Our generation will not die before the rapture and the return of Jesus to earth. PTL

[No Pre-TB]

The Fig Tree (and all the trees) are not Israel, they are symbolic for the season, the time when we see these things happening

Finally, something I can agree with you on.

 

[Wrangler]

Our generation will not die before the rapture and the return of Jesus to earth.

I pray you are right.

 

[Wrangler]

Forty years is but the half-life of most men, but it is the time of their reign during their generation, when they are grown but not yet old. Thus, the common biblical reference of it.

Absurd. Generation is a biological phenomena, corresponding to the time it takes to generate the next line of descent. It is not a hard and fast number.

Most people generate every 20-25 years but in America that is getting drawn out. I was 27 and my daughter was 28. My mother and grandmother were 22. Of course, this is all based on 1st borns.

4 generations per century is a good average.

 

[ScottA]

Absurd. Generation is a biological phenomena, corresponding to the time it takes to generate the next line of descent. It is not a hard and fast number.

Most people generate every 20-25 years but in America that is getting drawn out. I was 27 and my daughter was 28. My mother and grandmother were 22. Of course, this is all based on 1st borns.

4 generations per century is a good average.

Yeah, you're probably right...all the fathers in the bible probably retired when they had their first born. What was I thinking?!

 

[Wrangler]

Yeah, you're probably right...all the fathers in the bible probably retired when they had their first born. What was I thinking?!

A generation has NOTHING to do with retiring. 2 independent concepts.

 

[ScottA]

A generation has NOTHING to do with retiring. 2 independent concepts.

Jee, ya think?!

 

[Randy Kluth]

Our generation will not die before the rapture and the return of Jesus to earth. PT
Jesus named all the signs we will see just before His return
In Matthew 24 Matthew 24: 32 “Now learn the parable from the fig tree: as soon as its branch has become tender and sprouts its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33 so you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Don't be left behind!

That's certainly not a prophecy, but rather, just your own logical thinking. And I don't think it's well-founded either, because the fig tree represented the birth pain signs of the coming demolition of Jerusalem and the temple. The fig tree metaphor was not being used of Israel in this context, and clearly indicated that the leaves of summer were coming, but that what resulted was to be a national disaster.

It was to be a time of growth and expansion, because Messiah had come. But instead, Israel had him crucified, and rejected him. The result was the destruction of both Jerusalem and the temple, as indicated in Dan 9.26-27.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Jesus named all the signs we will see just before His return
In Matthew 24 Matthew 24: 32

Good morning GISMYS_7,
In your statement above, what do you think of Matthew 24:29 as it's part of your conclusion. I'll post the verse below.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

If the sign of the son of man comes after the sun and moon darkening, the stars falling from heaven etc..and Ezekiel 32:7 says:

When I extinguish you, I will cover the heavens and darken their stars. I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon will not give its light.

Do you believe this parallels Revelation 6:12-13 after the 6th seal is opened? If not, how do you explain it away in order to form a timeline for a resurrection of the dead

Edit: In Ezekiel, the "I" was Pharoah. Who do you think the "I" is if the sign is applied in Revelation? Babylon or all people?

 

[Dave Watchman]

Tell you what. In 2028, I’ll be looking for every Pre-TBer, when nothing happens, waiting for ALL of them to say, “ I was wrong, I’m not a seer, I’m a farmer, a doctor, a musician” or some other job. When nothing happens, I hope people recognize their mistake and repent.

Btw, how many nations were born in 1948?

I would love to talk to you in 2028.

But I think we don't have that much time remaining.

I think it's happening now.

That's what I think.

If you contend Israel was born in 1948, and if you follow this passage, who are all the other nations born in 1948? Or are you just picking Israel out of a hat of sorts and have no verse to support it? Btw, Israel was never destroyed to be born. It was here when Israel walked and it continues today in the true church. We are all spiritual Israelites.

The Fig Tree, and ALL the trees, were the continuation, or the culmination, of the partitioning of the old Ottoman Empire.

"All the trees" = the birth of what we have come to know now as the modern Arab nations. This ended up with the partitioning of Palestine. I wonder if that can be worded better?

Maybe watch a video:

Or look at a picture:

"Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth,
ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.​

After WW2, between 1943 and 1952, all of the coun-trees surrounding Israel also became nations again after many years of hyber-nation. All within five years of the Fig-Tree.

Starting from the top and continuing clockwise: Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt.

