Our Spiritual Bodies

[ChristisGod]

Philippians 3:20-21
For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
NASB

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you.
NASB

Believers bodies will be transformed from its current state which is corrupt, sinful mortal to a body like His which Incorruptible, Holy/Sinless and Immortal in the Resurrection as per 1 Cor 15, Romans 8:11, Phil 3:21.

And when we compare the above with Paul in these passages below we see that the body(soma) in the context is a real material body which is physical in the Resurrection but controlled completely by the Spirit in the afterlife.

pneumatikos: spiritual

Original Word: πνευματικός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: pneumatikos
Phonetic Spelling: (pnyoo-mat-ik-os')
Definition: spiritual
Usage: spiritual.

Thayer’s Greek Lexicon- belonging to the Divine Spirit; Used 26 times in the N.T.

a. in reference to things; emanating from the Divine Spirit, or exhibiting its effects and so its character: χάρισμα, Romans 1:11; εὐλογία, Ephesians 1:3; σοφία καί σύνεσις πνευματικῇ (opposed to σοφία σαρκικῇ, 2 Corinthians 1:12; ψυχική, James 3:15), Colossians 1:9; ᾠδαί, divinely inspired, and so redolent of the Holy Spirit, Colossians 3:16; (Ephesians 5:19 Lachmann brackets); ὁ νόμος (opposed to a σάρκινος man), Romans 7:14; θυσίαι, tropically, the acts of a life dedicated to God and approved by him, due to the influence of the Holy Spirit (tacitly opposed to the sacrifices of an external worship), 1 Peter 2:5; equivalent to produced by the sole power of God himself without natural instrumeutality, supernatural, βρῶμα, πόμα, πέτρα, 1 Corinthians 10:3, 4 ((cf. 'Teaching' etc. 10, 3 [ET])); πνευματικά, thoughts, opinions, precepts, maxims, ascribable to the Holy Spirit working in the soul, 1 Corinthians 2:13 (on which see συγκρίνω, 1); τά πνευματικά, spirithal gifts — of the endowments called χαρίσματα (see χάρισμα), 1 Corinthians 12:1; 1 Corinthians 14:1; universally, the spiritual or heavenly blessings of the gospel, opposed to τά σαρκικά, Romans 15:27; (1 Corinthians 9:11).

b. in reference to persons; one who is filled with and governed by the Spirit of God: 1 Corinthians 2:15 (cf. ); (); ; Galatians 6:1; οἶκος πνευματικός, of a body of Christians (see οἶκος, 1 b. at the end), 1 Peter 2:5. (The word is not found in the O. T. (cf. Winers Grammar, § 34, 3).


Natural(psychikos) body
Spiritual(pneumatikos) body


1 Corinthians 15:44
it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

Below we see how Paul uses and contrasts the words natural (psychikos) and spiritual (pneumatikos) below;


1 Corinthians 2:14-16
14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no man.

Paul is clearly contrasting the unsaved with the saved with the natural man and spiritual man. One is controlled by the natural or the flesh while the other is controlled by the spirit/spiritual- Holy Spirit. Just like in 1 Cor 15:44 where Paul is contrasting the natural body that is controlled by the flesh with the spiritual body that is controlled by the Spirit. Both are real physical bodies but the difference is one is controlled by the flesh which is carnal and the other is controlled by the Spirit and is spiritual. One has the appetites and desires of the flesh while the other has appetites and desires controlled by the Spirit. Hence a spiritual body is one that is controlled by the Spirit of God in the Resurrection.

Paul’s usage below of spiritual(pneumatikos) in 1 Corinthians 10 where he calls the rock, food and drink spiritual it does not mean an immaterial rock, food and drink but a real Rock, Manna and Water which were with the Israelites in the wilderness wanderings.

1 Corinthians 10:1-4
For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and all ate the same spiritual food; 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

Now Paul drives home the point of our new literal physical bodies below in heaven from the text in 2nd Cor 5 below;

2 Corinthians 5:1-5
For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.

You see there is no bodiless spirit men in heaven unclothed (no body) but indeed with a heavenly body (like Jesus) has now in heaven which is flesh and bones like He said His Resurrected body was to His Disciples.


