Our generation will not die before the rapture and the return of Jesus to earth. PTL

[Ronald David Bruno]

Hello Ronald. As you noted, past “teachers” of eschatology got it wrong. The spirit did not give them that info. It was the itching ears and fables of men that lead them to wherever they wandered. Hal Lindsey said:

A generation in the Bible is something like forty years. If this is a correct deduction, then within forty years or so of 1948, all these things could take place.

Chuck Smith said,
I believe that the generation of 1948 is the last generation. Since a generation of judgment is forty years and the Tribulation period lasts seven years, I believe the Lord could come back for His Church any time before the Tribulation starts, which would mean any time before 1981 (1948 + 40 – 7 = 1981).

Both of them were wrong. The Psalm’s verse is about man’s lifespan and not a generation. Using it for the return of Christ or tribulation will also prove as a failure. The context of that passage is when we get to 70-80 years, we’re so fragile, old and weak that we fade away. At that time in our life, why would we wish for an extension? For another 20 years or whatever man wants? It’s has absolutely nothing to do with Israel. That would be eisegesis.

But God has a covenant with Israel and many prophecies yet to be fulfilled. Romans 11 confirms He is not done with Israel and much of Old Testament eschatology and Revelation concerns Israel. I could list dozens of scriptures that you would reject or misinterpret.
But this is fine if you choose not to accept it and hope for Christ's return to judge evil, rid the world of it and establish a peaceful, loving Millennial Kingdom. No problem, have it your way ... continue to wait or die first.

 

[No Pre-TB]

I could list dozens of scriptures that you would reject or misinterpret.

Wow! I’m already judged before you look at the fruit. I’m still eagerly waiting on the heaven verse….

 

[Timtofly]

A generation in the Bible is something like forty years. If this is a correct deduction, then within forty years or so of 1948, all these things could take place.

Where does Scripture teach a generation is 40 years?

You do know Isaac was a 40 year old virgin when his dad played matchmaker? Is that the rule, or the exception?

 

[No Pre-TB]

I've felt that Christ will return soon. But I've been wrong before so I'm really not sure.

Nothing wrong with that my friend. Search it out, pray about it. Look at all forms of eschatology and search the scriptures for the truth.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Wow! I’m already judged before you look at the fruit. I’m still eagerly waiting on the heaven verse….

In the Old Testament, the Messianic prophecies were not fully understood and blurry. The concept of the afterlife was not clear. Prophets like Job, did not comprehend the First Coming of Christ, let alone the Second Coming of Christ. We learn from Job to hold onto our faith when the trials and tribulations come. That is the message from Job. Je was a righteous man and did not curse God for his predicament. It's pathetic that you would pick out one verse, Job 14:12, in the midst of his devastating losses, suffering and his bantering with his friends and God, confusion as to why all this was happening to him, to prove your view of the timing Second Coming. God tells him in chapters 38-41 that he doesn't know much about anything. God did not give him that knowledge nor was that his purpose for him.
Besides, in that context, while he was distraught, he was using lots of symbolism, analogies and hyperbole about life and death. That verse is not a reference to the timing of our resurrection.

You ask why we need Jesus to return? In our generation (70-80 years) according to David in Psalm 90:10, we have seen Israel become a nation in 1948. After the Jews were scattered throughout the world over 1800 years ago, we have seen prophecy fulfilled, God gathered them and brought them back home.
Jeremiah 16:15 ; Ezekiel 37:21
Then in 1967, Israel re-captures Jerusalem.
At around this time we saw changes in the world, moral decay. The USA, the greatest nation ever, blessed by God through centuries sees prayer taken out of schools in 1962; an assasination in 63'; a welfare program begins as our previously strong work ethic declined; a drug revolution a few years later; abortions legalized in 74'. 50 million babies just in the US have been deprived of the life that God created. Before 1974, homosexuality was considered perverted, taboo and even psychiatrists condsidered it "mental ddisorder". That's right things are not in order in their minds, the natural order designed by God. And now it's legal. Way back then we used to be able to trust the news. Wow, what a difference now.
We have seen the planning of this One World Government disguised as the Global Warming/Climate Accord for decades and mow it has arrived disguised, with a worldwide pandemic as a catalyst. Lockdowns, masks, control, based on lies and fear that has been fabricated to create an illusion. What is considered something good, a necessary vaccine, is IMHO is purposed to depopulate the world as we will soon see.
At no other time has control of the entire world been realized.
You ask why the need for Jesus return? You can't figure that one out? I'll help. To rid this cesspool of sin and evil.
We have reached the precipise in history when good and evil will separate. The sides are drawn, peiple will make their choice and judgment is imminent.
In no other time in history has Matthew 24:14 occurred. This is the key and final sign that Jesus gave us of His return. Preceding that sign is what we have been and are experiencing: wars, an increase of earthquakes, famine, pestilence and lawlessness. Oh BTW, I am not a Pre-tribber either. Although I would prefer them right. No, like Job, we will have to suffer through some of it, not his wrath though - which comes in the Seven Bowls.

