Our Spiritual Bodies

[Mr E]

More proof from scripture.

ll the Fulness of Deity dwells in Him (permanently) as per Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9.



This is how the passage reads and how it is to be understood in its " CONTEXT " from Colossians 1:19;2:9 concerning Christ being fully God lacking nothing in His Divinity while on this earth and His Ascension and also His humanity which remains permanent. The Incarnation was not temporal but Christ remains forever God in the flesh. All the fulness of Deity remains bodily.

In Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9 the Apostle Paul said, For in HIM (CHRIST) ALL of the “ fullness of deity dwells bodily. “Did Paul use the word fullness there to mean partially? NO as Jesus did not empty Himself of His Deity. Jesus Divinity is FULL, complete lacking in nothing. The ENTIRE Fullness of Deity dwells (is present) bodily in Jesus. In Colossians 1:19 it is describing His earthly ministry and Colossians 2:9 it is describing His Post Resurrection/Ascension Glory as God Incarnate.



Colossians 1:19-20

For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven



Colossians 2:9-10- For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;

Colossians 3:1- Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Paul is talking in Colossians chapters 2-3 about the glorified resurrected Christ now seated at the right hand of God not the earthly Christ pre resurrection. This is a slam dunk that He is in a human glorified resurrection body and that He continues to have all the fullness of Deity dwelling bodily in the present.



Now read the Greek below on the present ongoing meaning of DWELLS . The bodily dwelling of Deity is permanent not temporary. The Incarnation was PERMANENT.

κατοικεῖ (katoikei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's Greek 2730: To dwell in, settle in, be established in (permanently), inhabit. From kata and oikeo; to house permanently, i.e. Reside.


8.2 σωματικός, ή, όν; σωματικῶςa: (derivatives of σῶμαa ‘body,’ 8.1) pertaining to a physical body—‘bodily, physical, bodily form.’[1] Louw Nida


Expositor's Greek Testament
Colossians 2:9. in Him and in Him alone.—κατοικεῖ: “permanently dwells”. The reference is to the Exalted State, not only on account of the present, but of the context and Paul’s Christology generally.—πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος: “all the fulness of the Godhead”. πᾶν is emphatic, the whole fulness dwells in Christ.

“Dwelleth” is katoikei (κατοικει). Oikeō (Ὀικεω) means “to be at home.” Kata (Κατα), prefixed, means “down,” thus showing permanence. The compound verb was used of the permanent residents of a town as compared with the transient community. The verb is in the present tense, showing durative action. The translation reads: “Because in Him there is continuously and permanently at home all the fulness of the Godhead in bodily fashion.”

Oh boy. I hope this helps.

This is what happens when you start with an assumption, but then treat it as a conclusion while you go "in search of" things to prop up the conclusion you start with. But you didn't start with a conclusion, rather an assumption. You just pretend it's a conclusion (fact) when it's nothing more than a belief. And not all things folks believe are true. Do you believe that?


I'm glad you recognize a distinction between spirit and flesh. That's real. But then you try to put all those spiritual things back into a physical construct. That's not real. The two are distinct and different-- in a way, they are opposites, but more to the point one (the physical) is actually a reflection (an image) of the other (the spiritual). There's much more to it of course, but you need to start there, with that basic understanding of our dual nature.

 

[Mr E]

What is Jesus body now and what does it consist of, or does He even have a body now ?

If you are a Christian-- a person within whom the Christ dwells, his body is you. You are his body if he lives in you.

John explains it pretty clearly--

“I am not praying only on their behalf, but also on behalf of those who believe in me through their testimony, that they will all be one, just as you, Father, are in me and I am in you. I pray that they will be in us, so that the world will believe that you sent me. The glory you gave to me I have given to them, that they may be one just as we are one— I in them and you in me—that they may be completely one, so that the world will know that you sent me, and you have loved them just as you have loved me.

 

[ChristisGod]

I kind of wonder that Jesus can resurrect a body without the old body. He of course opened the tombs and resurrected some from their old bodies. Hmmm, don't know. But Jesus is said to be a quickening spirit. His body was formed from the Holy Ghost. And we know from testimony in the bible that God's Holy Spirit can create physical things including the universe and the first and last Adam.