Lebanon (1943)

Following World War I, France acquired a mandate over the northern portion of the former Ottoman Empire province of Syria. The French separated out the region of Lebanon in 1920, and granted this area independence in 1943.

Syria (1946)

Following World War I, France acquired a mandate over the northern portion of the former Ottoman Empire province of Syria. The French administered the area as Syria until granting it independence in 1946.

Jordan (1946)

Following World War I and the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire, the UK received a mandate to govern much of the Middle East. Britain separated out a semi-autonomous region of Transjordan from Palestine in the early 1920s, and the area gained its independence in 1946; it adopted the name of Jordan in 1950.

Egypt (1952)

Partially independent from the UK in 1922, Egypt acquired full sovereignty with the overthrow of the British-backed monarchy in 1952.

Israel (1948)

Following World War II, Britain withdrew from its mandate of Palestine, and the UN proposed partitioning the area into Arab and Jewish states, an arrangement rejected by the Arabs. Nonetheless, an Israeli state was declared in 1948 and Israel subsequently defeated the Arab armies in a series of wars that did not end deep tensions between the two sides.​

These were not a coincidence.

The Bible writers knew that the circumstances which would cause the Fig Tree to sprout leaves, would also cause Israel's neighbours to come out in leaf too.

All between the years 1943 and 1952, all within five years of the birth of The Fig Tree in 1948. These trees were not even nations before WW1 they were just parts of the Ottoman Empire and then parts of the British Empire or the French.

The Bible writers also knew that the cries from these stones would be reaching their crescendo now:

"So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.​

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Right... and what are you doing to prepare for Jesus coming at the end of the Tribulation?
Are you one of the wise "virgins" that has prepared extra oil for the long night?
Or are you a "foolish virgin" that has only enough oil to shine while the night is young?

You make an excellent point David Boyer. For the sake of others reading, notice in verse 6:

6And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him

It could have happened at any time, but for the audience, the cry was made at midnight. Why such a late hour when people are asleep? Midnight is a time when there is complete darkness outside. If the 5 wise virgins carry oil, they can see their footsteps in complete darkness. The idea wasn't just explaining a difference between 2 groups: The wise vs. the unwise. It also carries details of why they needed to carry oil. The unwise had all day to do what they wanted and never considered Christ would come at a late hour (beyond date's man sets.) And the unwise also did not consider even planning to be awoken in such a late hour when there is only darkness outside. Why would their master operate at an hour that seems unfriendly to everyone's sleeping schedule? Yet the wise are prepared. They are not removed to a wedding in the light before the darkness comes. It's actually in the darkness, hours into it, that they still remain faithful. While enduring the darkness around them, they have their dim light and are found worthy. Is this darkness tribulation? Yes. Is this darkness rumors of wars, pestilences and famines? Yes. Is this darkness when the light of the sun, moon and stars fades? Yes, How could anyone doubt it? This is just 1 more reason making the resurrection of the dead preceding the 6th seal as an impossibility.

 

[No Pre-TB]

The Fig Tree, and ALL the trees, were the continuation, or the culmination, of the partitioning of the old Ottoman Empire.

"All the trees" = the birth of what we have come to know now as the modern Arab nations. This ended up with the partitioning of Palestine. I wonder if that can be worded better?

See right there, you deviated from the text. If you suggest Israel is the fig tree and it was born in 1948, then all the other trees also must be born in 1948. They were not when the Ottoman Empire partitioned. They have dates spanning all around it rendering a thesis such as that void. Otherwise, "all of the other trees" are still being born. We just saw 4 more born out of Ukraine when Russia annexed them.

As @Ronald David Bruno said: The Fig Tree (and all the trees) are not Israel, they are symbolic for the season, the time when we see these things happening. And he is correct it. The context of the passage was about "when you see these things happen". What things?

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The verse some mistakenly say is for the Jews, not for us. Yet it's for us and refers to Christ 2nd Advent. Christ said when we see those things, then he is at the door. He did not say when you see fleshly brick and mortar Israel being reborn...wait Master, Israel is reborn? But we're standing in Israel today and you're preaching to us. He simply told them those events would happen prior to his arrival and afterwards, he would come and have his people gathered. Any other reading into it is eisegesis. The context is very clear. That doesn't negate the possibility that Christ would return in 2028. But there is no scripture to insinuate that he does based on physical Israel and a calculated year created by man.

 

[Dave Watchman]

But there is no scripture to insinuate that he does based on physical Israel and a calculated year created by man.