Here is a refresher course.
Zechariah 12:3
Daniel 7:25
Daniel 8:23, 24
Daniel 12:1
Hebrews 9:28
Acts of the Apostles 1:11
1 Corinthians 11:26
Revelation 1:7
Matthew 24:29-35
1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17
Psalm 9:7
Isaiah 1:28
Isaiah 13:9-13
Isaiah 33:14
Isaiah 34:8-11
Isaiah 66:15, 16
Zephaniah 1:18
Zechariah12:9, 10
Psalm 11:16
Zechariah 14:2-4, 12
Matthew 3:12
Matthew 25:41
Revelation 6-22

 

[David Boyer]

Where does Scripture teach a generation is 40 years?

You do know Isaac was a 40 year old virgin when his dad played matchmaker? Is that the rule, or the exception?

Well you could make a case for...

Heb 3:9 in which tempt Me did your fathers, they did prove Me, and saw My works forty years;
Heb 3:10 wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, Always do they go astray in heart, and these have not known My ways;

"Forty years" and "that generation" appear to refer to the same group. So 40=generation is an acceptable reading of the passage.

 

[ScottA]

Well you could make a case for...

Heb 3:9 in which tempt Me did your fathers, they did prove Me, and saw My works forty years;
Heb 3:10 wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, Always do they go astray in heart, and these have not known My ways;

"Forty years" and "that generation" appear to refer to the same group. So 40=generation is an acceptable reading of the passage.

Forty years is but the half-life of most men, but it is the time of their reign during their generation, when they are grown but not yet old. Thus, the common biblical reference of it.

 

[David Boyer]

Forty years is but the half-life of most men, but it is the time of their reign during their generation, when they are grown but not yet old. Thus, the common biblical reference of it.

Right, so 40=generation, correct.

 

[ScottA]

Right, so 40=generation, correct.

As true as can be stated.

For instance: 7 times were appointed for Daniel's people, 4 times for their captivity (their reign); and on the 4th day "God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night", etc., etc..

 

[No Pre-TB]

t. It's pathetic that you would pick out one verse, Job 14:12, in the midst of his devastating losses, suffering and his bantering with his friends and God, confusion as to why all this was happening to him, to prove your view of the timing Second Coming.

I mentioned 1 verse, out of many in my armory. And you have still not addressed it.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I mentioned 1 verse, out of many in my armory. And you have still not addressed it.

I did. Symbolism, analogy, hyperbole ... the whole context of his message was enveloped in a state of distraught, agony and pain, and crying out words ( that God claims later did have wisdom - chapter 38), like we would allude to in a similar state, "... till kingdom come or the end of time". Maybe what he really meant was "till the fat lady sings!"

 

[michaelvpardo]

You seems to have ignored the fact that in order for the Tribulation to begin, the Antichrist must be in total control. And in order for that to happen the Holy Spirit must be "taken out of the way". Which would mean that the Church (the Body of Christ) is also taken out of the way (since the saints are indwelt by the Holy Spirit). It is only then that God will send such "strong delusion" upon the earth that the majority of unbelievers will believe all the lies of Satan and the Antichrist. And it is only after he sets up the Abomination of Desolation that the Great Tribulation will be triggered.

The Tribulation and Great Tribulation are expressions of God's wrath. And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound! (Rev 8:13) And since the saints are not subject to God's wrath they will not face the Tribulation. This is called "the hour of temptation" or "the hour of testing", and the saints are preserved from this.

Just as Lot and his family were forcibly removed from Sodom before God's wrath came upon Sodom and Gomorrah, the Church will be removed from the earth at the Rapture so that only the unbelieving, the ungodly, and the wicked are targeted. Lot is called "righteous" in the Bible (even though many of his words and deeds were unrighteous). And all believers are deemed to be righteous through the imputed righteousness which God places to each one's account.

Also, the fact that the 144,000 redeemed believing Jews are preserved from the Tribulation is another powerful evidence that the Church (believers) will also be preserved: Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. (Rev 7:3)

So unless all these things are taken into account, people will continue to have half-baked ideas about the future events.

Well, by what power do the last 2 witnesses give prophecy and work signs?

 

[ScottA]

You seems to have ignored the fact that in order for the Tribulation to begin, the Antichrist must be in total control. And in order for that to happen the Holy Spirit must be "taken out of the way". Which would mean that the Church (the Body of Christ) is also taken out of the way (since the saints are indwelt by the Holy Spirit). It is only then that God will send such "strong delusion" upon the earth that the majority of unbelievers will believe all the lies of Satan and the Antichrist. And it is only after he sets up the Abomination of Desolation that the Great Tribulation will be triggered.

This is a common misunderstanding...and the very reason for the "restraining."