Remember when Jesus was talking with Lazarus sisters and He said He was the Resurrection and the life. He that believes in Me though they die will yet live. Then He asks do you believe this ? Jesus then goes and raises/Resurrects the decaying body of Lazarus and he comes forth from the tomb after being dead for 4 days. A Resurrection is bodily, it is physical. Jesus rose bodily/physically just the same as Lazarus was raised yet Jesus was immortal, imperishable, incorruptible. Jesus rose from the grave with the scars from His crucifixion that the disciples all saw and touched as proof it was the exact same body which died and was buried in the tomb and was Raised/Resurrected back to life. Jesus Himself said: a spirit/ghost does not have FLESH and BONES as you see that I have- touch and see that it is really Me.

hope this helps !!!

 

[dev553344]

Remember when Jesus was talking with Lazarus sisters and He said He was the Resurrection and the life. He that believes in Me though they die will yet live. Then He asks do you believe this ? Jesus then goes and raises/Resurrects the decaying body of Lazarus and he comes forth from the tomb after being dead for 4 days. A Resurrection is bodily, it is physical. Jesus rose bodily/physically just the same as Lazarus was raised yet Jesus was immortal, imperishable, incorruptible. Jesus rose from the grave with the scars from His crucifixion that the disciples all saw and touched as proof it was the exact same body which died and was buried in the tomb and was Raised/Resurrected back to life. Jesus Himself said: a spirit/ghost does not have FLESH and BONES as you see that I have- touch and see that it is really Me.

hope this helps !!!

Yes I believe we are resurrected with physical bodies. But they are different in the resurrection than our mortal bodies. I'm reminded of the following scripture:

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

 

[ChristisGod]

Yes I believe we are resurrected with physical bodies. But they are different in the resurrection than our mortal bodies. I'm reminded of the following scripture:

1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

Yes different and improved but still a literal and physical body.

 

[dev553344]

Yes different and improved but still a literal and physical body.

Yes, Jesus had a physical body created by the Holy Spirit. Ours will also be spiritual in nature instead of carnal. Which leads me to the idea that perhaps our resurrected bodies are not sinful in nature either. I often wonder if we will have sexual desires with that body. The Mormons believe so, but I'm not so sure about that.

 

[ChristisGod]

Yes, Jesus had a physical body created by the Holy Spirit. Ours will also be spiritual in nature instead of carnal. Which leads me to the idea that perhaps our resurrected bodies are not sinful in nature either. I often wonder if we will have sexual desires with that body. The Mormons believe so, but I'm not so sure about that.

Yes in the Resurrection sin will no longer exist it will be done away with permanently just like death and satan who will be cast into the lake of fire eternally.

 

[ChristisGod]

I have not denied Jesus still in the flesh, but have already explained just as it is written:

That is, He did not commit His flesh body to the Father but His spirit only, and gave His body of flesh to the church, saying "take, eat, this is My body"; after which He too explained that He stands and the door and knocks, and if anyone opens the door He comes [again] in to the flesh. This is the testimony that John referred to, that Jesus has come in the flesh.​

​

But you apparently also confuse Jesus' resurrection in the flesh with His ascension, both of which are by the power of God in spirit, the one death, and the other life unto God. For this reason they were and are two different events. This is why He told His disciples that it was better for them if He went to the Father...because it facilitated the church becoming His body...without which there would be no testimony that He has come again in the flesh, and yet He has come. I for one do testify of it.

you don't understand literal vs figurative language in the Bible. You conflate them hence you deny Jesus is still a man with a literal, physical, material body of flesh and bones like He declared He was to His disciples after His bodily Resurrection from the dead,

Luke 24:39-40
Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet

John 20:20
After He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. The disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord.

John 20:27
Then Jesus said to Thomas, "Put your finger here and look at My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe."


The disciples saw His physical body and touched His physical body which still retains His crucifixion marks in His side,hands and feet.

At His 2nd Coming below we see the following which is still in the future. He still has His Crucifixion marks in His body when He returns.

Zech 12:10
“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

Rev 1:7
Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him--even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen.




hope this helps !!!

