Parable of the Ten Virgins

[Waiting on him]

"For our lamps are gone out" suggests they had oil initially, yes?
Technically, ὅτι αἱ λαμπάδες ἡμῶν σβέννυνται = "for our lamps are going out."

What’s the chamber in the parable

 

[marks]

( of note, even the five wise were not 'the Bride' ..or maybe they are ...all types break down somewhere ...there is only One perfect type)

Hi Helen,

I think you've hit on a great point here.

When we start trying to assign meanings and draw doctrine from every last detail in a parable we can end up in the weeds!

Easiest example is the parable of the unjust judge, who represents God in the story, but God certainly is not unjust.

I feel that a correct understanding of a parable will first and formost take into account what a parable is . . . a story of something familiar to teach a truth.

Jesus told us what that truth was, after giving the parable. "Watch therefore".

Not as exciting as some would like!

The oil, for instance, is very often tied to the Holy Spirit, but for one glaring problem . . . you cannot buy the Holy Spirit! But when your lamps - actual lamps - burn low, you need to go to those that sell the oil.

You need to do that first, not when the Master is opening the doors.

It's too late when the Master comes to get ready if you aren't. So be watching.

The five wise are often associated with Faithful Christianity, yet ALL slumbered and slept. Yet some of the sleeping Were Ready.

I think if we are going to assign meanings to all the elements of a parable, that they should at least be consistent within the story.

And of course, I'm always going on about Biblical authority . . . how can we know for certain that our word associations are the right ones?

In the parable of the wheat and the tares, Jesus explained what everything meant. Same with the parable of the Sower. When the disciples asked Jesus to expain the Sower, Jesus answered, "Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?" Is the key to understanding the parables in the parable of the Sower, which was explained by Jesus?

What do we learn when we look at this parable in light of the parable of the Sower?

Where does it leave us if we only interpret symbols according as the Bible gives the meaning? Can we back up our interpretations with Scripture?

Much love!

 

[Helen]

"For our lamps are gone out" suggests they had oil initially, yes?
Technically, ὅτι αἱ λαμπάδες ἡμῶν σβέννυνται = "for our lamps are going out."

Agree... well said.
Another thing that we do agree upon..

 

[Waiting on him]

The oil, for instance, is very often tied to the Holy Spirit, but for one glaring problem . . . you cannot buy the Holy Spirit! But when your lamps - actual lamps - burn low, you need to go to those that sell the oil.

It’s for sale today in some religious establishments, just as it was in the Levitical system of Jesus’s time.

 

[Waiting on him]

Psalm 19:5 KJV
[5] Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.


Tecarta Bible

 

[Helen]

Look for the spiritual behind the material. Neither grammar nor language is critical since a parable is just that -- a parable, an illustration of spiritual verities. Interpret that in view of the many who say "I believe in Jesus, but I cannot be sure if I will be in Heaven or at the Rapture". There are millions of *Christians* with no assurance of salvation. Their lamps were going out or gone out (it matters not) because there was no inward reality and total assurance of salvation.

Sorry bro..can't agree at all with you here.
They were VIRGIN = white robes and all that...they weren't 'second class' half christians that were not quite christians.

That is a reach.

 

[Waiting on him]

Joel 2:16-19 KJV
[16] Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet. [17] Let the priests, the ministers of the Lord, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O Lord, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God? [18] Then will the Lord be jealous for his land, and pity his people. [19] Yea, the Lord will answer and say unto his people, Behold, I will send you corn, and wine, and oil, and ye shall be satisfied therewith: and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen:

He’s speaking to Jews, for anyone who can receive it
Tecarta Bible

 

[Hidden In Him]

Neither grammar nor language is critical

Disagree with you strongly here. I think you are opening up the door for retranslating the word into whatever you want it to say, rather than taking it for what it actually does say in the original. It's cheating what the word of God actually says to fit your theology, rather than letting what it says form it.

Interpret that in view of the many who say "I believe in Jesus, but I cannot be sure if I will be in Heaven or at the Rapture". There are millions of *Christians* with no assurance of salvation.

To interpret the parable in light of this would be to reinterpret the parable as discussing the need for believers to have assurance of salvation. I don't believe it does.

 

[Waiting on him]

Disagree with you strongly here. I think you are opening up the door for retranslating the word into whatever you want it to say, rather than taking it for what it actually does say in the original. It's cheating what the word of God actually says to fit your theology, rather than letting what it says form it.


To interpret the parable in light of this would be to reinterpret the parable as discussing the need for believers to have assurance of salvation. I don't believe it does.

The only assurance you’ll receive is Christ in you
THE BRIDEGROOM!

 

[Helen]

And of course, I'm always going on about Biblical authority . . . how can we know for certain that our word associations are the right ones?

In the parable of the wheat and the tares, Jesus explained what everything meant. Same with the parable of the Sower. When the disciples asked Jesus to expain the Sower, Jesus answered, "Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?" Is the key to understanding the parables in the parable of the Sower, which was explained by Jesus?

What do we learn when we look at this parable in light of the parable of the Sower?

Where does it leave us if we only interpret symbols according as the Bible gives the meaning? Can we back up our interpretations with Scripture?

Much love!