2 Thessalonians 2
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, 17 comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work.​

Most believe that Satan is the one being restrained--and he is somewhat, only not in the way that is believed. Satan is restrained from Israel (for Christ died for them and won the victory over Satan regarding them). Satan is also restrained from those "in Christ", but only so much as allows "the man of sin is revealed" in them...which is the judgement of the gentiles.

But He whom the above passage actually refers to, is Jesus, who is restrained from executing the lake of fire judgment upon Satan who is allowed to remain for the "short time" of the gentiles. This is the result of the out pouring of God's spirit upon "all flesh", even upon the evil who were foretold to enter into and stand in "the holy place", which is the body of Christ, the church. This is the abomination that makes desolation spoken of by Daniel and confirmed by Jesus, and only eluded to hear by Paul (according to the restraining placed upon Jesus who commissioned him).

Then comes the end.

 

[Timtofly]

Well you could make a case for...

Heb 3:9 in which tempt Me did your fathers, they did prove Me, and saw My works forty years;
Heb 3:10 wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, Always do they go astray in heart, and these have not known My ways;

"Forty years" and "that generation" appear to refer to the same group. So 40=generation is an acceptable reading of the passage.

You do know that they were given 40 years in the wilderness, equal to the forty days they spied out the land, and brought back a bad report?

Yes God was displeased with that generation coming out of Egypt. They built a golden calf at Mt Sinai. They murmered and complained. They told God it was impossible to take the Promised Land.

40 years in the wilderness had nothing whatsoever to do with a generation time frame, but the life expectancy giving enough time to kill off almost 2 generations. Those over 20 all had to die. So 2 generations, those who were 20 and those who were 40.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Maybe what he really meant was "till the fat lady sings!"

Tell you what. In 2028, I’ll be looking for every Pre-TBer, when nothing happens, waiting for ALL of them to say, “ I was wrong, I’m not a seer, I’m a farmer, a doctor, a musician” or some other job. When nothing happens, I hope people recognize their mistake and repent.

Btw, how many nations were born in 1948?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Tell you what. In 2028, I’ll be looking for every Pre-TBer, when nothing happens, waiting for ALL of them to say, “ I was wrong, I’m not a seer, I’m a farmer, a doctor, a musician” or some other job. When nothing happens, I hope people recognize their mistake and repent.

Btw, how many nations were born in 1948?

But you'll to wait to tell the Mid-tribbers (me) that they were wrong until after the Great Tribulation is over ... but you would have to concede and give us all (Post-Tribbers too) credit for seeing the signs that identified this generation.
1948 is when Israel was reborn, other nations are irrelevant to prophecy.

 

[bbyrd009]

if you think Israel, Inc, the country, and Israel the Nation are the same, i would think again fwiw

 

[bbyrd009]

I've felt that Christ will return soon. But I've been wrong before so I'm really not sure.

simple test for that, just try and Quote “Christ, returning” from anywhere the Bible; that would be shuvu in Hebrew or hupo strepho in Greek

 

[No Pre-TB]

1948 is when Israel was reborn, other nations are irrelevant to prophecy.

You believe Israel is the fig tree do you not? And you said it was born in 1948 right? People that take Luke 21:29 that way must answer the rest.

And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;

If you contend Israel was born in 1948, and if you follow this passage, who are all the other nations born in 1948? Or are you just picking Israel out of a hat of sorts and have no verse to support it? Btw, Israel was never destroyed to be born. It was here when Israel walked and it continues today in the true church. We are all spiritual Israelites.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

You believe Israel is the fig tree do you not? And you said it was born in 1948 right? People that take Luke 21:29 that way must answer the rest.

And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;

If you contend Israel was born in 1948, and if you follow this passage, who are all the other nations born in 1948? Or are you just picking Israel out of a hat of sorts and have no verse to support it? Btw, Israel was never destroyed to be born. It was here when Israel walked and it continues today in the true church. We are all spiritual Israelites.

Luke 21 ...
*great distress in the land and wrath upon this people.
>Jerusalem will once again be attacked by many nations.
*led away captive into all nations.
> Jesus said persecution will come to many for His name sake (Christians)
*Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
> the birth of the Gentiles had just got under way 40 years prior to 70AD. This is talking the far off future, about the fulfillment of the Gentiles, (Matthew 24:14 discusses this time period, when "the Gospel is preached to the entire world - then the end will come".)
> This is the key sign.
> This is the consummation of the Gospel being spread, the time when it is complete. In no other time in history has the gospel been spread to the entire planet - every nation. It just recently has been.

His Second Coming

* signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars;
> Rev. 21:1
*on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity,
> distress of all nations, not just one
*the sea and the waves roaring;
> this is not just caused by hurricanes, this would be cataclysmic, super volcanic eruptions, an asteroid, a world wide earthquake ...
*men’s hearts failing them from fear
*powers of the heavens will be shaken.
* Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
>every eye will physically see Him
"Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”

The Fig Tree (and all the trees) are not Israel, they are symbolic for the season, the time when we see these things happening

> "when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near."
> "this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place"