Paralambanetai

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Timtofly

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As scripture clearly teaches below in 1 Corinthinas 15:23-24 , when Jesus Christ returns then comes (The End)

Many disregard (Then Cometh The End) as they desire to see a mortal Millennial Kingdom on earth, after the coming of Jesus Christ

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, not a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as many falsely claim
No, you teach it wrong. Between the Second Coming and the end is the 1,000 years. There have been 1991 years between the Cross and the Second Coming. There will be 1,000 between the Second Coming and the end. Paul does not give us any time, but there are 3 different points, not just 2. The Cross, the Second Coming, and the end. You cannot combine the last 2 points into one single point. If you do that you may as well say there is just one point: the Cross, the Second Coming, and the end all happened on the same day.

You are the one forgetting the end. You do not separate it from the other two points.
 

ewq1938

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Uh…yes, I really AM coming back to paralambano. I do now understand what the suffix “etai” means. But I STILL don’t understand how they take this definition and come up with apostasy.


Exactly. That sounds far more like the concept of being gathered to Christ. The one taken and one left happens the day Christ returns so naturally the taking is taking people up to the clouds in the rapture and the left (means to be rejected and left to die in the Greek) is clearly those left to face the wrath of God.
 

ewq1938

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Given the comparison to the Flood "taking away" (different word "airos") everybody in the immediate context, being "taken" might not be a good thing.


That's a completely different Greek word not even in any of the one taken verses.
 
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ewq1938

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Uh…yes, I really AM coming back to paralambano. I do now understand what the suffix “etai” means. But I STILL don’t understand how they take this definition and come up with apostasy.

Definition
  1. to take to, to take with one's self, to join to one's self
    1. an associate, a companion
    2. metaph.
      1. to accept or acknowledge one to be such as he professes to be
      2. not to reject, not to withhold obedience
  2. to receive something transmitted
    1. an office to be discharged
    2. to receive with the mind
      1. by oral transmission: of the authors from whom the tradition proceeds
      2. by the narrating to others, by instruction of teachers (used of disciples)


taken
3880

3880 paralambano {par-al-am-ban'-o}

from 3844 and 2983; TDNT - 4:11,495; v

AV - take 30, receive 15, take unto 2, take up 2, take away 1; 50

1) to take to, to take with one's self, to join to one's self
1a) an associate, a companion
1b) metaph.
1b1) to accept or acknowledge one to be such as he professes to be
1b2) not to reject, not to withhold obedience
2) to receive something transmitted
2a) an office to be discharged
2b) to receive with the mind
2b1) by oral transmission: of the authors from whom the
tradition proceeds
2b2) by the narrating to others, by instruction of teachers
(used of disciples)

"to take with one's self"
"to join to one's self"
"an associate"
"a companion"
"not to reject"

Luk 18:31 Then he took (paralambano) unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.


Same word and meaning here.


Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you (paralambano) unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


This is the rapture and guess what? The same exact word and meaning is here too. The one taken is a reference to the rapture.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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taken
3880

3880 paralambano {par-al-am-ban'-o}

from 3844 and 2983; TDNT - 4:11,495; v

AV - take 30, receive 15, take unto 2, take up 2, take away 1; 50

1) to take to, to take with one's self, to join to one's self
1a) an associate, a companion
1b) metaph.
1b1) to accept or acknowledge one to be such as he professes to be
1b2) not to reject, not to withhold obedience
2) to receive something transmitted
2a) an office to be discharged
2b) to receive with the mind
2b1) by oral transmission: of the authors from whom the
tradition proceeds
2b2) by the narrating to others, by instruction of teachers
(used of disciples)

"to take with one's self"
"to join to one's self"
"an associate"
"a companion"
"not to reject"

Luk 18:31 Then he took (paralambano) unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.


Same word and meaning here.


Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you (paralambano) unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


This is the rapture and guess what? The same exact word and meaning is here too. The one taken is a reference to the rapture.
taken
3880

3880 paralambano {par-al-am-ban'-o}

from 3844 and 2983; TDNT - 4:11,495; v

AV - take 30, receive 15, take unto 2, take up 2, take away 1; 50

1) to take to, to take with one's self, to join to one's self
1a) an associate, a companion
1b) metaph.
1b1) to accept or acknowledge one to be such as he professes to be
1b2) not to reject, not to withhold obedience
2) to receive something transmitted
2a) an office to be discharged
2b) to receive with the mind
2b1) by oral transmission: of the authors from whom the
tradition proceeds
2b2) by the narrating to others, by instruction of teachers
(used of disciples)

"to take with one's self"
"to join to one's self"
"an associate"
"a companion"
"not to reject"

Luk 18:31 Then he took (paralambano) unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.


Same word and meaning here.


Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you (paralambano) unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


This is the rapture and guess what? The same exact word and meaning is here too. The one taken is a reference to the rapture.

Are you sure it’s paralambano used in those other two places?
 

