Parable of the Ten Virgins

[Mayflower]

True believers do not face Hell.

Havent read all the commentary on here, but can weeping and gnashing teeth mean something else then Hell. Because the foolish virgins seem like genuine believers who need to gain wisdom.

 

[Mayflower]

Sorry, but this interpretation is completely inconsistent with the context as well as the actual parable of the Ten Virgins.

Ten Virgins = the sum total of Christendom (all who call themselves Christians).

Five Wise Virgins = those who truly believed and received the Holy Spirit (oil being a metaphor for the Spirit)

Five Foolish Virgins = those who thought they were Christians but did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit. They may have been good church members, even baptized and tithing, but without the Spirit.

The Bridegroom = Christ Himself

Being Shut Out = Not being allowed into the Kingdom of God.

Jesus said that one must be born again in order to (1) enter and (2) see the Kingdom of God. Professing Christians who have not been born again are shut out of that Kingdom.

Okay I just saw your thoughts. Im going to reserve commenting until I catch up. I might gain some insight. :)

 

[Waiting on him]

Okay I just saw your thoughts. Im going to reserve commenting until I catch up. I might gain some insight. :)

Luke 19:43-45 KJV
[43] For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, [44] And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation. [45] And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought;


Tecarta Bible

 

[Waiting on him]

Okay I just saw your thoughts. Im going to reserve commenting until I catch up. I might gain some insight. :)

Had you been an unbelieving Jew in 70 ad your teeth most likely would have been gnashing, most likely a good bit of wailing also

 

[Mayflower]

I am all caught up! Great discussion

n2thelight had some very good insight I believe is true of this parable.

 

[Waiting on him]

I am all caught up! Great discussion

n2thelight had some very good insight I believe is true of this parable.

Maybe if I was a virgin I could agree with possibly one thing he posted?

 

[Hidden In Him]

I can see this being an allusion to being naturally asleep and awake...but I think that the context in 1 Thessalonians 5:6 is spiritually soft vs. vigilant as I read in one commentary. I think this, because the passage is talking about spiritual slumber vs. those awake.

About 1 Thessalonians 5:10 referring to spiritual slumber (I think this is the verse you were talking about), it raises some contradictions with the rest of the passage if taken this way. Those who sleep are connected with those who give themselves to drunkenness during "the night." V.6 is an exhortation not to sleep, nor give oneself to drunkenness as those in the world do, but to put on the breastplate of righteousness (v.8) and be fully prepared for Christ's return when the world is sleeping and drinking, and "in the dark" spiritually about what is coming. So those "sleeping and drinking" here would be those giving themselves to the sinful lifestyle of the night; spiritually it represents being intoxicated and delirious with the entertainments of the world and thus not aware of the destruction (v.3) that is coming. as Christians will be. But there is a veiled parallel reference to those who actually live that lifestyle here, hence these would not be saved people : )

1Now about the times and seasons, brothers, we do not need to write to you. 2For you are fully aware that the Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, “Peace and security,” destruction will come upon them suddenly, like labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.4But you, brothers, are not in the darkness so that this day should overtake you like a thief. 5For you are all sons of the light and sons of the day; we do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6So then, let us not sleep as the others do, but let us remain awake and sober. 7For those who sleep, sleep at night; and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. 8But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and the helmet of our hope of salvation.9For God has not appointed us to suffer wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with Him. 11Therefore encourage and build one another up, just as you are already doing.

My question about this parable still is if the foolish virgins, are they true believers weeping and gnashing teeth because they go to Hell, or weeping and gnashing teeth, because they missed out on the Rapture.

Weeping and gnashing of teeth is consistently used of Hell so far as I have ever seen, so the context suggests both missing the rapture and ending up in Hell.

Believers are supposed to be in the day, but are there genuine believers in the dark. If they came to the wedding feast to try entering, maybe they ended up getting some oil...

No actually. The distinction he makes through the whole passage is that believers will know it is coming and thus not be in the dark about it, whereas unbelievers will not know what is coming, and thus not prepare themselves properly to receive deliverance (i.e. also translated "salvation") when Christ returns.

The passage has a finality to it. Believers will receive deliverance and unbelievers will suffer destruction.

 

[Waiting on him]

John 12:40 KJV
[40] He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
Outer darkness.

Tecarta Bible

 

[Waiting on him]

Romans 11:7-8 KJV
[7] What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded [8] (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

Outer darkness
Tecarta Bible

 

[Waiting on him]

Proverbs 20:20 KJV
[20] Whoso curseth his father or his mother, his lamp shall be put out in obscure darkness.

