Paranoid Christianity

[amadeus]

leaving them all in the desert didn't seem to be a problem, i guess

What I meant is that God understands it all and easily understands it at that. Some things some of us may understand easily or hard, but some of us may not understand some things at all. I don't believe there would be such varied levels of understanding with God. There would be essentially nothing impossible or nothing difficult for Him and to say one thing was easier than another for Him would likely be a meaningless statement. Consider:

"For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?
But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.
And he arose, and departed to his house." Matt 9:5-7

For your benefit since you have expressed a difficulty at times with the KJV, I have include the same verses from the YLT:

"for which is easier? to say, The sins have been forgiven to thee; or to say, Rise, and walk?
'But, that ye may know that the Son of Man hath power upon the earth to forgive sins—(then saith he to the paralytic) —having risen, take up thy couch, and go to thy house.'
And he, having risen, went to his house," Matt 9:5-7

 

[bbyrd009]

Are you born again bbyrd?

satan appears as an angel of light

 

[amadeus]

i don't see how their motives mattered; that they manifested snakes is explanation enough for me. i personally don't understand how a contemporary believer could not relate their present circumstances to the Wanderers, and i'm pretty sure it's bc the example is so relevant that the passage is just ignored tbh, just like the ppl here who cannot face so many certain verses

Some people don't relate today to OT situations described for different reasons I would guess. Some probably have never read the verses involved. Among those who have read them some have had little understanding of the relevancy to them. Some cannot be troubled or do not want to be troubled with the meaning of some of those OT verses as they might apply to themselves.

Didn't someone make up a phrase, "easy believability"? Could that a phrase relates to a man who simply believes God as He is, whatever that is, or to a man who without really considering God at all wants to go the easy way. Those two are not the same, are they? What the carnal man considers easy is not necessarily really easy. For God it is all really just as easy as one thing is not harder to do than another. If we are surrendering our reins always to God, why would it not also be easy for us?

 

[bbyrd009]

Some cannot be troubled or do not want to be troubled with the meaning of some of those OT verses as they might apply to themselves.

some are also hopelessly adrift at "faith and works" too i guess
and works and the law
and the law and faith

 

[bbyrd009]

If we are surrendering our reins always to God, why would it not also be easy for us?

fasting goes there, i guess.

many ppl physically or psychologically cannot fast? i guess?
my fam abuses food, and i have never had a problem completely forgetting to eat--since maturity anyway--so i had to find an analogue myself, but the principle is the same i guess.

 

[amadeus]

when Christ says "leave the world" and you go join the world,
to the extent that you literally sign Contracts for Jesus, what else is there to say?
Say whatever you like, it is the works that are judged

It gets ever harder to remain outside or to get outside of man's system. Even without someone implanting a small piece of electronics under you skin, who is not trapped by the system? Can you get a small piece of land and live for God alone with no influence from the powers of men invested in governments? A strong young person might try, but how long will he be left completely alone? How long can he refrain from dipping into some of those things that only the society controlled by governments provides?

Did the early Church do it easier? Was influence of the government of the Roman Empire easier to escape than the government of the United States? Probably it was and the controls today are tightening even more, are they not?

Are Christians are OK so long as they do not insist on too much?

plenty of Spirit led pastors out there who scoff at ordination of men, and refuse to become arms of the government.
But trust me no one would much like what they are preaching, there is no Party in the Sky with Jesus with these guys
no "pillows," no "soft landings."

This is the problem certainly for most Christians in the United States, is it not? Could we serve God without our "pillows" and "soft landing" places? A preacher might be able to preach it, but how many would really be willing to do it like Jesus did it? Then again, if we fell short in our faith toward God, would it not be even more difficult? Maybe it all comes back to that subject of being perfect. Remember this young man?

"The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me." Matt 19:20-21

What if Jesus told each one of us to sell it all and follow Him with no home, nothing in our pocket and no bank account, etc? People may not all follow the teachers of what we call "prosperity gospels", but certainly in the United States and other technologically advanced countries many other "believers" would hold tightly to what they consider their prosperity against doing what Jesus told that young man to do, would they not?