Timtofly

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Scripture clearly teaches that seen is in the New Heaven And Earth, but the "bias" in a Millennial Kingdom on this Earth wants to cancel this truth with the word "dying" in a literal interpretation

The interpretation of a child "dying" at 100 years is symbolic of eternal to the human mind, and it's not literal as suggested
No because the word cursed is used:

"but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed."

The child is rebellious. Children who are disobedient were stoned to death under the Law.

How can you claim "sinner" and "accursed" is part of eternity and symbolic of long life?
 

ewq1938

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Are you sure it’s paralambano used in those other two places?


Yes.


Luk_18:31 ThenG1161 he tookG3880 unto him theG3588 twelve,G1427 and saidG2036 untoG4314 them,G846 Behold,G2400 we go upG305 toG1519 Jerusalem,G2414 andG2532 all thingsG3956 that are writtenG1125 byG1223 theG3588 prophetsG4396 concerning theG3588 SonG5207 of manG444 shall be accomplished.G5055

Joh_14:3 AndG2532 ifG1437 I goG4198 andG2532 prepareG2090 a placeG5117 for you,G5213 I will comeG2064 again,G3825 andG2532 receiveG3880 youG5209 untoG4314 myself;G1683 thatG2443 whereG3699 IG1473 am,G1510 there yeG5210 may beG5600 also.G2532


3880 paralambano {par-al-am-ban'-o}

from 3844 and 2983; TDNT - 4:11,495; v

AV - take 30, receive 15, take unto 2, take up 2, take away 1; 50

1) to take to, to take with one's self, to join to one's self
1a) an associate, a companion
1b) metaph.
1b1) to accept or acknowledge one to be such as he professes to be
1b2) not to reject, not to withhold obedience
2) to receive something transmitted
2a) an office to be discharged
2b) to receive with the mind
2b1) by oral transmission: of the authors from whom the
tradition proceeds
2b2) by the narrating to others, by instruction of teachers
(used of disciples)

"to take with one's self"
"to join to one's self"
"an associate"
"a companion"
"not to reject"
 

stunnedbygrace

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Aorist Active Participle form. Participles get -ing endings in English. We don't have an aorist tense, so typically they're translated as the English past tense. "Taking the 12 with Him..." or "Having taken the 12 with Him...".
And…is it also as with etai where it means something being done to you by someone else?
 

Truth7t7

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No because the word cursed is used:

"but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed."

The child is rebellious. Children who are disobedient were stoned to death under the Law.

How can you claim "sinner" and "accursed" is part of eternity and symbolic of long life?
The Words "Dying" "Accursed" are Symbolic Not Literal
 

stunnedbygrace

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It's active voice, so the subject (Jesus) is doing something, taking somebody(s). The "etai" was in the passive voice, so somebody is having something done to them, being taken.

That’s what I suspected. So taken takes on a different meaning in the one taken one left verses. It’s not a choice as when He took them and they followed Him to the mountain. It’s being done TO you.
 

Lambano

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That’s what I suspected. So taken takes on a different meaning in the one taken one left verses. It’s not a choice as when He took them and they followed Him to the mountain. It’s being done TO you.
I don't know if I would say they had no choice to follow, but it would be proper to say that Jesus was the initiator of the action.

Let's see where you want to go with this one.
 

stunnedbygrace

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I don't know if I would say they had no choice to follow, but it would be proper to say that Jesus was the initiator of the action.

Let's see where you want to go with this one.

No, I’m saying they did have a choice. But in one taken, one left, it is just done to them.
 

Lambano

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No, I’m saying they did have a choice. But in one taken, one left, it is just done to them.
Agreed. Sorry; I missed the "as" in the "as when" in your sentence. Those little words fall through the cracks of my perception sometimes. My bad.

Well, I suppose they could resist being taken. But being affirmed as what they purported to be and, in their hearts, longed to be, why would they want to?
 
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Timtofly

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The Words "Dying" "Accursed" are Symbolic Not Literal
Symbolic of the iron rod rule. Certainly not symbolic of the NHNE. Is ruling and reigning with an iron rod rule symbolic of the current age of Grace? Is there going to be a literal reign with an iron rod rule?
 

Truth7t7

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Symbolic of the iron rod rule. Certainly not symbolic of the NHNE. Is ruling and reigning with an iron rod rule symbolic of the current age of Grace? Is there going to be a literal reign with an iron rod rule?
No place in scripture does it state the Lord "Reigns" with a rod of iron

The Lord will rule with the rod of iron in destruction of the wicked, just as the potter destroys his vessels

This dosent equate to Jesus "Reigning" on this earth like a king with a iron scepter as you claim
 
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Timtofly

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No place in scripture does it state the Lord "Reigns" with a rod of iron

The Lord will rule with the rod of iron in destruction of the wicked, just as the potter destroys his vessels

This dosent equate Jesus "Reigning" on this earth like a king with a iron scepter you claim
I never said iron scepter nor king. You are changing the subject. Reign and rule mean the same thing.