Paranoid Christianity

[bbyrd009]

Oh, I'm not talking about quitting or giving up. The discussion just came up because bbyrd was kind of ridiculing the need for ministers to have times of rest and recovery, and the need for there to be people called to serve in that way. I always hate to say it in venues like this, and I'll probably regret it, but I'm a pastor. I don't want people to receive me differently with that knowledge. But in this case, I'm bringing that to light so I can better explain myself.

I don't have any doubt of my calling. I give my heart for what the Lord has called me to do. I love the people that God has placed me with, and I take my commitment to them very seriously. I love my community, and my heart is for this community to experience God. I've been pastoring at this church for 14 years, and there have been many opportunities to give up, but there is a drive in me that won't let me give up.

The only point I was trying to make was to bring awareness that the life of a pastor is not easy, and they do have needs, too.

You completely misunderstood me there. I was not talking about taking a break from God. I'm talking about needing a vacation now and then to get away from the daily grind and recharge spiritually, emotionally, and mentally. Like I said earlier, it's easy to get so caught up in all of the work and issues in your face all the time that sometimes it takes getting away to be able to seek the Lord for vision beyond what's right in front of you. Even Jesus had times that He wanted to be alone with the Father on top of the mountain.

Again, the only reason I even brought any of this up is because I was sharing my sister's calling to minister to weary ministers, and people were being judgmental about that, when they have an amazing and humble heart about it.

i hope you understand that i am not judging them at all, just offering a different perspective that might also be useful.
"Weary" is a sign to me, and i am a pastor too

 

[bbyrd009]

But in spite of weariness we cannot quit

i might be misunderstanding, dunno, but can you Quote this concept? i don't think so wadr

speaking generally,
if something you are doing is making you weary, please quit imo
you are not helping anyone, and you are prolly hurting them
fostering codependence or whatever
"weary" is the sign that you are doing something wrong

 

[bbyrd009]

"And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not." Gal 6:9

Also remember that we may never see the results we might like to see. This does not mean we have not done the work that He has called us to do.

both of these are true, right, even though they are hard to reconcile

 

[bbyrd009]

imo at least be willing to see that God might put you on a path strictly to show you the futility of doing something that you are determined to do anyway. The day a pastor lets his ordination lapse (which means "stops sending in his monthly dues" btw) is the greatest day of his life imo. But of course he rarely sees it that way, and there is no retreat for him, see, he is outside the camp now right

I've heard it stated that "play" is in Scripture twice as often as "redemption," although i've never counted.

be willing to contemplate that every single thing a religious person ever told you is wrong, and that goes double for "ordained" ppl imo

this does not mean that they are not serving God, or not seeking as best they are able, none of those things, i am not judging anyone; i am saying be willing to change your mind, and nevermind what anyone else says, especially if they cannot Quote it to your satisfaction

 

[lforrest]

I fundamentally disagree with the assumption that ministers should not become weary.

It is as though you are saying it isn't good to have private time with the Lord. When that is most important.

Consider that how someone works can cause weariness, rather than the work itself. We have to overcome our perception of good ministry, and use the style God has predesposed us towards. In the same way the gospels speak differently by the same Spirit, not all ministries should be the same. I believe it is the superfluous efforts, outside of God's will, which make ministers weary.

This is under ideal conditions, but ministers do not operate under such. They can easily find themselves in the middle of church conflict. Who doesn't become weary when everyone turns against them.

 

[bbyrd009]

I fundamentally disagree with the assumption that ministers should not become weary.

then you should be able to Quote the concept imo,
although i didn't exactly mean "don't become weary," but more like "read the signs."

but imo your post brings us closer to truth, i gotta agree with most of it

 

[amadeus]

Oh, I'm not talking about quitting or giving up. The discussion just came up because bbyrd was kind of ridiculing the need for ministers to have times of rest and recovery, and the need for there to be people called to serve in that way. I always hate to say it in venues like this, and I'll probably regret it, but I'm a pastor. I don't want people to receive me differently with that knowledge. But in this case, I'm bringing that to light so I can better explain myself.

Again, I agree. Pastors are men and while they have their priority with God that does not mean they are not allowed to take some time for self and family.

The problem that @bbyrd009 and others likely too often see is with those who bear the label pastor but without a calling simply want to get whatever they can to satisfy their own flesh... or perhaps worse are the ones who are really called by God but then for the large part disregard His will for the job. Regarding your position, I will only say that I will certainly keep you in my prayers to do things as God would have you do them. Unfortunately, some who have had bad experiences with ministers in positions like your might focus on you as a target.