The word Spiritual is used to describe these physical things:


1-the spiritual man
2-he who is spiritual
3-the spiritual rock
4-the spiritual food
5-the spiritual drink
6-the spiritual songs
7-the spiritual house
8-the spiritual things
9-the spiritual body
10- the spiritual manna
11- the spiritual brothers

hope this helps,

 

[marks]

2 Corinthians 5:1-5
For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.

I'm curious, is there a reason you are using a less than literal translation? This one seems to change some parts.

Much love!

 

[ChristisGod]

I'm curious, is there a reason you are using a less than literal translation? This one seems to change some parts.

Much love!

it coincides with how we will be "clothed" in eternity whether we identify it as a house, tent or body. We will not be naked.

But that passage is not necessary for the point of the thread.

 

[ChristisGod]

I'm curious, is there a reason you are using a less than literal translation? This one seems to change some parts.

Much love!

Other than the 2 Cor 5 passage do you agree ?

 

[marks]

Other than the 2 Cor 5 passage do you agree ?

With the other passages' translation?

Much love!

 

[ChristisGod]

When you change the words, it changes the meaning.

Your translations says we will have what the actual reading says we do have. If we are talking about spiritual bodies, I think that's significant.

Much love!

I didn't change anything it was the translators, the bible translation. Besides that do you agree with spiritual and how its used in the OP and the scripture references ?

There are plenty of other references I cited besides 2 cor 5 which talks about our "spiritual" bodies.

 

[marks]

John wrote that one is antichrist who denied Jesus came in flesh, Perfect Tense. If someone denies that Jesus physically rose from among the dead, they are antichrist.

And we will be made like Him.

1 Corinthians 15:39-41 KJV
39) All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40) There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41) There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

Not the same kind of body, but a body none the less.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I didn't change anything it was the translators, the bible translation.

I meant a "general you", I realize you didn't translate the passage.

Much love!

 

[marks]

There are plenty of other references I cited besides 2 cor 5 which talks about our "spiritual" bodies.

We have them now, actually according to that passage, and are waiting being clothed with them. Kind of like, "put on the new man", that is, let the properties and nature of the new man so come over you as to overwhelm the old man fleshy life, and transform it into the new man spiritual life.

Natural(psychikos) body
Spiritual(pneumatikos) body


1 Corinthians 15:44
it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

Below we see how Paul uses and contrasts the words natural (psychikos) and spiritual (pneumatikos) below;

Psuchos - translated here natural, meaning along the lines of "soulish". A soulish body, and a spiritual body. That's interesting!

There's an interesting discussion to be had about the natural man being "soulish", psychikos. That's the psyche, as we'd now say.

Is your main idea here to say that we will have bodies, and that we won't be spirit only? This I agree with.

Much love!

 

[ChristisGod]

John wrote that one is antichrist who denied Jesus came in flesh, Perfect Tense. If someone denies that Jesus physically rose from among the dead, they are antichrist.

And we will be made like Him.

1 Corinthians 15:39-41 KJV
39) All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40) There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41) There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

Not the same kind of body, but a body none the less.

Much love!

Agreed that Jesus is still God manifest in the flesh and the spirit of antichrist denies this essential truth. I have a study on this topic.

The number one test to distinguish truth for error and the Spirit of God from that of the spirit of antichrist is the confession of our divine Lord Jesus Christ. Every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. There is one thing the spirit of antichrist will deny and that is they will deny He is God in the flesh- that He is fully God and fully man. They will deny God in human flesh. They will always deny the Incarnation which was permanent. When a person affirms that Jesus Christ is God in flesh that equates to divine truth. Every spirit that confesses meaning to continually confess or agrees with saying the same thing as John declares in his writings is from God. This is the person who is taught by the Spirit of God according to John. The first test that you want to have for any teacher is their Christology, check out what they say about Christ. This becomes a litmus test that is very easy to spot among the false teachers. If you have somebody who denies the deity of Christ you have a clear indication they are of the spirit of antichrist.