Outer darkness.
Tecarta Bible

 

[Waiting on him]

Acts 7:54 KJV
[54] When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

Outer darkness. Gnashing......
Tecarta Bible

 

[Waiting on him]

Psalm 139:12 KJV
[12] Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.

Good news!!

Tecarta Bible

 

[Hidden In Him]

My question about this parable still is if the foolish virgins, are they true believers weeping and gnashing teeth because they go to Hell, or weeping and gnashing teeth, because they missed out on the Rapture.

Because believers are supposed to be in the day, but are there genuine believers in the dark. If they came to the wedding feast to try entering, maybe they ended up getting some oil...

Forgot to mention something here, Mayflower. Keep in mind that in the interpretation I gave, these are not just ordinary believers. The analogy Jesus used applied specifically to those who will be leaders in the church. He was repeating what He said to the disciples before beginning the parable when He said:

46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he comes shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you that he will set him over all that he has.
48 But if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord tarries; 49 and shall begin to beat his fellow-servants, and shall eat and drink with the drunken; 50 the lord of that servant shall come in a day he does not expect, and in an hour when he does not know, 51 and shall cut him asunder and appoint his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.

This parable (just like the next one as well), applies especially to the leadership of the church. They will bear a grave responsibility before the Lord. They will be charged with not only spiritually feeding His household, but lighting the way for the spiritual Bride of Christ to be fully prepared to meet her Groom at the midnight hour. Unlike the ordinary believer, they will be charged with the responsibility of shining true spiritual light for the bride of Christ, and as the scripture says, "to whom much is given, much will be expected."

 

[Giuliano]

@amadeus, @Helen, @Triumph1300, @Josho, @Berserk, @lforrest, @Angelina.
Posted another thread directly related to this one that you might enjoy reading:
Did We Quench The Holy Spirit?

@n2thelight, @Giuliano:
My apologies on not responding to each of your posts. I either didn't get the alert or it got passed me somehow.
Will try to respond later, Lord willing.

Please don't feel pressured to answer point by point or at all unless you feel like it. I am curious though if you see a connection between this parable the verse in Daniel I cited since Daniel also used the word "wise."

Daniel 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

 

[Hidden In Him]

The seven candlesticks represent God's elect, the seven thousand, and all the ethnos that are with them.

Hello, n2theLight.

Out of curiosity, where is this coming from? Is there a verse of scripture you are basing the seven thousand on?

The oil in the lamps are the knowledge in your mind that seals your mind that you will not be taken by the wrong husband, the Antichrist, Satan. The oil is the entire world of God, enough to keep your lamp lit through the entire tribulation of deception of the Antichrist. All of the knowledge from God's word, of the signs of the times, and the details of His coming is the oil that you need for your lamp. But don't be foolish, and deceived; wait for the true bridegroom.

You are placing heavy emphasis in your interpretation on believers choosing Christ over the Antichrist. My personal opinion here is that this is reading a little more into the text than is actually there. Certainly the Antichrist will play his role in the times leading up to the time of Christ's return, but I don't see him being specifically referenced in this parable.

These five foolish virgins, or Christians must then go and buy strange fire, or the doctrines of men

Bit of a jump. The foolish are told by the wise to purchase more oil - the same oil that all of them had from the start - from those who sell. In context, this oil they are now told to buy must be from God, no matter how you define it.

It better be clear, for the time is getting close. The eleventh hour started in May 15, 1948, and Jesus told us in Matthew 24:33, 34; "So likewise ye when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the door." [33] "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." That generation that saw the planting of the fig tree, which is the establishment of the Jewish state of Israel in Palestine, is forty eight years are becoming senior citizens today.

Wouldn't go there if I were you, n2. There are a lot of people who have played with dates based on verses like this and ended up deceiving people. The word "generation" there can just as easily be translated as "age," making Jesus' statement, "This age shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled." This makes all the arguments about what a "generation" equates to here sort of dissipate into irrelevance and insignificance.

Overall there are some interesting elements (it tells a good narrative), but I just think you're being a little too loose and fast with the text.

God bless

 

[Hidden In Him]

Please don't feel pressured to answer point by point or at all unless you feel like it. I am curious though if you see a connection between this parable the verse in Daniel I cited since Daniel also used the word "wise."