 

[ScottA]

you don't understand literal vs figurative language in the Bible. You conflate them hence you deny Jesus is still a man with a literal, physical, material body of flesh and bones like He declared He was to His disciples after His bodily Resurrection from the dead,

Luke 24:39-40
Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet

John 20:20
After He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. The disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord.

John 20:27
Then Jesus said to Thomas, "Put your finger here and look at My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe."


The disciples saw His physical body and touched His physical body which still retains His crucifixion marks in His side,hands and feet.

At His 2nd Coming below we see the following which is still in the future. He still has His Crucifixion marks in His body when He returns.

Zech 12:10
“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

Rev 1:7
Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him--even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen.




hope this helps !!!

Help yourself brother.

You refer to what is literal as being of this world. It is not, but as it is written is only a created "image." Flesh and blood--or bone cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven. You have not reconciled all that is written.

Yes, Jesus rose from the dead and did show evidence of His having conquered death (act 1), but then went to the Father in His ascension (act 2) which was an act the flesh "cannot" do according to all that is written. Reconcile. Meanwhile, do not preach.

 

[ChristisGod]

Help yourself brother.

You refer to what is literal as being of this world. It is not, but as it is written is only a created "image." Flesh and blood--or bone cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven. You have not reconciled all that is written.

Yes, Jesus rose from the dead and did show evidence of His having conquered death (act 1), but then went to the Father in His ascension (act 2) which was an act the flesh "cannot" do according to all that is written. Reconcile. Meanwhile, do not preach.

Nope Jesus was , is and will always be a man hence He is presently called the SON OF MAN- a human , a man , a male who has a body, soul and spirit just like adam the first man hence He is called the 2nd Adam.

Lets examine some of Jesus declarations about being the son of man (adam, humanity, a human being). He used this term describing His death, burial and Resurrection from the dead. He also used this phrase about His future Kingdom, Reign and Judgment at the end of the age. This would mean that Jesus not only considered Himself to be human while He walked this earth but also in the future at His 2nd Coming in Judgment. He also describes Himself at the right hand of God as a human post Resurrection/ Ascension.


"Son of man" is a common term in the Psalms, used to accentuate the difference between God and human beings. As in Ps. viii. 4 (A. V. 5), the phrase implies "mortality," "impotence," "transientness,"as against the omnipotence and eternality of God. Yhwh looks down from His throne in heaven upon the "children," or "sons," of "man" (Ps. xi. 4, xxxiii. 13). The faithful fail among them (Ps. xii. 2 [A. V. 1]); the seed of Yhwh's enemies will not abide among the "children of men" (Ps. xxi. 10). "Children of men" is thus equivalent to "mankind" (Ps. xxxvi. 8 [A. V. 7], lxvi. 5).
"Sons of men," or "children of men," designates also the slanderers and evil-doers in contrast to the righteous, that is, Israel (Ps. lvii. 5 [A. V. 4], lviii. 2 [A. V. 1]). It occurs most frequently, however, as a synonym for "mankind," "the human race" (Ps. xc. 3, cvii. 8, cxv. 16, cxlv. 12); it has this sense also in the passage in which wisdom is said to delight with the "sons of men" (Prov. viii. 31). Job(xvi. 21) employs the expression in the passionate plea for his rights while he is contending against God and against his neighbors. But Bildad insists that the "son of man," who is a mere worm, can not be justified with God (Job xxv. 4-6). In the same spirit the prophet (Isa. li. 12) censures Israel for being afraid of "the son of man which shall be made as grass" when Yhwh is their Comforter; but in Isa. lvi. 2-3 the Sabbath is extolled as making the "son of man" (i.e., any man, regardless of birth) blessed; indeed, God has His eyes "open upon all the ways of the sons of men: to give every one according to his ways" (Jer. xxxii. 19). Jewish Encyclopedia


Daniel 7:13
Jesus speaks of Himself as the Son of man, He means thereby not merely to say that He was the Messiah, but He wishes to designate Himself as the Messiah of Daniel's prophecy, i.e., as the Son of man coming to the earth in the clouds of heaven. He thereby lays claim at once to a divine original, or a divine pre-existence, as well as to affirm true humanity of His person, and seeks to represent Himself, according to John's expression, as the Logos becoming flesh.