If we go back to the beginning of 1 John, we read that which we he beheld, and actually touched concerning the Word of life. That is a term expressing the very deity of Christ. Christ emanates from God as His living Word. He was with the Father in the beginning in 1:2. Jesus was One with the Father sharing the same essence with the Father in heaven with Him before the foundation of the world. John says He was manifested to us. John's language then starts out with the fact that Jesus Christ emanates from God as the very living Word of God. Jesus is the living Word of God,the One John says that was from the beginning that we heard, we saw and we touched. Jesus the Word of life was the eternal One who was with the Father prior to His Incarnation and was then manifested to us in the flesh that we could see and hear and touch according to John. Therefore, we can clearly see Jesus is the very Word of God Incarnate. He is the eternal life who became flesh. The Word who was with God, the Word who was God, was the One who John says was manifested to us. This is how we can tell the spirit of truth from the spirit of antichrist. Can you confess Jesus is God Incarnate?

1 John 4:2
By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;

2 John 7
For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

Erchomenon the present participle in 2 John 7- Below are the Greek Scholars/ Theologians on the present participle

Alford- the present tense is timeless(pg 274 RNTC on 2 John)

Brooke- the Incarnation is not only an event in history, it is an abiding truth(pg 274 RNTC on 2 John)

Stott- the two natures manhood and Godhood were united already at His birth, never to be divided. In 1 John 4:2 and here in 2 John 7 emphasizes this permanent union of the natures in the One Person ( TNTC pages 209-210) He who denies the Incarnation is not just a deceiver and an antichrist but “the deceiver and the antichrist”. There is in this heresy a double affront: it opposes Christ and deceives men.(stott TNCT page 210)

Marshall- the use of the present and perfect tenses becomes significant if the point is that Jesus Christ had come and still existed “in flesh”. For him(John) it was axiomatic that there had been a true Incarnation, that the word became flesh and remained flesh. It is a point that receives much stress in 1 John 2:18-28;4:1-6;5:5-8. (NICNT pages 70-71)

Smalley- the present tense emphasizes the permanent union of the human and Divine natures in Jesus. Gods self disclosure in Jesus took place at a particular moment in history , but it has continuing effects in the present and into the future(Word Biblical Commentary page 317)

Nicoll- the continuous manifestation of the Incarnate Christ(Expositors Greek Testament Volume 5 page 202)

Akin- Much has been made of the fact that John uses the present tense in this Christological confession. Literally the verse reads, “Jesus Christ coming in flesh.” “Coming” is a present active participle. This stands out in remarkable contrast to the affirmation of 1 John 4:2, where the text states that “Jesus Christ has [emphasis mine] come in the flesh.” There the perfect active participle is used. The key, it seems, is to discover what John is affirming. Here in 2 John the emphasis falls on the abiding reality of the incarnation. First John 4:2 teaches that the Christ, the Father’s Son (v. 3), has come in the flesh. Second John affirms that the wedding of deity and humanity has an abiding reality (cf. 1 Tim 2:5). The ontological and essential nature of the incarnation that would receive eloquent expression one thousand years later in the writing of St. Anselm (1033–1109) in his classic Cur Deus Homo is already present in seed form in the tiny and neglected letter of 2 John.

Lenski- In 1 John 4:2 we have ἐν σαρκὶ ἐληλυθότα, the perfect participle, “as having come in flesh” (incarnate, John 1:14); here we have ἐρχόμενον ἐν σαρκί, “as coming in flesh,” although the participle is present in form it is really timeless.of Christ as "still being manifested." See the note at 1 John 3:5. In 1 John 4:2 we have the manifestation treated as a past fact by the perfect tense, ‎eleeluthota ‎"has com

Robertson- That Jesus Christ cometh in the flesh ‎Ieesoun ‎‎Christon ‎‎erchomenon ‎‎en ‎‎sarki‎. "Jesus Christ coming in the flesh." Present middle participle of ‎erchomai ‎treating the Incarnation as a continuing fact which the Docetic Gnostics flatly denied. In 1 John 4:2 we have ‎eleeluthota ‎(perfect active participle) in this same construction with ‎homologeoo‎, because there the reference is to the definite historical fact of the Incarnation.

