Our desire for Holiness comes in the presence of almighty God.
- Thread starter David H.
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I spent some time considering whether I should write that or not, but I'm telling you my perceptions, and what they mean to me. It's anything but snide. Take it as you will. My hope is that it would cause you to reflect.
Much love!
This is a total cop out.
I can make the exact same statement about anyone I want, should I want to, though I don't.
"you only believe that because it's how you were taught". Empty and meaningless.
Much love!
I Understand how the Greek works, You assume I do not. If the intent was to use "even" then the translators would have done so, but they did not, How come?
Every protestant sect, with the exception of the church of England teaches that all believers are saints. that is a fact.
Again, I will not comment on this because it is a rude insult from you, and shows your arrogance.
Most people do not think for themselves, and this again is a fact, they just repeat what they were taught.
A Baseball team is made up of diverse players doing different things on the field, yet they are united in purpose. This is not a Caste system but just how the Body is constructed. Read 1 Corinthians 12 again.
The way you base your doctrine on this interpretation of this verse tells me you don't take that into account.
Much love!
OK, so to be clear, you recognize the dual use of "Kai", correct? That it can equally mean either, depending on the context?
For me, and this is one of the reasons why I like the King James Version as much as I do, I like the simplicity of it's translation. When you see "kai", you will generally read "and". When I see that word, I can pretty much know it's 'kai' when I look at the Greek.
I want consistency in translation, because the English word is representing a Greek word, and using the same word to consistently translate is the clearest way to represent the Greek text.
@Wrangler
Much love!
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NO. What you said was,
David H. said: ↑
so when I say you cannot see or do not want to see it that is what I am talking about. Your view is a rooted assumption that biases your views, and it is hard to see that assumption at work in your perception.
And in THIS you are wrong.
So you change the playing field. Why do you feel you have to do that?
Address what was written, or else why do you bother? Unless you are just throwing empty arguments at me for whatever reason, maybe to feel better, or to get me to shut up. I don't know.
Much love!
An over generalization. Empty and meaningless. Vain.
Sounds good to you I suppose, but does nothing for me. That includes you then also, right? Or do you mean to say, OTHER people don't think for themselves, while you do?
Much love!
Different roles for the saints. You divide the Christian into saints and non-saints, and that is your version of a caste system.
You cannot point to a description of variations in ministries as it that divided Christians into saints and non-saints. Yes we have different roles. But that does not mean we are not saints.
A saint is another way of saying set apart for God. 1 Corinthians 12 tells us more about His plans for us, and how they are individualized. And this is in the context that we are in fact set apart for Him, and that's why He gives us these different roles.
Much love!
I'm not calling anyone a false prophet. There is a time to look at how a person acts, how they speak, in order to have understanding.
Matthew 7:15-20 KJV
15) Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16) Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17) Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18) A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19) Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
2 Peter 2:1 KJV
1) But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
God has told us, we should be aware.
Those who would be teachers are held to a higher standard.
James 3:1-2 KJV
1) My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
2) For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
Much love!
Matthew 7:15-20 KJV
15) Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16) Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17) Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18) A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19) Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
2 Peter 2:1 KJV
1) But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
God has told us, we should be aware.
Those who would be teachers are held to a higher standard.
James 3:1-2 KJV
1) My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
2) For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
Much love!
Have you ever debated an atheist with ingrained assumptions? That is very similar to what I am talking about with this doctrine of saints being all believers. You have to dig to the root of these assumptions for the atheist to even begin to see that there is another way to see things that is viable.
Catchers in Baseball are the gritty hard nosed members of any team, they are often marred by injuries, and have their career shortened due to them. But a a baseball team is lost without them or even a with just a rookie catcher who has not been through the bumps and bruises. The Catchers are like the saints of the church. The Pitchers on the other hand are coddled, they pitch once every five or six games, are not allowed to bat or if they are many times they go up to bunt the ball, if they get on base they Put on a jacket, and or are pinch run for, just so they do not get injured. They are just as indispensible for the team as well as the catchers are, But they are protected. They are like the faithful. That is Paul's point in 1 Corinthians 12, that all are part of the same body even those who appear less honorable are all the more honorable. It is just envy inside of man that makes one not like this structure in the church.
The way God set up the church is in three stages of faith, the children, the young men, and the fathers(Elders). (1 John 2) This is also seen in the beatitudes in which you have three sets of three beatitudes each applying to these three stages of our faith journey. The last of those is the elders who deal with the things saints deal with. We are all on that same journey, but few of us are called to make that saintly sacrifice and receive the reward of a saint.
Just the same . . .
David H. said: ↑
so when I say you cannot see or do not want to see it that is what I am talking about. Your view is a rooted assumption that biases your views, and it is hard to see that assumption at work in your perception.
And in THIS you are wrong.
But it's a lot easier for you to attack your opponent than to show a Scriptural response. Claims of bias based in assumptions are a way to avoid profible discussion.
Baseball teams?
Lets stay with the Bible.
Yes we mature. Yes we grow. No we are not divided into castes. No we are not bereft of Godly help until some future day.
That is Paul's point in 1 Corinthians 12, that all are part of the same body
Yes! Though we have different roles, we are NOT divided into your supposed castes.
Christ unites us, men divide us.
Much love!
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
If you want to convince me of anything . . . first, I don't accept that you have much maturity in the Lord, given how you act. How you speak to me. About me. Not just me, others. I've seen you do the same to others. It's just the way it is. You bury people in accusations of whatever when they contradict your teaching. That says a lot!
Tell that to BB . He treats folks who wont agree with him like the the spawn of satan . Try telling this line
where it might do some good . Truth is , i dont see how on earth some of you all can agree with SOME of the things BB even says .
Used to be most folks would have at least said , if one lived in sin or fell away they never KNEW CHRIST .
But not ol BB . HE says one can rush right back into UNBELIEF and still they are saved . CORRECT that man my friend .
HE is dangerous . As much as i love ol BB , HE is very dangerous . Cause HE can spout a part of the gospel that is SPOT ON RIGHT
yet what he adds to it , DEADLY DANGEROUS . BUT i guess that is okay for most folks .
You are my friend and I love you.
@Blood Bought 1953 may not have the most palettable manner. He's not like me, I know that. And maybe that's good, and maybe not, I'm not the judge.
I find that telling the children of God that they still have to fear the possibility of coming spiritual death to be debilitating to the faith that allows us to live godly lives.
Hebrews 2:11-15 KJV
11) For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12) Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
13) And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15) And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Tell me . . . should we still fear that we could yet die?
Much love!
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