 

[amadeus]

some are also hopelessly adrift at "faith and works" too i guess
and works and the law
and the law and faith

Two problems I see immediately. One is that there are not many ministers teaching what people do not really want to hear... even if it is the truth and God wants them to teach it. Two is that not many people are really looking for ministers who are teaching whatever it is that God wants people to learn.

 

[bbyrd009]

If we are surrendering our reins always to God, why would it not also be easy for us?

so i s'pose there is a dichotomy at study to show yourself approved, kinda what we are doing here, and plowing your own ground. Which might be what some other ppl are doing here.
worth a thread even, prolly

 

[amadeus]

fasting goes there, i guess.

many ppl physically or psychologically cannot fast? i guess?
my fam abuses food, and i have never had a problem completely forgetting to eat--since maturity anyway--so i had to find an analogue myself, but the principle is the same i guess.

So then the real problem is people like to hold onto their own reins. They want to decide when to read what, when to decide what or nothing, when to pray to God and when to play with their friends at whatever. How many are willing to hand their reins over to God 24/7. It is easy enough to say that that is what you would like to do, isn't it?

You speak of fasting, but as you have indicated, fasting from food would not be as difficult for you as for other members of your family. God, of course, would know this difference and would allow more credit for one of them fasting than for you fasting...or?

 

[amadeus]

so i s'pose there is a dichotomy at study to show yourself approved, kinda what we are doing here, and plowing your own ground. Which might be what some other ppl are doing here.
worth a thread even, prolly

I for many years have read that verse you cited [study to show yourself approved] as a call to study ONLY out of obedience to God rather to learn and understand all of God's Way. The learning and understanding, if it comes, comes as a result of following the Holy Ghost [as per John 14:26] rather than from studying. As per Ecc 12:12 much study is a weariness of the flesh. This also applies especially to studying the Bible without being led by the Holy Ghost.

Reading the Bible may well be eating the flesh of Jesus, but without the Holy Ghost quickening it, it is eating of a dead body.

 

[bbyrd009]

So I think you might give that a bit of thought before cracking down on all of them.

you might note that we hold doctors in much the same esteem as ministers, right. Not sure where i was going with that now, except to say that i don't allow either one to get between me and my health, nor me and God.

 

[bbyrd009]

Can you get a small piece of land and live for God alone with no influence from the powers of men invested in governments?

fwiw i tried, see "Flintopia" on FB if you like; but turns out you could not buy any "land" anyway, that is virtually impossible, reserved for Congressmen and Judges and the like. "Real estate" is all we can get.

everything we are taught is a lie, see. every single thing.
contains enough truth to sell, but that's it

 

[bbyrd009]

i guess that sounds conspiratorial, or paranoid, but it is just the simple facts. i could finish this page and fill the next with the yack we are assured is truth that is complete falsehood.
think you must have a license to operate a vehicle?
must have license plates?
think you can buy land?
think the Federal Reserve is either one?
think dollars are money?
think food is available at a store?
think doctors provide "health care?"
on and on, why just depress ppl i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

A strong young person might try, but how long will he be left completely alone? How long can he refrain from dipping into some of those things that only the society controlled by governments provides?

ha, "alone," that guy is going to get more grief per square foot than anyone in the world lol. At least we did. i would go and give everything you own away first, houses included, and start your journey from there. And don't kid yourself that you are a rich man, if you can read this.

But you would have to do this while you are still young enough, i s'pose; i would not even counsel someone over 50 doing this after growing up in the world. Very hard at 20 even. But this path is how one is led into making tents, which Paul almost surely...picked up along the way, let's say. While he was on the run, with a price on his head iow

 

[bbyrd009]

Did the early Church do it easier?

ha well the Acts account records how they did, i guess, all references to their belief that Rapture was eminent neatly scribed away; but we can note that Paul was collecting alms for them a few years later, right. Point being i guess it wasn't any easier then than now, but i don't know. Seems like the lower population alone would have made the task easier.