Vincent- Is come ‎erchomenon‎. Wrong. The verb is in the present participle, "coming," which describes the manhood

NT:2064
e)lhluqenai and e&rxesqaie)n sarki/ are used of the form in which Christ as the divine lo/go$ appeared among men: 1John 4:2,3 (Rec.);2John 7.of the return of Jesus here after from heaven in majesty:
(fromThayer's Greek Lexicon, PC Study Bible formatted Electronic Database.Copyright © 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

NT:2064
%Erxomai is also used of the return of the Johannine Christ (14:3;21:22f.).The time between his first and second comings is "bridged"by the coming (15:26;16:7)and the presence (14:16,26;cf. 1John 2:1)of the Paraclete. Docetic christology denies the confessional statement that "Jesus Christ has come inthe flesh" (. . . e)nsarki\ e)lhluqw/$,1John 4:2;2John 7).
(fromExegetical Dictionary of the New Testament © 1990 by William B.Eerdmans Publishing Company. All rights reserved.)

hope this helps !!!

 

[ChristisGod]

We have them now, actually according to that passage, and are waiting being clothed with them. Kind of like, "put on the new man", that is, let the properties and nature of the new man so come over you as to overwhelm the old man fleshy life, and transform it into the new man spiritual life.


Psuchos - translated here natural, meaning along the lines of "soulish". A soulish body, and a spiritual body. That's interesting!

There's an interesting discussion to be had about the natural man being "soulish", psychikos. That's the psyche, as we'd now say.

Is your main idea here to say that we will have bodies, and that we won't be spirit only? This I agree with.

Much love!

Absolutely just like our Lord, Savior, God in heaven- Jesus !

 

[ScottA]

Philippians 3:20-21
For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
NASB

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you.
NASB

Believers bodies will be transformed from its current state which is corrupt, sinful mortal to a body like His which Incorruptible, Holy/Sinless and Immortal in the Resurrection as per 1 Cor 15, Romans 8:11, Phil 3:21.

And when we compare the above with Paul in these passages below we see that the body(soma) in the context is a real material body which is physical in the Resurrection but controlled completely by the Spirit in the afterlife.

pneumatikos: spiritual

Original Word: πνευματικός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: pneumatikos
Phonetic Spelling: (pnyoo-mat-ik-os')
Definition: spiritual
Usage: spiritual.

Thayer’s Greek Lexicon- belonging to the Divine Spirit; Used 26 times in the N.T.

a. in reference to things; emanating from the Divine Spirit, or exhibiting its effects and so its character: χάρισμα, Romans 1:11; εὐλογία, Ephesians 1:3; σοφία καί σύνεσις πνευματικῇ (opposed to σοφία σαρκικῇ, 2 Corinthians 1:12; ψυχική, James 3:15), Colossians 1:9; ᾠδαί, divinely inspired, and so redolent of the Holy Spirit, Colossians 3:16; (Ephesians 5:19 Lachmann brackets); ὁ νόμος (opposed to a σάρκινος man), Romans 7:14; θυσίαι, tropically, the acts of a life dedicated to God and approved by him, due to the influence of the Holy Spirit (tacitly opposed to the sacrifices of an external worship), 1 Peter 2:5; equivalent to produced by the sole power of God himself without natural instrumeutality, supernatural, βρῶμα, πόμα, πέτρα, 1 Corinthians 10:3, 4 ((cf. 'Teaching' etc. 10, 3 [ET])); πνευματικά, thoughts, opinions, precepts, maxims, ascribable to the Holy Spirit working in the soul, 1 Corinthians 2:13 (on which see συγκρίνω, 1); τά πνευματικά, spirithal gifts — of the endowments called χαρίσματα (see χάρισμα), 1 Corinthians 12:1; 1 Corinthians 14:1; universally, the spiritual or heavenly blessings of the gospel, opposed to τά σαρκικά, Romans 15:27; (1 Corinthians 9:11).

b. in reference to persons; one who is filled with and governed by the Spirit of God: 1 Corinthians 2:15 (cf. ); (); ; Galatians 6:1; οἶκος πνευματικός, of a body of Christians (see οἶκος, 1 b. at the end), 1 Peter 2:5. (The word is not found in the O. T. (cf. Winers Grammar, § 34, 3).