I don't have any doubt of my calling. I give my heart for what the Lord has called me to do. I love the people that God has placed me with, and I take my commitment to them very seriously. I love my community, and my heart is for this community to experience God. I've been pastoring at this church for 14 years, and there have been many opportunities to give up, but there is a drive in me that won't let me give up.

The only point I was trying to make was to bring awareness that the life of a pastor is not easy, and they do have needs, too.

From what I have seen here you are speaking only the truth. Keep on working at and leaning heavily on the Lord!

You completely misunderstood me there. I was not talking about taking a break from God. I'm talking about needing a vacation now and then to get away from the daily grind and recharge spiritually, emotionally, and mentally. Like I said earlier, it's easy to get so caught up in all of the work and issues in your face all the time that sometimes it takes getting away to be able to seek the Lord for vision beyond what's right in front of you. Even Jesus had times that He wanted to be alone with the Father on top of the mountain.

And a very tired Jesus was asleep in the boat. Sorry for misunderstanding. I see no problem with time away or a vacation so long as you are always striving to keep first things first. Give God the glory!

Again, the only reason I even brought any of this up is because I was sharing my sister's calling to minister to weary ministers, and people were being judgmental about that, when they have an amazing and humble heart about it.

I have seen some of that as well. When my own pastor's wife passed away, it wasn't long before some in his assembly were criticizing him for allowing someone in his assembly to do some of the household chores that his wife had always done for him. The man was in his 80's when she died and is now 92. He did not even know how to do many of those things. After 66 years of marriage to a dedicated hard working wife, he only really knew the work of God. Sometimes people are completely out of bounds in their criticisms. How many men that age do all of those things for themselves, without regard to being a pastor? He drove over 19,000 miles last year alone to minister to other congregations that wanted him to bless them with his presence... and that is not even close to describing all that he did to serve people.

 

[amadeus]

so you say, and i agree this sounds right, but i suggest at least considering that this prevailing perspective might be one that arises from following the world too closely, and accepting the world's premises. Iow constructing a life that you don't need a vacation from might be a better way to go.

Each person must walk as God directs him to walk. We are not all the same and God knows that. The key I have found is from Jeremiah and I quote it rather frequently:

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jere, 10:23

A verse that goes along with it is this one:

"O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!" Psalm 119:5

God will not direct us all the same because we are not all the same.

 

[aspen]

You don't say hey..........like how? Of course, beyond the laundry list Jesus gave, like providing the needy with food, shelter, clothing, not treating others like garbage, or any worse than you would treat yourself, etc.

What is your point?

 

[amadeus]

both of these are true, right, even though they are hard to reconcile

Hard to reconcile in the mind of man using man's normal carnal means or even what he calls logic. This is why we must live by faith instead of by knowledge. People wanting to insist on certain knowledge in their walk with God will likely sometime come up against that difficult to reconcile situation for themselves:

"For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith." Rom 1:17

Then check what Jesus said to Thomas:
"... Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29

 

[Dcopymope]

"Its hard to put a leash on a dog when you place a crown on its head." - Tyrion Lannister

good one lol

Well, Tyrion is a wise man you know. Better be careful who you vote for.

 

[pia]

but there really is so much more

That's the understatement of the millenia lol........He NEVER ceases to amaze me and bring me into awe and wonder........Our God is indeed a VERY good God...

 

[bbyrd009]

The problem that @bbyrd009 and others likely too often see is with those who bear the label pastor but without a calling simply want to get whatever they can to satisfy their own flesh... or perhaps worse are the ones who are really called by God but then for the large part disregard His will for the job.

i consider these symptoms of the real problem, which is systemic. Although i don't blame prospective pastors who seek ordination because that is what the world requires, neither would i let them interpret for me. Any longer.

