had they fully come to that place yet? Those who perpetually seek to be justified by the law demonstrate that faith was never firmly rooted and established from the start. In regards to believers who get side tracked, Galatians 3:3 reads: Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

The middle voice implies "making yourselves perfect" by means of self effort. The present tense indicates that the action is in progress and that there is still time to correct the error.

If these Galatians lost their salvation and it was a done deal, then why didn't Paul simply say you "lost your salvation" and I'm done with you? Instead, in verse 10, he said - I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is. Why would Paul have confidence in these Galatians if they lost their salvation and it's all over for them? In verse 12, Paul uses hyperbole, As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Do you teach that we need not do good to get to heaven?

I teach what teh bible teaches, that in order to be saved, one must trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus for their sin. When one does that, they are given a new life and become a new creature that is now capable of doing works that God would call good.

Philippians 2:12-13
King James Version

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Ephesians 2:10
King James Version

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


Good works do not save.
I do not good works to be or stay saved, but because I am saved.
In order to work something out- God has to first work it in and then enable us to work it out!

Titus 2:11-12
King James Version

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;


After we are saved and given ETERNAL LIFE (not probationary life) the Holy Spirit indwells us and begins to teach us how to deny ungodliness and then deny ungodliness.

Once again let me repeat for this is critical:

Good works do nto maintain or grant me salvation. They are an outward manifestation that I am saved by the blood of Jesus alone.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Nope, my argunent is with you who insist that what John said about the Antichrist he was referring to, goes fore everyone.

But as long as it's clear to onlookers that you are twisting scripture, all is well here. I dont expect you to stop peddling your false gospel or twisted scripture, my only purpose is to let others know you are wrong.

John said many antichrists

he also told us who they were. Those who deny Christ

1 John 2:22 (NKJV): 22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.

an unbeliever denies Jesus is the Christ

they departed
From us. Not he


you have not shown I have twisted anything. All you have shown is you are unable to look at a whole passage

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You accused me of "hate". But you won't say who I hate? I don't hate ANYONE. And you accused me of being a liar more than once?

Dude your hatred against is OSAS is well documented. End of discussion.

 

[TheslightestID]

I

Good works do nto maintain or grant me salvation. They are an outward manifestation that I am saved by the blood of Jesus alone.

Then you disagree with Christ in the following verse who puts it differently than you, when saying, simply, if we do good, we will go to heaven, while you claim doing good is a mansfest of being saved? Big difference?

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned."

Also, will we go to heaven if after being saved, we fall back, due go temptation, and live an evil life?

 

[Hemlock]

Accusations of HATRED and an abundance of "OSAS-Splainaway" are rife on this board. Good thing there is an IGNORE button.

 

[TheslightestID]

John said many antichrists

So?

Many is far from all.

he also told us who they were. Those who deny Christ

1 John 2:22 (NKJV): 22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.

an unbeliever denies Jesus is the Christ

they departed
From us. Not he


you have not shown I have twisted anything. All you have shown is you are unable to look at a whole passage

Of course you twisted God's word....again, there is no evidence in that scripture stating ALL who leave the church were never saved to begin with...none whatsoever.

1 Timothy 4:1
“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;”

Please stop twisting the scripture to say those who depart from the faith were never saved to begin with, as the scripture there shows, beyond doubt, that is a lie.

 

[Hemlock]

Heb 6:4

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Heb 6:5

And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Heb 6:6

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

The description of those who had previously experienced these things precludes a "never saved to begin with" situation.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So?

Many is far from all.

many antichrists will come

that’s mans any antichrist who comes is included

come on man, your making yourself look bad

Of course you twisted God's word....again, there is no evidence in that scripture stating ALL who leave the church were never saved to begin with...none whatsoever.

1 Timothy 4:1
“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;”

Please stop twisting the scripture to say those who depart from the faith were never saved to begin with, as the scripture there shows, beyond doubt, that is a lie.

yet John said whoever leaves the church as a non believer was never of the church

1 Tim 4 1 just says in the last days the churches will dwindle we see it today. Many who were long time church goes have no left, and reject Christ, according to John they were never of us

Sorry my fried, johns word that a nonbeliever who was once part of the church and has now left has never been of us proves they were never of us

and his saying whoever sins has never seen or known God shows that whoever returns to sin (their vomit) have ever known or seen God,

nice try, but you have not proven anything. Other than you think you can earn salvation, well good luck,

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Heb 6:4

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

Heb 6:5

And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

Heb 6:6

If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

The description of those who had previously experienced these things precludes a "never saved to begin with" situation.

Nope

1. it says if they fall away, it does not say it is possible
2. It says if it were possible, they could never be renewed to repentance

according to law. If you sinned, you repented and made sacrifice and you were renewed to repentance,

this is the argument

also read the next few verses.