From the use of the expression "the Son of man" by Jesus (not only where He refers to His supernatural greatness or His divine pre-existence, but also where He places His human lowliness in contrast with His divine nature), it follows that even in those passages which treat of His coming to judgment, connected with the description, borrowed from Dan 7:13, of His coming in the clouds of heaven, He seeks to prove not so much His appearance for judgment, as rather only the divine power and glory which the Father gave Him, or to indicate from the Scriptures that the Father gave Him dominion over all people, and that He will come to reveal this dominion by the judgment of the world and the completion of His kingdom. The power to execute judgment over the living and the dead, the Father, i.e., God as the Lord of the world, has given to His Son, to Christ, because He is the Son of man (John 5:27), i.e., because He as man is at the same time of a divine nature, by virtue of which He is of one essence with the Father. This truth is manifested in the vision, Dan 7:13-14, in this, that the Ancient of days gives glory and the kingdom to Him who appears before Him in the form of a man coming in the clouds of heaven, that all people and nations might honour Him. Therewith He gave Him also implicite the power to execute judgment over all peoples; for the judgment is only a disclosure of the sovereignty given to Him. Keil and Delitzsch

next.........................

hope this helps !!!

 

[ScottA]

Nope Jesus was , is and will always be a man hence He is presently called the SON OF MAN- a human , a man , a male who has a body, soul and spirit just like adam the first man hence He is called the 2nd Adam.

Lets examine some of Jesus declarations about being the son of man (adam, humanity, a human being). He used this term describing His death, burial and Resurrection from the dead. He also used this phrase about His future Kingdom, Reign and Judgment at the end of the age. This would mean that Jesus not only considered Himself to be human while He walked this earth but also in the future at His 2nd Coming in Judgment. He also describes Himself at the right hand of God as a human post Resurrection/ Ascension.


"Son of man" is a common term in the Psalms, used to accentuate the difference between God and human beings. As in Ps. viii. 4 (A. V. 5), the phrase implies "mortality," "impotence," "transientness,"as against the omnipotence and eternality of God. Yhwh looks down from His throne in heaven upon the "children," or "sons," of "man" (Ps. xi. 4, xxxiii. 13). The faithful fail among them (Ps. xii. 2 [A. V. 1]); the seed of Yhwh's enemies will not abide among the "children of men" (Ps. xxi. 10). "Children of men" is thus equivalent to "mankind" (Ps. xxxvi. 8 [A. V. 7], lxvi. 5).
"Sons of men," or "children of men," designates also the slanderers and evil-doers in contrast to the righteous, that is, Israel (Ps. lvii. 5 [A. V. 4], lviii. 2 [A. V. 1]). It occurs most frequently, however, as a synonym for "mankind," "the human race" (Ps. xc. 3, cvii. 8, cxv. 16, cxlv. 12); it has this sense also in the passage in which wisdom is said to delight with the "sons of men" (Prov. viii. 31). Job(xvi. 21) employs the expression in the passionate plea for his rights while he is contending against God and against his neighbors. But Bildad insists that the "son of man," who is a mere worm, can not be justified with God (Job xxv. 4-6). In the same spirit the prophet (Isa. li. 12) censures Israel for being afraid of "the son of man which shall be made as grass" when Yhwh is their Comforter; but in Isa. lvi. 2-3 the Sabbath is extolled as making the "son of man" (i.e., any man, regardless of birth) blessed; indeed, God has His eyes "open upon all the ways of the sons of men: to give every one according to his ways" (Jer. xxxii. 19). Jewish Encyclopedia


Daniel 7:13
Jesus speaks of Himself as the Son of man, He means thereby not merely to say that He was the Messiah, but He wishes to designate Himself as the Messiah of Daniel's prophecy, i.e., as the Son of man coming to the earth in the clouds of heaven. He thereby lays claim at once to a divine original, or a divine pre-existence, as well as to affirm true humanity of His person, and seeks to represent Himself, according to John's expression, as the Logos becoming flesh.