Regarding your position, I will only say that I will certainly keep you in my prayers to do things as God would have you do them.

me too, there is no reason you cannot serve God right where you are at, i am as conflicted as anyone i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

Well, Tyrion is a wise man you know. Better be careful who you vote for.

ha. i don't believe in electing leaders, but recognizing them instead; different system

 

[forrestcupp]

i consider these symptoms of the real problem, which is systemic. Although i don't blame prospective pastors who seek ordination because that is what the world requires, neither would i let them interpret for me. Any longer.
me too, there is no reason you cannot serve God right where you are at, i am as conflicted as anyone i guess

See, you hit on something there. There are certain venues of ministry that the world will not allow a person into except for an ordination. I've been able to minister to people in jails one on one in situations where they wouldn't have allowed me in if I weren't ordained. We're not of the world, but we are in it. And because of that, we have to either follow certain protocols, or just not reach entire groups of people. There are times when following the trends of the world are against God, and there are other times when it's not an issue of sin, but an issue of having to put up with dumb rules to get the gospel to more people. Paul said he had the freedom to eat as much meat sacrificed to idols as he wanted, but if it became a stumbling block to someone he was around, he would refrain.

Obviously I'm not saying everyone should be ordained, though. There is the whole issue of a lot of people in the new testament being ordained into their ministries, though.

 

[Helen]

i might be misunderstanding, dunno, but can you Quote this concept? i don't think so wadr


if something you are doing is making you weary, please quit imo
you are not helping anyone, and you are prolly hurting them
fostering codependence or whatever
"weary" is the sign that you are doing something wrong

Agree.
Our first old pastor taught us a little phrase.
Jesus leads, Satan drives.
Being "burned out" is a sure sign that we have moved out of God's anointing for whatever we are doing...and into doing it in our own strength, not His.
That was good advice. When we had our own church we remembered this.

A different wise brother taught us later .."You will always be called out to minister and help...the 2am phone calls will come. But never forget to ask God about it before you act, because Satan also will try to keep you "busy" with time wasters who just need attention. And you will burn out "

We think we are indispensable, but amazingly not one of us is!!

In each of our lives, whatever good thing God has called and anointed us to do...always be ready, When the Glory-Cloud moves on...we need to be ready to fold up out tents and follow the Ark.
Our weakness is in continuing on after God has moved ,it is labouring on in our own strength with causes burn-out.

My two cents...

 

[pia]

Jesus leads, Satan drives.

Wonderful, insightful post...Thanks

 

[forrestcupp]

Agree.
Our first old pastor taught us a little phrase.
Jesus leads, Satan drives.
Being "burned out" is a sure sign that we have moved out of God's anointing for whatever we are doing...and into doing it in our own strength, not His.
That was good advice. When we had our own church we remembered this.

A different wise brother taught us later .."You will always be called out to minister and help...the 2am phone calls will come. But never forget to ask God about it before you act, because Satan also will try to keep you "busy" with time wasters who just need attention. And you will burn out "

We think we are indispensable, but amazingly not one of us is!!

In each of our lives, whatever good thing God has called and anointed us to do...always be ready, When the Glory-Cloud moves on...we need to be ready to fold up out tents and follow the Ark.
Our weakness is in continuing on after God has moved ,it is labouring on in our own strength with causes burn-out.

My two cents...

You're absolutely right. One thing, though, becoming weary or burnt out isn't necessarily a sign that it's time to leave a church or calling and move on. It's possible that's what it could mean, but it could also mean that it's time to set boundaries, get back into the flow of God, and regain vision and hope for what God has called you to do right where you're at. Everyone needs times of refreshing from time to time. Nobody is perfect, and everyone is going to have times where we get like Epaphraditus, and get weary with well doing. That guy almost died because he was doing too much for God's kingdom.

But no matter whether a burnt out pastor is at fault for his/her state or not, the simple truth is that it happens a lot. And when it happens, there comes with that deep hurt, emotional scars, disappointment, and depression. Do we just look at them and criticize them for doing things wrong, or do we minister to them, love them, build them up, and help get them back on track? The only reason any of this came up is because I was talking about my sister's calling of having a home with a lake that she could use as a retreat to minister to pastors and missionaries (and many other hurting children of God), to allow them to come and be refreshed and loved on. It doesn't matter whose fault it was, there are people in that state who need something like this to help them clear their minds and find God again.

Plus, it's not always the pastor's fault, anyway. In practicality, people can be very ungrateful, and even outright mean to their pastor. It's not an issue of boundaries sometimes. There are people who go to churches who are outright mean, overly critical, and hateful, and even spiteful. It's really sad, but most people just have no idea what many pastors have to suffer after pouring their heart and love into people's lives. Thankfully, I'm not in that situation right now. But I've experienced it in the past, and it's no fun.