Paranoid Christianity

[forrestcupp]

i'm not sure how i could make that any clearer, sorry.

Many ppl seem to go to extreme lengths to avoid admitting any wrongs one to another, period, right; and "accepting Jesus" is then a way to avoid confessing one to another, by either "confessing sin to God," which is not Quotable from Scripture, anywhere, or the surely much more damaging "Catholic confession + penance," an entirely pagan concept
well, if they're actually following i guess the semantics won't matter, and if they're worshipping the causes will not be rebounded from, and the semantics won't save them.

While I don't completely agree, we're on the same page about the need for Christians to continue confessing their sins.

James 5:16 does teach for us to confess our sins to one another so that we may be healed. There are times when it is appropriate to confess to people. A couple of great reasons are 1) for accountability reasons, and 2) for reconciliation when you have sinned against a person. I've heard about a certain contemporary cult that takes that too far, though. This cult forces everyone to be completely transparent and get up in front of the group and confess everything. While I believe transparency is valuable, there is also value in privacy, and in certain cases, being completely transparent with someone who isn't ready for that can do more harm than good. Also being vulnerable with someone who hasn't earned your trust is extremely unwise.

But on the other hand, we have 1 John 1:9

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

In this verse, God is the one forgiving you and cleansing you, so it's implied that He is the one you're confessing to. There is no indication in that passage that it's talking about confessing to someone else. You and God are the only two parties mentioned in that verse.

"Christ died for your sins" can either be accepted as a sacrifice that gives every believer a get out of jail free card

I agree that some people use it that way. But it's wrong to look at it as a get out of jail free card. Paul even says:

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
Romans 6:2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

But just because people use it the wrong way doesn't mean that Christ didn't die as a sacrifice because of our sinful state. The Bible is packed full of scriptures that say that He did. Here are a few:

1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for [those of] the whole world.

Romans 4:25 [He] who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, [the] just for [the] unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

 

[bbyrd009]

are you Catholic bac, @forrestcupp?

What do you think about parents who refuse medical care for their children who have a serious illness that results in the death of the child and that could have been prevented?

boy, i try not to? that is a tragic situation, at least to us, huh. But i think that is a multifaceted thing, the kid did not surprise God by dying, first off, so i'd keep that in mind. Without getting too far afield here, i guess it's fair to say that we are obsessed with death, naturally, but epidemics (and forest fires) serve a purpose, so there is that to consider.

I'm one of those ppl, i guess, so i should state my bias here. But i do understand the (feminine) desire to keep one's brother, so to speak, even if we even warp this to our ends imo, and they become profit centers. After all, healthy ppl make bad consumers. Fwiw if the kid was old enough to talk, i would be guided by their desires, as a parent.

i would also consider a child's death preceding their parents' as a sign from God, but i'd be careful about interpreting it

 

[truthquest]

i would also consider a child's death preceding their parents' as a sign from God, but i'd be careful about interpreting it

How would that be a sign from God?

 

[bbyrd009]

How would that be a sign from God?

well, it is not in the natural order for children to precede their parents in death, and whereas if we lived closer to God and did not do so much to insulate ourselves from Him i might be less inclined to consider a child's death a sign, in our current climate imo that is about the only channel God has to get our attention. I'm speaking specifically to Western Christians here, and i guess my answer would be diff for someone else maybe. We are obv deaf to most of the other channels now imo

But i'd like to stress that i would almost never be convinced that i had properly interpreted the sign to the point where i could say
"God took Johnnie because _____."

 

[Triumph1300]

What do you think about parents who refuse medical care for their children who have a serious illness that results in the death of the child and that could have been prevented?

This should be interesting....

 

[forrestcupp]

are you Catholic bac, @forrestcupp?

No, not at all. The Catholic sacrament of confession is rooted in the history of when the Church wanted to control the people's lives. It definitely doesn't have its roots in a good heart or biblical theology. I believe there are many Catholic people who truly love the Lord. But I don't agree with a lot of their practices.

 

[bbyrd009]

This should be interesting....