Mark, I think in all these discussions the joy of 'digging' into the word is blown away when we get too serious.
I believe we keep an open heart and allow God's Spirit to open our eyes.
He's faithful to do so.
This is just a light hearted discussion to hear how we each interpret the parable and why.

But, we do always get those who have already made up their minds as to what it means to them and are unmovable , which kind of ruins the point of an open discussion.

Agree , all parables are linked to The Sower , so Jesus said.

Matt 13
"Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
.... Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand."

As I have said before...I hold these kind of thing lightly and wait and wait to see if the Lord shows me something new that I haven't yet seen.

I've found that when God is speaking it's like the "lights come on" and we know His voice of revelation.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Joel 2:16-19 KJV
[16] Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet. [17] Let the priests, the ministers of the Lord, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O Lord, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God? [18] Then will the Lord be jealous for his land, and pity his people. [19] Yea, the Lord will answer and say unto his people, Behold, I will send you corn, and wine, and oil, and ye shall be satisfied therewith: and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen:

He’s speaking to Jews, for anyone who can receive it
Tecarta Bible

I've heard this argument regarding the Book of Joel before, Waiting; that it was written only in reference to the Jews. But Joel 2:28 starts with "And it shall come to pass afterward..." and then ends with, "and I will show wonders in the heavens and on earth; blood and fire and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the great and terrible Day of the Lord comes." It THEN follows immediately with, "For behold, in those days, and at that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem..." (Joel 3:1).

Do you believe this is a reference to the return of Israel to their land in 1948? If so, this places the entirety of Joel 2:28 through Joel 3:1 in the time period stretching from 1948 until the time of the Battle of Armageddon (Joel 3:2). That means 2:28-31 will be fulfilled during this time as well, which would mean the church will still be here, and fulfilling these same prophecies just as they were doing during New Testament times.

 

[Hidden In Him]

The only assurance you’ll receive is Christ in you
THE BRIDEGROOM!

And?

 

[marks]

Mark, I think in all these discussions the joy of 'digging' into the word is blown away when we get too serious.
I believe we keep an open heart and allow God's Spirit to open our eyes.
He's faithful to do so.
This is just a light hearted discussion to hear how we each interpret the parable and why.

But, we do always get those who have already made up their minds as to what it means to them and are unmovable , which kind of ruins the point of an open discussion.

Agree , all parables are linked to The Sower , so Jesus said.

Matt 13
"Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
.... Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand."

As I have said before...I hold these kind of thing lightly and wait and wait to see if the Lord shows me something new that I haven't yet seen.

I've found that when God is speaking it's like the "lights come on" and we know His voice of revelation.

That's cool! I can leave you to the light discussion.

I see people building doctrines out of "word association hermaneutics", if you will, coming up with highly evolved theories about what is happening, and what will happen.

I find this parable in particular to be a lightening rod for poor interpretation.

OK. No more heavy!

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

When we start trying to assign meanings and draw doctrine from every last detail in a parable we can end up in the weeds!

Boy, do I disagree with this, marks. Doing anything else condones loose interpretation. Once you open that door, absolutely anything goes and we can do with the parables anything we wish, regardless of historical context, grammatical context, theological context, logic, syntax, you name it.

Ick! This is again the position of those who don't want to interpret the word for what it actually says because it doesn't fit their theology. Better to let the word of God form one's theology than be lazy and loose interpreting it merely to fit one's own preconceived notions.

 

[marks]

Mark, I think in all these discussions the joy of 'digging' into the word is blown away when we get too serious.

Actually, for me, that kind of serious is how I find the real jewels. I mean, just anyone can look at a verse and say, I think this means that and that means this, but what does that do for us?

If it's all word association and morphing something to fit my idea of what the church looks like, or what the end times looks like, what good is it? What have we gained?

Much love!

 

[Helen]

That's cool! I can leave you to the light discussion.

I see people building doctrines out of "word association hermaneutics", if you will, coming up with highly evolved theories about what is happening, and what will happen.

I find this parable in particular to be a lightening rod for poor interpretation.

OK. No more heavy!

Much love!

Don't leave this discussion...and don't forget , my post that you are responding to here is just MY opinion....who am I ? LOL

My belief is that God opens to us what He wants to get through to us...and unless He is doing that I don't sweat-it. I just trust He is leading me about the important things.
The important thing in this parable is- 'be prepared' , stay awake, and listen for His voice .....the rest, is just interesting and it's nice to think outside the box...some people are comfortable in their little neat boxes...it makes them feel comfortable and secure.

...blessings...H

 

[marks]

and we can do with the parables anything we wish, regardless of historical context, grammatical context, theological context, logic, syntax, you name it.

Is this what you think I'm talking about??

 

[Enoch111]

Sorry bro..can't agree at all with you here. They were VIRGIN = white robes and all that...they weren't 'second class' half christians that were not quite christians.

And yet they were shut out from the presence of the Bridegroom. No genuine Christian will experience that. As I said a parable is parable and if you stretch it too far you end up with a parabola.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Is this what you think I'm talking about??

"Neither grammar nor language is critical..."

What were you talking about?

 

[Hidden In Him]

And yet they were shut out from the presence of the Bridegroom. No genuine Christian will experience that. As I said a parable is parable and if you stretch it too far you end up with a parabola.

In other words, "We can pick and choose whatever parts of the parables of the Lord Jesus Christ we want to keep, and discard whatever parts present problems to our theology," LoL.