From the use of the expression "the Son of man" by Jesus (not only where He refers to His supernatural greatness or His divine pre-existence, but also where He places His human lowliness in contrast with His divine nature), it follows that even in those passages which treat of His coming to judgment, connected with the description, borrowed from Dan 7:13, of His coming in the clouds of heaven, He seeks to prove not so much His appearance for judgment, as rather only the divine power and glory which the Father gave Him, or to indicate from the Scriptures that the Father gave Him dominion over all people, and that He will come to reveal this dominion by the judgment of the world and the completion of His kingdom. The power to execute judgment over the living and the dead, the Father, i.e., God as the Lord of the world, has given to His Son, to Christ, because He is the Son of man (John 5:27), i.e., because He as man is at the same time of a divine nature, by virtue of which He is of one essence with the Father. This truth is manifested in the vision, Dan 7:13-14, in this, that the Ancient of days gives glory and the kingdom to Him who appears before Him in the form of a man coming in the clouds of heaven, that all people and nations might honour Him. Therewith He gave Him also implicite the power to execute judgment over all peoples; for the judgment is only a disclosure of the sovereignty given to Him. Keil and Delitzsch

next.........................

hope this helps !!!

You obviously do not fully understand all that you have written.

It is true that Jesus was a son of man (mankind) born of a woman, which is what was required for mankind to be rescued from its captivity. But all that was written of Him (those things which you have listed), He accomplished, saying, "It is finished." But there are two parts, which He also explained was that "other fold" of the gentiles which He "must also bring"-- and this, is the part where most (including yourself) get lost.

The confusion is in not understanding that Jesus accomplished ("finished") everything He came for regarding the past, after the fact; but also "finished" everything regarding the future, before the fact. This, He was able to do not only as a "son of man", but as the Son of God", which He attained before His crucifixion and ascension, as "all power over heaven and earth."

Thus, as a man Jesus died fulfilling on earth all the requirements of the son of man; but as God, fulfilled what only God could fulfill...among which was attaining spirit-only belonging (inheritance) and entrance into the kingdom of heaven--which "flesh and blood" (or bone) "cannot inherit." All of which is "not by observation"-- which is the part you have not reconciled (apparently), thereby expecting a worldly-literal fulfillment which is not biblical, but rather the hope of the flesh which "profits nothing", nor is it life, but dies and "returns to the dust from which it came" only to be "dissolved with fervent heat and with fire."

Thus, by hoping for and expecting the flesh to be glorified-- you have not laid it down, but attempt to save it. For which He said: "whoever desires to save his life will lose it."

 

[ChristisGod]

You obviously do not fully understand all that you have written.

It is true that Jesus was a son of man (mankind) born of a woman, which is what was required for mankind to be rescued from its captivity. But all that was written of Him (those things which you have listed), He accomplished, saying, "It is finished." But there are two parts, which He also explained was that "other fold" of the gentiles which He "must also bring"-- and this, is the part where most (including yourself) get lost.

The confusion is in not understanding that Jesus accomplished ("finished") everything He came for regarding the past, after the fact; but also "finished" everything regarding the future, before the fact. This, He was able to do not only as a "son of man", but as the Son of God", which He attained before His crucifixion and ascension, as "all power over heaven and earth."

Thus, as a man Jesus died fulfilling on earth all the requirements of the son of man; but as God, fulfilled what only God could fulfill...among which was attaining spirit-only belonging (inheritance) and entrance into the kingdom of heaven--which "flesh and blood" (or bone) "cannot inherit." All of which is "not by observation"-- which is the part you have not reconciled (apparently), thereby expecting a worldly-literal fulfillment which is not biblical, but rather the hope of the flesh which "profits nothing", nor is it life, but dies and "returns to the dust from which it came" only to be "dissolved with fervent heat and with fire."

Thus, by hoping for and expecting the flesh to be glorified-- you have not laid it down, but attempt to save it. For which He said: "whoever desires to save his life will lose it."

You have denied the very heart of the gospel - Jesus Resurrection. And the hope of all believers our resurrection.

 

[ScottA]

You have denied the very heart of the gospel - Jesus Resurrection. And the hope of all believers our resurrection.

No, I have not denied "Jesus Resurrection"--but in fact have stated it...and you deny that I have. Your actions betray you. Take heed.