But i have learned that that is just cloistering, i guess, not a ship at sea, but a ship in a harbor?

Probably it was and the controls today are tightening even more, are they not?

the Empire is global now, yes. Or virtually so. Iran has a Central Bank now, Libya was torched after Qaddafi tried to issue gold dinars (but of course we destroyed the Great Man-Made River first, took almost a month, i guess:
"
But following the start of NATO’s ‘humanitarian’ bombardment of Libya, the summers of 2011 became a cause for a large number of foreign employees to leave the country.

Image Source: Amusing Planet – A long line of heavy duty trucks transporting concrete pipes across the desert.
In July 2011, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization not only bombed the Great Man-Made River water system and pipelines near Brega, but additionally eradicated the plant that created the concrete pipes that were used as replacements during repairs. They justified their actions by claiming that the pipeline factory was used as a warehouse for the military.

Additionally, they also said that the same pipeline manufacture plant was used as a launch site for missiles and rockets. When NATO forces bombed that pipe building plant, more than five security officers were wiped out, along with the water supply system that supplied the general public with water for personal consumption and agricultural purposes – hitting Libya’s essential infrastructure.
" The Great Man-Made River of Gaddafi: What Happened To It?

sooo, we're pretty much free to concentrate on N Korea now, the only one left i think

 

[bbyrd009]

Are Christians are OK so long as they do not insist on too much?

ha, a Christian who is not zealous for their rights, who can find one?

 

[bbyrd009]

but certainly in the United States and other technologically advanced countries many other "believers" would hold tightly to what they consider their prosperity against doing what Jesus told that young man to do, would they not?

just as a diabetic cannot practically fast, an "American" has practically lost the ability to do what Christ commanded now, i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

Two problems I see immediately. One is that there are not many ministers teaching what people do not really want to hear... even if it is the truth and God wants them to teach it. Two is that not many people are really looking for ministers who are teaching whatever it is that God wants people to learn.

why rely on an intermediary at all? that is not in Scripture anywhere, and the vv that suggest that are misinterpreted imo.
We are a kingdom of Priests after all, right. All hidden right there in plain sight, just like the trackback button in a quote banner!
why the whole banner is not a button is just bad software engineering tho lol

 

[bbyrd009]

God, of course, would know this difference and would allow more credit for one of them fasting than for you fasting...or?

that was the message i got after being rather proud of a ten day fast, ya. Led me to the cave.
"Cave" is a great Scripture study too, as it turns out

as far as any credit goes, though, i would not be expecting any future credit for fasting, that is not the point imo

 

[bbyrd009]

I for many years have read that verse you cited [study to show yourself approved] as a call to study ONLY out of obedience to God rather to learn and understand all of God's Way. The learning and understanding, if it comes, comes as a result of following the Holy Ghost [as per John 14:26] rather than from studying. As per Ecc 12:12 much study is a weariness of the flesh. This also applies especially to studying the Bible without being led by the Holy Ghost.

Reading the Bible may well be eating the flesh of Jesus, but without the Holy Ghost quickening it, it is eating of a dead body.

i was disapproving of someone misusing world for earth the other day, and realized that that likely means "approved by men," as weird as that might seem at first. But i'm more confident of that now tbh. May not be strictly true tho, i still get revelations pretty much daily from Scripture or a study, so i dunno. i have gotten delusions that way too, back when i was a meth head lol.
i even went "i am saved forever, ergo i cannot sin, ergo i do not need to ever confess" for a while

i just recently read that one of Saul's (pre-Paul's iow) chief disagreements with Zeno (Stoicism) was that Saul believed that no esoteric knowledge was necessary at all to seek and follow God (this was BC), whereas Zeno believed in secret knowledge that was hard or even impossible for many to obtain