Natural(psychikos) body
Spiritual(pneumatikos) body


1 Corinthians 15:44
it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

Below we see how Paul uses and contrasts the words natural (psychikos) and spiritual (pneumatikos) below;


1 Corinthians 2:14-16
14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no man.

Paul is clearly contrasting the unsaved with the saved with the natural man and spiritual man. One is controlled by the natural or the flesh while the other is controlled by the spirit/spiritual- Holy Spirit. Just like in 1 Cor 15:44 where Paul is contrasting the natural body that is controlled by the flesh with the spiritual body that is controlled by the Spirit. Both are real physical bodies but the difference is one is controlled by the flesh which is carnal and the other is controlled by the Spirit and is spiritual. One has the appetites and desires of the flesh while the other has appetites and desires controlled by the Spirit. Hence a spiritual body is one that is controlled by the Spirit of God in the Resurrection.

Paul’s usage below of spiritual(pneumatikos) in 1 Corinthians 10 where he calls the rock, food and drink spiritual it does not mean an immaterial rock, food and drink but a real Rock, Manna and Water which were with the Israelites in the wilderness wanderings.

1 Corinthians 10:1-4
For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and all ate the same spiritual food; 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.

Now Paul drives home the point of our new literal physical bodies below in heaven from the text in 2nd Cor 5 below;

2 Corinthians 5:1-5
For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.

You see there is no bodiless spirit men in heaven unclothed (no body) but indeed with a heavenly body (like Jesus) has now in heaven which is flesh and bones like He said His Resurrected body was to His Disciples.


The word Spiritual is used to describe these physical things:


1-the spiritual man
2-he who is spiritual
3-the spiritual rock
4-the spiritual food
5-the spiritual drink
6-the spiritual songs
7-the spiritual house
8-the spiritual things
9-the spiritual body
10- the spiritual manna
11- the spiritual brothers

hope this helps,

Oh, Christophany!

Rehashing the third grade lessons given to the churches does not establish them as all truth. It was just half-step language from which we were and are to press on.

Dust is still dust and is not glorified, nor is the image of mankind glorified, but every stone torn down. To the contrary, we "shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."--not dust, not image, and not either of those glorified, but spirit, as "God is spirit", and this is the Oneness of the prayer of Christ.

 

[ChristisGod]

Oh, Christophany!

Rehashing the third grade lessons given to the churches does not establish them as all truth. It was just half-step language from which we were and are to press on.

Dust is still dust and is not glorified, nor is the image of mankind glorified, but every stone torn down. To the contrary, we "shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."--not dust, not image, and not either of those glorified, but spirit, as "God is spirit", and this is the Oneness of the prayer of Christ.

Thanks for your opinion on the topic. I see you have provided no Biblical support Scott but thanks anyways !

 

[ScottA]

Agreed that Jesus is still God manifest in the flesh and the spirit of antichrist denies this essential truth. I have a study on this topic.

The number one test to distinguish truth for error and the Spirit of God from that of the spirit of antichrist is the confession of our divine Lord Jesus Christ. Every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. There is one thing the spirit of antichrist will deny and that is they will deny He is God in the flesh- that He is fully God and fully man. They will deny God in human flesh. They will always deny the Incarnation which was permanent. When a person affirms that Jesus Christ is God in flesh that equates to divine truth. Every spirit that confesses meaning to continually confess or agrees with saying the same thing as John declares in his writings is from God. This is the person who is taught by the Spirit of God according to John. The first test that you want to have for any teacher is their Christology, check out what they say about Christ. This becomes a litmus test that is very easy to spot among the false teachers. If you have somebody who denies the deity of Christ you have a clear indication they are of the spirit of antichrist.

If we go back to the beginning of 1 John, we read that which we he beheld, and actually touched concerning the Word of life. That is a term expressing the very deity of Christ. Christ emanates from God as His living Word. He was with the Father in the beginning in 1:2. Jesus was One with the Father sharing the same essence with the Father in heaven with Him before the foundation of the world. John says He was manifested to us. John's language then starts out with the fact that Jesus Christ emanates from God as the very living Word of God. Jesus is the living Word of God,the One John says that was from the beginning that we heard, we saw and we touched. Jesus the Word of life was the eternal One who was with the Father prior to His Incarnation and was then manifested to us in the flesh that we could see and hear and touch according to John. Therefore, we can clearly see Jesus is the very Word of God Incarnate. He is the eternal life who became flesh. The Word who was with God, the Word who was God, was the One who John says was manifested to us. This is how we can tell the spirit of truth from the spirit of antichrist. Can you confess Jesus is God Incarnate?

You misunderstand.