 

[ChristisGod]

No, I have not denied "Jesus Resurrection"--but in fact have stated it...and you deny that I have. Your actions betray you. Take heed.

Your words betray scripture since Jesus is still a man having a human body with the scars in His side , hands and feet to prove it. You believe just like the JWs do about His resurrection. They also deny it.

Next

 

[ScottA]

Your words betray scripture since Jesus is still a man having a human body with the scars in His side , hands and feet to prove it. You believe just like the JWs do about His resurrection. They also deny it.

Next

No, but I do betray your love of the flesh and the teachings of men that you have believed, which do indeed betray the scriptures, just as it was foretold to occur:

2 Peter 2:1-3​

But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.​

2 Thessalonians 2:8-12​

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.​

​

You have not only believed that "lie" but have quoted and preach it. For which it is also written:

Revelation 18:4​

And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.​

 

[ChristisGod]

No, but I do betray your love of the flesh and the teachings of men that you have believed, which do indeed betray the scriptures, just as it was foretold to occur:

2 Peter 2:1-3​

But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.​

2 Thessalonians 2:8-12​

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.​

​

You have not only believed that "lie" but have quoted and preach it. For which it is also written:

Revelation 18:4​

And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.​

I see nothing but ad hominems avoiding the resurrection

 

[ScottA]

I see nothing but ad hominems avoiding the resurrection

This is because you have not correctly understood the very definition of what "resurrection" means.

How is it that you do not know that to be raised up to be in the presence of God who is spirit, and leaving the bonds of this created world, is not only spiritual as He is? Are you so blinded by the lusts of the flesh that you even deny what is written of the flesh, that it returns to the dust and is destroyed? Do you honestly believe that the end of God's plan is to permanently condemn Christ and those who are His to something less than He who Himself is "perfect" and only "spirit?" Is that what you think being raised up is--a half-step--not as sons, but stepsons?

To think or believe thusly, is to return to the beggarly elements--to return to Egypt. Ironically, it is you rather (by definition) who is "avoiding the resurrection."

 

[ChristisGod]

This is because you have not correctly understood the very definition of what "resurrection" means.

How is it that you do not know that to be raised up to be in the presence of God who is spirit, and leaving the bonds of this created world, is not only spiritual as He is? Are you so blinded by the lusts of the flesh that you even deny what is written of the flesh, that it returns to the dust and is destroyed? Do you honestly believe that the end of God's plan is to permanently condemn Christ and those who are His to something less than He who Himself is "perfect" and only "spirit?" Is that what you think being raised up is--a half-step--not as sons, but stepsons?

To think or believe thusly, is to return to the beggarly elements--to return to Egypt. Ironically, it is you rather (by definition) who is "avoiding the resurrection."

Yes you deny the resurrection which is the heart of the gospel

 

[ChristisGod]

It is written "that no flesh should glory in His presence."

Without the bodily resurrection which was permanent one has no Savior and you are still dead in your sins according to the Apostle Paul.
1 Corinthians 15:17

Many deny Jesus was Resurrected and Ascended into heaven bodily( a human body with real flesh and bones) and are still dead in their sins even though they might claim to be a christian. That is an oxymoron.

Luke 24:37-43
37 But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit. 38 And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." 40 And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. 41 While they still could not believe it because of their joy and amazement, He said to them, "Have you anything here to eat?" 42 They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish; 43 and He took it and ate it before them.

John 20:24-25
24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples were saying to him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them, "Unless I see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe."

John 20:27-28
27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe." 28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

There is one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. (1Timothy 2:5) post ascension.
Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever.(Hebrews 13:5) Changeless, Immutable. Jesus was a man when He walked this earth, when He Ascended and when He will return again at His 2nd Coming.

1 Corinthians 15:1-8
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also.

1 Corinthians 15:14-18
14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. 15 Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; 17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.

2 Corinthians 5:1-10
For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.6 So we are always confident, even though we know that as long as we live in these bodies we are not at home with the Lord. 7 For we live by believing and not by seeing. 8 Yes, we are fully confident, and we would rather be away from these earthly bodies, for then we will be at home with the Lord. 9 So whether we are here in this body or away from this body, our goal is to please him.