7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

near to being cursed, does not mean cursed, the cursed are cast to the lake of fire. But people can be saved and see all their works burned, yet he himself will still be saved even as through fire (1 cor)

 

[TheslightestID]

1 Tim 4 1 just says in the last days the churches will dwindle we see it today.

No, that js not what it says. You saw the quote and you are now twising it into something else. Read the bibles version, the one I quoted, that will be the truth, while your version is not.

1. it says if they fall away, it does not say it is possible

You have completely given yourself over to Satan, and are doing his bidding. So much so that you are unable to see that even those on your side if this can see right through you, and that you are only hurting your case.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No, that js not what it says. Yiu saw the quote and you are now twising it into something else. Read the bibles version, the one I quoted, that will be the truth, while your version is not.



You have completely given yourself over to Satan, and are doing his bidding. So much so that you are unable to see that even those on your side if this can see right through you, snd that you are only hurting your case.

Actually you have given yourself over to Satan

you think you can earn salvation

well you can’t. Hence you take the grace of God and reject it, and just like the jews, you will find out when you try to tell God how worthy you are. How you have sinned and fallen short.

the Bible can not co trading itself, you can’t take a few passages and say this is it. You have to take it as a whole

funny how you refuse to acknowledge any of the passages I post, that is more than enough to know I do not have anything to worry about, because you have nothing to offer me

 

[Eternally Grateful]

1 John 5:4 - For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Eternal IN-securists read Revelation 3:5 as if God’s pen is poised and He is ready to strike out the name of any Christian who does not overcome in life according to their standards. They read into it like this: "If you don't overcome every struggle in life and maintain your salvation by works, then you’re going to lose your salvation! But that is not what the verse says. Jesus is giving a promise here, not a warning.

Whatever is born overcomes

What God has begun he will complete

has perfected forever

the seal of the spirit,

all these passages. These people reject them all. They say we have listened to Satan

I am saddened thinking what will happen

 

[TheslightestID]

Actually you have given yourself over to Satan

you think you can earn salvation

well you can’t. Hence you take the grace of God and reject it, and just like the jews, you will find out when you try to tell God how worthy you are. How you have sinned and fallen short.

the Bible can not co trading itself, you can’t take a few passages and say this is it. You have to take it as a whole

funny how you refuse to acknowledge any of the passages I post, that is more than enough to know I do not have anything to worry about, because you have nothing to offer me

All talk. You have reached the point where you are no longer able to understand clear scripture, leaving you nothing to do but babble on.

 

[kcnalp]

Actually you have given yourself over to Satan

you think you can earn salvation

well you can’t. Hence you take the grace of God and reject it, and just like the jews, you will find out when you try to tell God how worthy you are. How you have sinned and fallen short.

the Bible can not co trading itself, you can’t take a few passages and say this is it. You have to take it as a whole

funny how you refuse to acknowledge any of the passages I post, that is more than enough to know I do not have anything to worry about, because you have nothing to offer me

You're judging someone and saying "Actually you have given yourself over to Satan"?

If you don't have Christian works you're not a Christian! James said it well! And he mentioned it three times, for OSASers.

James 2:26 (NKJV)
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Then you disagree with Christ in the following verse who puts it differently than you, when saying, simply, if we do good, we will go to heaven, while you claim doing good is a mansfest of being saved? Big difference?

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned."

Also, will we go to heaven if after being saved, we fall back, due go temptation, and live an evil life?

And what is the good that Jesus said to do? but believe on HIm!

John 6:28-30
King James Version

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.


The good works we do are a result of our being saved and being a child of God and have nothing to do with getting saved or maintaining our salvation.

As to your second question. Neither you nor I can know the heart of the individual that hypothetically does that. Only God knows whether they are saved or not! they certainly would not be acting like they are saved, but actions in a point or even a season of time mean nothing.

Remember what is written in Zechariah:

Zechariah 13:9
And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

When metal is tried it is heated to melting, so the dross rises to the surface and be removed. Many times when God tires our faith and the dross rises, people will stumble often. But God knows the heart and knows what He is doing!

For all we know the person who is living in sin may be broken hearted about it and confessing everytime but just is overcome! Does god require us to forgive someone 70X7 a day but He will not if one asks for forgiveness?

If a person is truly saved and falls back for a time into sin- they are still children of God, just disobedient children. Their fellowship is broken but their relationship as a child of god is not!

But they may never have gotten saved as SCripture points out in Matt. and 1 John. But you and I can never know that. If anything we should be broken hearted and pray for this hypothetical believer that God would deliver them from this weakness.

But let me ask you a question. Did Jesus blood pay for all your sin, or just most of them?

 

[kcnalp]

And so, OSASers are evading the OP like plague. No surprise!