Strangely, imo the concept might be contemplated from several other perspectives, the one that springs to mind being
"what do you think about people who put out forest fires to protect their (essentially) financial standing,"
or even
"what do you think about ppl who bankrupt themselves and anyone else they can find, all in the name of keeping a favored Lost Cause alive."

 

[amadeus]

I haven't been around enough to know the context of what is being said here. And I deeply believe in Jesus' truth of knowing a tree by its fruit. But I would just hate for people to get to the point that they claim people have a mental illness because they disagree with the way you believe. Don't forget that Joy Behar basically said that we all have a mental illness because of our beliefs.

And what was they called Jesus?

"And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself." Mark 3:21

 

[amadeus]

So you pretty much don't take anything in the Bible literally then. I think there will be a lot that you and I disagree about, and since you can't take the Bible literally, there is really no platform to stand on in any discussion.

You really may be surprised if you stick around a while.

 

[amadeus]

Your gunna tire out that Nehushtan horse if you keep riding it all over the place.

Unfortunately it continues to fit and yet most people who don't know what it means probably make little or even no effort to find out.

 

[amadeus]

Nehustan? I can’t handle it.......maybe I need to find one of those Appalachian snake churches....

Believe it or they are not confined to Appalachia. We have some in Oklahoma as well.

 

[amadeus]

Back to the OP......or more like it, the title of the thread

Paranoid Christianity is superstitious Christianity. Not knowing the future is the bane of our existence and we will go to any length to nail down what we cannot possibly know. Divination of the scriptures, praying to whoever we feel is going to push our agenda, legalizing our relationship with God - as if we could sue Him for breach of contract from our place in Hell.

Jesus preached faith for a good reason....it is the antithesis of superstitious and short circuits paranoia. Without all that clutter we can relax our guard......be vulnerable.....receive and give love.

Very good!

 

[amadeus]

All right @bbyrd009

I have a thought for you. You've been pushing this Nehushtan bull hockey a lot. In your opinion, Nehushtan equates to Jesus (I think). You talk about the one time in the entire Bible that Nehushtan is mentioned, which is when Hezekiah destroyed it so people would stop worshiping the bronze idol in the image of a serpent. And because of what Jesus said in John 3:14 (I assume), you say that Jesus equals Nehushtan. But Jesus never said He was Nehushtan. All He did was compare His crucifixion to the event of Moses lifting up the serpent. It was a comparison in that both were lifted up, and people are saved as a result. He was using a very familiar story to prove a point. It was a real-life parable. Like when He said the Kingdom of God is like a guy who found a pearl of great value, He isn't saying the Kingdom equals a pearl. You of all people should know when something in the Bible isn't literal.

Anyway, you claim we should follow Christ, but that it's wrong to be worshippers of Jesus because that equates to worshipping Nehushtan, which Hezekiah destroyed in the reformation. So why is it that Romans 10:9 specifically says that we have to confess that Jesus is Lord? It doesn't use the word "Christ," it specifically says that Jesus is Lord. That means that in order to be saved, we have to submit to Jesus.

I believe that you have missed the point of @bbyrd009 using Nehushtan. Initially the bronze serpent had a positive purpose according to God to heal those bitten by snakes, but people changed that purpose when they began to worship it. People now worship the wrong thing with the wrong purpose and that is the point. That is the Nehushtan involvement. They really don't understand who or what Jesus is/was and so also is their worship. Why do people simply fill up a pew regularly and say the name of Jesus when they do not know and sometimes don't even care who or what He is/was?

Why is pastors or ministers preach to tickle the audience's ears rather than to please God and to present those people with God's truth and He would have it presented?

"Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.
They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:
They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:
They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.
They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them." Psalm 115:4-8

 

[Helen]

I believe that you have missed the point of @bbyrd009 using Nehushtan. Initially the bronze serpent had a positive purpose according to God to heal those bitten by snakes, but people changed that purpose when they began to worship it. People now worship the wrong thing with the wrong purpose and that is the point. That is the Nehushtan involvement. They really don't understand who or what Jesus is/was and so also is their worship. Why do people simply fill up a pew regularly and say the name of Jesus when they do not know and sometimes don't even care who or what He is/was?