In Heaven.... Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Look up the meaning of the word soma below, it always means a physical body in relation to anthropos(man).

His Body.....Philippians 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Matthew 27:52-53
52 The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

Philippians 3:20-21
And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

1 Corinthians 15:44-45
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15 that if Christ be not risen your faith is in vain and you are still dead in your sins- an unbeliever who is lost. Those who deny the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus such as the JW's who teach that Jesus is now a spirit based being fit into this camp. They deny the resurrection.

If we look at what Paul is saying in this passage, it is that corruptible flesh and blood shall not enter the kingdom. Paul says corruptible does not inherit the incorruptible. Paul is not saying the resurrection body will not have flesh but what he declares is that the resurrected body will not have perishable flesh. Remember in Luke Jesus said see here My hands and feet, touch Me a spirit/ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have. Peter, Paul and John all agree that Jesus still had flesh well after His ascension. 1 John being the last of the books of the three Apostles declared that Jesus having come in the flesh and those who deny this are the spirit of antichrist. John makes it clear that the Incarnation was permanent. Jesus is forever both God and man. This is what Paul teaches in the whole 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians. The glorious physical bodies that we will have in the resurrection. We will have incorruptible bodies just as Jesus now has in heaven.


hope this helps !!!

 

[ScottA]

Without the bodily resurrection which was permanent one has no Savior and you are still dead in your sins according to the Apostle Paul.
1 Corinthians 15:17

Many deny Jesus was Resurrected and Ascended into heaven bodily( a human body with real flesh and bones) and are still dead in their sins even though they might claim to be a christian. That is an oxymoron.

Luke 24:37-43
37 But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit. 38 And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." 40 And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. 41 While they still could not believe it because of their joy and amazement, He said to them, "Have you anything here to eat?" 42 They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish; 43 and He took it and ate it before them.

John 20:24-25
24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples were saying to him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them, "Unless I see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe."

John 20:27-28
27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe." 28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

There is one Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. (1Timothy 2:5) post ascension.
Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever.(Hebrews 13:5) Changeless, Immutable. Jesus was a man when He walked this earth, when He Ascended and when He will return again at His 2nd Coming.

1 Corinthians 15:1-8
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also.

1 Corinthians 15:14-18
14 and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. 15 Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; 17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.

2 Corinthians 5:1-10
For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.6 So we are always confident, even though we know that as long as we live in these bodies we are not at home with the Lord. 7 For we live by believing and not by seeing. 8 Yes, we are fully confident, and we would rather be away from these earthly bodies, for then we will be at home with the Lord. 9 So whether we are here in this body or away from this body, our goal is to please him.

In Heaven.... Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken [this is] the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

8:2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Look up the meaning of the word soma below, it always means a physical body in relation to anthropos(man).

His Body.....Philippians 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Matthew 27:52-53
52 The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

Philippians 3:20-21
And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

1 Corinthians 15:44-45
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15 that if Christ be not risen your faith is in vain and you are still dead in your sins- an unbeliever who is lost. Those who deny the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus such as the JW's who teach that Jesus is now a spirit based being fit into this camp. They deny the resurrection.

If we look at what Paul is saying in this passage, it is that corruptible flesh and blood shall not enter the kingdom. Paul says corruptible does not inherit the incorruptible. Paul is not saying the resurrection body will not have flesh but what he declares is that the resurrected body will not have perishable flesh. Remember in Luke Jesus said see here My hands and feet, touch Me a spirit/ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have. Peter, Paul and John all agree that Jesus still had flesh well after His ascension. 1 John being the last of the books of the three Apostles declared that Jesus having come in the flesh and those who deny this are the spirit of antichrist. John makes it clear that the Incarnation was permanent. Jesus is forever both God and man. This is what Paul teaches in the whole 15th chapter of 1 Corinthians. The glorious physical bodies that we will have in the resurrection. We will have incorruptible bodies just as Jesus now has in heaven.


hope this helps !!!

You are only repeating your out of context argument and trying to support it all with misunderstanding, and this you do because you have not yet seen Jesus "as He is:"

1 John 3:2​

Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.​

Notice that it does not say, We shall see Him as He was (as you say).