Daniel 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Powerful verse in this context! Once again we have the leadership - those who turn many to righteousness - being referred to here...

Very interesting in light of the parable... brings this verse "to light" in a brand new way (pun not deliberately intended, LoL.) :)

 

[Giuliano]

Powerful verse in this context! Once again we have the leadership - those who turn many to righteousness - being referred to here...

Very interesting in light of the parable... brings this verse "to light" in a brand new way (pun not deliberately intended, LoL.) :)

I had not connected those two passages before I wrote my post. When I saw the word "wise" in the passage from Daniel, it really jumped out at me.

 

[Mayflower]

About 1 Thessalonians 5:10 referring to spiritual slumber (I think this is the verse you were talking about), it raises some contradictions with the rest of the passage if taken this way. Those who sleep are connected with those who give themselves to drunkenness during "the night." V.6 is an exhortation not to sleep, nor give oneself to drunkenness as those in the world do, but to put on the breastplate of righteousness (v.8) and be fully prepared for Christ's return when the world is sleeping and drinking, and "in the dark" spiritually about what is coming. So those "sleeping and drinking" here would be those giving themselves to the sinful lifestyle of the night; spiritually it represents being intoxicated and delirious with the entertainments of the world and thus not aware of the destruction (v.3) that is coming. as Christians will be. But there is a veiled parallel reference to those who actually live that lifestyle here, hence these would not be saved people : )

1Now about the times and seasons, brothers, we do not need to write to you. 2For you are fully aware that the Day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3While people are saying, “Peace and security,” destruction will come upon them suddenly, like labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.4But you, brothers, are not in the darkness so that this day should overtake you like a thief. 5For you are all sons of the light and sons of the day; we do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6So then, let us not sleep as the others do, but let us remain awake and sober. 7For those who sleep, sleep at night; and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. 8But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and the helmet of our hope of salvation.9For God has not appointed us to suffer wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. 10He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with Him. 11Therefore encourage and build one another up, just as you are already doing.


Weeping and gnashing of teeth is consistently used of Hell so far as I have ever seen, so the context suggests both missing the rapture and ending up in Hell.


No actually. The distinction he makes through the whole passage is that believers will know it is coming and thus not be in the dark about it, whereas unbelievers will not know what is coming, and thus not prepare themselves properly to receive deliverance (i.e. also translated "salvation") when Christ returns.

The passage has a finality to it. Believers will receive deliverance and unbelievers will suffer destruction.

Thanks for clarifying. I can see your points well and agree. Growing up with a "once saved always saved" theology, I think I still try to justify it. Very hard to think of how many people will be choosing Hell, especially among those who do believe, but are not genuine believers.

 

[Mayflower]

Forgot to mention something here, Mayflower. Keep in mind that in the interpretation I gave, these are not just ordinary believers. The analogy Jesus used applied specifically to those who will be leaders in the church. He was repeating what He said to the disciples before beginning the parable when He said:

46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he comes shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you that he will set him over all that he has.
48 But if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord tarries; 49 and shall begin to beat his fellow-servants, and shall eat and drink with the drunken; 50 the lord of that servant shall come in a day he does not expect, and in an hour when he does not know, 51 and shall cut him asunder and appoint his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.

This parable (just like the next one as well), applies especially to the leadership of the church. They will bear a grave responsibility before the Lord. They will be charged with not only spiritually feeding His household, but lighting the way for the spiritual Bride of Christ to be fully prepared to meet her Groom at the midnight hour. Unlike the ordinary believer, they will be charged with the responsibility of shining true spiritual light for the bride of Christ, and as the scripture says, "to whom much is given, much will be expected."

In that context, I hope Children's Ministry isnt way too far up!!!! But I do believe God has put this passage on my heart strongly for the past year. As well as purity of heart. Lord, keep me from sinning!!! If I'm going to fail, don't put me there, please. You know. Close the door. But if not, send me...

 

[Hidden In Him]

In that context, I hope Children's Ministry isnt way too far up!!!! But I do believe God has put this passage on my heart strongly for the past year. As well as purity of heart. Lord, keep me from sinning!!! If I'm going to fail, don't put me there, please. You know. Close the door. But if not, send me...

LoL! I wouldn't equate it to the level of being an apostle, if that's what you were concerned about : ) But in all seriousness, I do see it as a wonderful responsibility to teach youth, and train them for potentially devoting their lives to serving God.

What's that saying about the woman who only reached one soul for Christ, but that soul happened to be Billy Graham. :)