Paralambanetai
- Thread starter stunnedbygrace
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Lambano
Well-Known Member
In a way, this is fun, but Jesus's point was that we are supposed to live our lives as though He could walk in that door 5 minutes from now. That point gets lost when we try to make the paralambano-ing another checkpoint on the End Times chart.
Now I need to prepare to get soaked.
Now I need to prepare to get soaked.
Well, if those taken are taken, according to the definition: because they are acknowledged to be what they profess to be, that’s a checkpoint I would want to look at.
What verse?
There are accounts in Matthew and Luke, which one?
Would have been nice to post it and remove the guessing?
Either or both.
I like Luke. It says the same day Noah entered the ark and right after Lot departed…
I certainly wouldn’t remove that from how it will be when He comes.
I like Luke. It says the same day Noah entered the ark and right after Lot departed…
I certainly wouldn’t remove that from how it will be when He comes.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
I think your conclusion that it's Jesus judging from among those who profess to follow Him who is really His, is solid. In fact, I think the context of talking to His followers (Matthew 24:3) and not the crowds in general support your conclusion. It would make no sense to tell non-believers to be doing what they're supposed to be doing when He returns. (Matthew 24:46). You earned the win here.
Jesus's point was that there will be judgment and it will be sudden and unexpected. The form that judgment takes is represented by the image of people being chosen and taken all of a sudden. The actual literal form doesn't matter. We are to be alert and ready.
Last edited:
Of course I had to hit like on that post!
I also think of the two reapings described in Revelation, this we’ve been talking about is the first one and the second one is much later, and is wicked removed.
14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16 So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.
17 Then another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18 And another angel came out from the altar, who had power over fire, and he cried with a loud cry to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, “Thrust in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, for her grapes are fully ripe.” 19 So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trampled outside the city, and blood came out of the winepress, up to the horses’ bridles, for one thousand six hundred furlongs.
I also think of the two reapings described in Revelation, this we’ve been talking about is the first one and the second one is much later, and is wicked removed.
14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16 So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.
17 Then another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18 And another angel came out from the altar, who had power over fire, and he cried with a loud cry to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, “Thrust in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, for her grapes are fully ripe.” 19 So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trampled outside the city, and blood came out of the winepress, up to the horses’ bridles, for one thousand six hundred furlongs.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Not sure what your point is. What Scripture points out God is going to leave some redeemed Gentiles behind to be looking up in fear?
The sealed 144k are all of Israel, not a Gentile among them. If you claim some Gentiles have purposely been left behind, that assertion needs some Scripture to back it up. Paul states all the church leaves at the Second Coming, not just some.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
That is not what I claimed. Those at the Cross were not glorified. They did receive incorruptible permanent physical bodies. That is not glorification. Glorification is putting on our spirit, so we can be a complete son of God in the full image of God, soul, body, and spirit.
Right now all we are is a soul in a corruptible body. The soul is the only image of God we retain. We have been given the Holy Spirit in place of our own spirit which is in the presence of God. If a spirit is not in God's presence, it is a demon on earth looking to take over the mind of other souls.
Those in Paradise have a soul and their permanent incorruptible physical body. Two parts out of the 3 to be a full image. They can only be in Paradise if they have a permanent incorruptible physical body. A dead flesh and blood body from Adam cannot enter Paradise. Only those changed can do so. Those in Paradise are currentently waiting for the Second Coming, to be glorified.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Somewhere along the line we seem to have gotten off track as far as understanding each other, and I'm not even sure where, but let me just clarify my positions regarding the rapture referred to in Matthew 24:38-31, and the apostasy mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4. The two passages are discussing two different subjects. Those taken in Matthew 24:31 are those who will be raptured up with Christ at His second coming, while those who will apostatize against God in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 are those Jews in Jerusalem who will denounce Him in order to save their lives rather than die at the hands of the Antichrist or flee to safety.
Just checking in for a second, so my apologies for non-involvement. Just trying to take a break for awhile, if possible.
God bless!
- H
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Why would you place death and dying in eternity? Do you leave out the verse about death and sinners on purpose?
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Do you have Jerusalem on earth at the same time there is a New Jerusalem coming down from heaven?
In Revelation 20 and 21, the old Jerusalem and earth no longer exist. How can you have both existing at the same time?
Jesus reigns in current Jerusalem as described in Zechariah 14 for 1000 years before the NHNE and the New Jerusalem. The mount of Olives and Jerusalem changed on earth is not the same New Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven. Current Jerusalem is less than 2 miles of geography. The New Jerusalem is 1200 miles of geography.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
The chapter describing New Jerusalem is highly symbolic. By your logic it is not literal and does not exist any more than death and being a sinner is not literal.
Zechariah 14 Is The (Eternal Kingdom)
Zechariah 14:1-12 below shows the Lords return to earth in fire in final judgement.
(Verse 1) shows "The Day Of The Lord" also seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13 "Fire Judgement" below
(Verse 2) Shows that all nations are gathered for the final battle of armageddon.
(Verses 3-5) shows the Lords return, and his eternal feet touch down on the earthly Mt, of Olives, and in the "Twinkling Of An Eye" 1 Cor 15:52 takes place, in the catching up, resurrection, final judgement by fire, and the New Heavens, Earth, and Jerusalem being revealed for eternity, judgement complete, eternity begins.
(Verses 6-7) Eternal light seen, in the eternal kingdom, Rev 22:1-5
(Verse 8) The river of life is seen, Rev 22:1-5
(Verse 10) The New creation is being revealed, the plain is lifted up.
(Verse 12) "The Day Of The Lord" showing the "Last Day" judgement by the Lords fire, as men are consumed as they stand on their feet, 2 Peter 3:10-13
2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Revelation 22:1KJV
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
"The Eternal Kingdom"!
Zechariah 14:1-12KJV
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 but it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lordshall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
Isaiah 65 & Revelation 21 are exactly the same place in the New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation (Behold, I Make All Things New)
Same New Earth, Jerusalem, Same Eternal City Where There Is No More Weeping or Crying
Scripture clearly teaches that seen is in the New Heaven And Earth, but the "bias" in a Millennial Kingdom on this Earth wants to cancel this truth with the word "dying" in a literal interpretation
The interpretation of a child "dying" at 100 years is symbolic of eternal to the human mind, and it's not literal as suggested
Scripture interprets itself, as you clearly see below, both are parallel descriptions of the exact same place, in the Eternal New Heavens, Earth, Jerusalem
Jesus Is The Lord
Isaiah 65:17-20KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
At No Time have I suggested the Eternal kingdom in the new heaven,earth, Jerusalem wasn't literal
The eternal kingdom will have the tree of life, fruit on it for food, there'll be animals, rivers with fish, fishermen, fishing nets
There will be houses built and vineyards planted, and its fruit eaten
Looks pretty literal to me!
Jesus Is The Lord
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
If death is not literal, why do people die?
Death is not a symbolism of eternal. Death is literally about being finite. Eternal is symbolic of never dying. Eternal really has no beginning nor ending. Humans have a beginning. In fact birth is the literal beginning of a human. A child is symbolic of a human who has not reached maturity. In this case a rebellious child is considered cursed and has to die. Sin and rebellion will not be allowed in this period. Not sure why one would want to conflate sin and death with being eternal. Eternal means without beginning and/or end.
Scripture clearly teaches that seen is in the New Heaven And Earth, but the "bias" in a Millennial Kingdom on this Earth wants to cancel this truth with the word "dying" in a literal interpretation
The interpretation of a child "dying" at 100 years is symbolic of eternal to the human mind, and it's not literal as suggested
Similar threads