I'm not saying that God is coming back to start up old Israel again, I'm saying that old Israel starting up again is a sign to watch out for this again:

“Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and ...​

If Israel didn't start up and become a nation again, there probably wouldn't be a chance for this man to appear and make a modern day decree to restore Jerusalem again:

He would have also known that his command, his decree in January 1969, was occurring at exactly 62 weeks after the decree from the Ottoman Empire in 1535 that resulted in the placing of these stones:

With the combination of these two decrees reaching their crescendo now, I think I can safely say, as Jesus did early in Mark, that the time has been fulfilled again, and the Kingdom of God is at hand.

In an environment where price action makes for market commentary, the prophetic time period can force the doctrine. We are in the heptad for all to be soon be fulfilled now.

Even so,
Come Lord Jesus.

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[No Pre-TB]

I'm saying that old Israel starting up again is a sign to watch out for this again:

“Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and ...

Don't you think that is dangerous? You are quoting Daniel and if we follow that fulfilled prophecy, we arrive at:
And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;

I hope you don't think our Lord will but killed a 2nd time?

 

[Dave Watchman]

Don't you think that is dangerous? You are quoting Daniel and if we follow that fulfilled prophecy, we arrive at:
And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;

I hope you don't think our Lord will but killed a 2nd time?

I'm glad you pointed that out.

No, obviously, our Lord will not be killed a second time.

Because, as you have pointed out, He already fulfilled that timeline, and after the 62 weeks, was cut off, (putting an end to sacrifice), in the middle of the last heptad on April 7, 30AD.

With the 7 AND 62 weeks being separate timelines, as Isaac Newton suggested in his Daniel 9 commentary, there probably would be a secondary application of these weeks prior to the second coming of Christ.

So if there were any truth to what he said, we should be able to find two more modern day decrees to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem in the last days.

It seems clear to me that they, the commands, are here.

Like seeing the Fingerprint of the Hand of God.

We are here.

We are in the middle of the last heptad. Again.

Equivalent in time to when this same Jesus will return in like manner as you have seen Him go.

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[No Pre-TB]

there probably would be a secondary application of these weeks prior to the second coming of Christ.

Except Daniel was told, 70 weeks to accomplish. Not 77 weeks. It was even said:
spoke with me, saying: “O Daniel, I have come now to give you insight and understanding.

This portion wasn’t a riddle, dark speech or in the spirit. He plainly told Daniel what would happen. So there is nothing hidden in the meaning. No duality, no extra weeks.

 

[Dave Watchman]

Except Daniel was told, 70 weeks to accomplish. Not 77 weeks. It was even said:
spoke with me, saying: “O Daniel, I have come now to give you insight and understanding.

This portion wasn’t a riddle, dark speech or in the spirit. He plainly told Daniel what would happen. So there is nothing hidden in the meaning. No duality, no extra weeks.

There's not extra, or additional weeks over and above the 70, there's just two separate timelines, based on multiple decrees, until Messiah the Prince. I don't see where you're getting 77 weeks, 7 and 62 (69) + the last heptad is 70 weeks.

I'm not a fan of dual prophecies either, this is something different, something unique.

Nowhere else in the Bible do they split up the timelines of the prophetic time periods like by saying 7 and 62 intervals. Time, times and half a time comes close, but nobody says 420 and 420 and 420 days are the time that the Dragon will chase the Woman. Like Newton suggested while addressing that enigmatic language, the times in Daniel 9 are separated for a reason. Not really a dual prophecy, but a unique and simultaneous prophecy whenever you see the correct command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem. Better start counting weeks.

70 weeks were determined for Daniel's people.

And if those Old Time Jews would have redeemed the 70 weeks, something different would have happened.

But they missed the time of their visitation.

What would have happened if they didn't miss the time of their visitation?

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!​

What if the Old Time Jews were willing and did let Jesus gather them as a hen gathers it's chicks?

Would their house still be left to them desolate?

Or would something different have transpired?

Now the New Testament has redefined some terminology and we are Daniel's People.

No need to write a long note on why Daniel 9 had to have the provision built in for a secondary application at this point in time. If Newton was incorrect about Daniel 9's enigmatic language referring to two comings of Messiah, we would not be able to find these modern day decrees to restore Jerusalem at this time.

Another way to word it is that if there were NOT two modern day decrees to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem set out at exactly 62 weeks, (434 years) right now, I would not be writing a message on this forum today.

Peaceful Sabbath.