The test of John does not establish that the flesh is glorified as Christ is glorified in the way that you have stated. But rather as a test of His being "firstfruits." Thus, those who follow are also manifest in the flesh and "to live is Christ." Such is the testimony of those in whom Christ has come [again] in the flesh. But that says nothing of His ascension unto the Father. Not at all, but rather speaks of (as you even said) Jesus as being "God incarnate"--not God in-heaven, but God in-flesh...which cannot and does not inherit the kingdom of God. To the contrary, "carne" is meat, the flesh of animals.

God did indeed become flesh--but why? That God might devolve to being less than He was, being already spirit and perfect? No--but you know why--that He might overcome lowly flesh by becoming it and dying for all. That is, to bring death once and for all to the flesh. Not to glorify the flesh, but to return it to the dust, that the spirit of God would return also to God who gave it. Such is the dividing of light from darkness. This is the creation story and the plan of God, no more to destroy with water, but with fire...from which no flesh remains or inherits the kingdom.

And no, I do not need to quote to give reference. Nor is this merely my opinion.

 

[ChristisGod]

You misunderstand.

The test of John does not establish that the flesh is glorified as Christ is glorified in the way that you have stated. But rather as a test of His being "firstfruits." Thus, those who follow are also manifest in the flesh and "to live is Christ." Such is the testimony of those in whom Christ has come [again] in the flesh. But that says nothing of His ascension unto the Father. Not at all, but rather speaks of (as you even said) Jesus as being "God incarnate"--not God in-heaven, but God in-flesh...which cannot and does not inherit the kingdom of God. To the contrary, "carne" is meat, the flesh of animals.

God did indeed become flesh--but why? That God might devolve to being less than He was, being already spirit and perfect? No--but you know why--that He might overcome lowly flesh by becoming it and dying for all. That is, to bring death once and for all to the flesh. Not to glorify the flesh, but to return it to the dust, that the spirit of God would return also to God who gave it. Such is the dividing of light from darkness. This is the creation story and the plan of God, no more to destroy with water, but with fire...from which no flesh remains or inherits the kingdom.

And no, I do not need to quote to give reference. Nor is this merely my opinion.

Is Jesus still a man with a human body in heaven ? yes or no

Thanks !

 

[ChristisGod]

You misunderstand.

The test of John does not establish that the flesh is glorified as Christ is glorified in the way that you have stated. But rather as a test of His being "firstfruits." Thus, those who follow are also manifest in the flesh and "to live is Christ." Such is the testimony of those in whom Christ has come [again] in the flesh. But that says nothing of His ascension unto the Father. Not at all, but rather speaks of (as you even said) Jesus as being "God incarnate"--not God in-heaven, but God in-flesh...which cannot and does not inherit the kingdom of God. To the contrary, "carne" is meat, the flesh of animals.

God did indeed become flesh--but why? That God might devolve to being less than He was, being already spirit and perfect? No--but you know why--that He might overcome lowly flesh by becoming it and dying for all. That is, to bring death once and for all to the flesh. Not to glorify the flesh, but to return it to the dust, that the spirit of God would return also to God who gave it. Such is the dividing of light from darkness. This is the creation story and the plan of God, no more to destroy with water, but with fire...from which no flesh remains or inherits the kingdom.

And no, I do not need to quote to give reference. Nor is this merely my opinion.

Job 19:26 the oldest writing in the bible from Job.

Job 19:26
“Even after my skin is destroyed, Yet from my flesh I shall see God;

 

[ScottA]

Is Jesus still a man with a human body in heaven ? yes or no

Thanks !

Can flesh inherit the Kingdom of God?

You wanted biblical support--that is my biblical support.

 

[ChristisGod]

I will post later on the literal, physical, material Resurrected body.

 

[ChristisGod]

Can flesh inherit the Kingdom of God?

You wanted biblical support--that is my biblical support.

not corruptible flesh but Incorruptible flesh can in the Resurrection.

 

[ScottA]

Job 19:26 the oldest writing in the bible from Job.

Job 19:26
“Even after my skin is destroyed, Yet from my flesh I shall see God;

Stating a seemingly contrary verse does not establish the truth. All scripture must be reconciled.

I could reconcile it for you, but perhaps you should face it and be reconciled in yourself.