Why is pastors or ministers preach to tickle the audience's ears rather than to please God and to present those people with God's truth and He would have it presented?

"Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.
They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:
They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:
They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.
They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them." Psalm 115:4-8

Plus also those who worship/Nehushtan....by relegating/demoting Jesus to just The Teacher that we need to follow,... wearing sandals walking through this world. And not as the all powerful Creator and Lord of all.

 

[bbyrd009]

I believe that you have missed the point of @bbyrd009 using Nehushtan. Initially the bronze serpent had a positive purpose according to God to heal those bitten by snakes, but people changed that purpose when they began to worship it. People now worship the wrong thing with the wrong purpose and that is the point. That is the Nehushtan involvement. They really don't understand who or what Jesus is/was and so also is their worship. Why do people simply fill up a pew regularly and say the name of Jesus when they do not know and sometimes don't even care who or what He is/was?

Why is pastors or ministers preach to tickle the audience's ears rather than to please God and to present those people with God's truth and He would have it presented?

"Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.
They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:
They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:
They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.
They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them." Psalm 115:4-8

ty A, i have a big blind spot, @ looking at myself in a mirror, and then walking away and forgetting what i looked like, see, i auto-assume that as soon as i learn something, everyone else already knows it lol, stuff like that. Nehushtan took a while, i guess, so i invite as many perspectives there as possible.

Imo even your "positive purpose" is kind of shorthand; i agree in one sense, but there is more to the pov also...have to think of a mind exercise for that, i guess. Can you, anyone, think of one? the parameters are basically

the ppl manifest evil (snakes)
evil kills them
looking at something their father tells them to "look at" relieves them of their snakebit condition, that they manifested

so iow the snake on a pole (which was not...had not been named yet) should be presented as more of a cessation or remediation of a negative purpose, in that light; we are not talking about moving forward, but stopping backing up iow. imo

but is...i dunno, rehab, say, a good thing? sure, in a sense

 

[bbyrd009]

rehab is a life saver, for someone in that position, of course!
Gets them all the way back to Lost, and Wandering, with a hope of Salvation

 

[amadeus]

ty A, i have a big blind spot, @ looking at myself in a mirror, and then walking away and forgetting what i looked like, see, i auto-assume that as soon as i learn something, everyone else already knows it lol, stuff like that. Nehushtan took a while, i guess, so i invite as many perspectives there as possible.

Many things take a while for each of us, but not all of us are working on, or having worked on, the same thing simultaneously. Only God is able comprehend all of these things all of the time about everyone.

Imo even your "positive purpose" is kind of shorthand; i agree in one sense, but there is more to the pov also...have to think of a mind exercise for that, i guess. Can you, anyone, think of one? the parameters are basically

the ppl manifest evil (snakes)
evil kills them
looking at something their father tells them to "look at" relieves them of their snakebit condition, that they manifested

so iow the snake on a pole (which was not...had not been named yet) should be presented as more of a cessation or remediation of a negative purpose, in that light; we are not talking about moving forward, but stopping backing up iow. imo

but is...i dunno, rehab, say, a good thing? sure, in a sense

When I used the word "positive" I had in mind doing exactly what God ultimately would have wanted them to do. But, it is a group of people and the purpose was very likely not the same for each one or even any two. But...

Some would have looked at the snake as part of the right hand of God to move closer to God, while others would have been moved as part of the left hand of God as examples to others, but without a real interest in approaching closer to God. The latter were holding too close to their own selfish ways to really want to approach God. Were there also some with of mixture of those motives or perhaps some other motives? Just thinking about it for me gets complicated. It does help us understand how great and complicated God really has to be. Nothing is hard for Him?

 

[forrestcupp]

I believe that you have missed the point of @bbyrd009 using Nehushtan. Initially the bronze serpent had a positive purpose according to God to heal those bitten by snakes, but people changed that purpose when they began to worship it. People now worship the wrong thing with the wrong purpose and that is the point. That is the Nehushtan involvement. They really don't understand who or what Jesus is/was and so also is their worship. Why do people simply fill up a pew regularly and say the name of Jesus when they do not know and sometimes don't even care who or what He is/was?

Why is pastors or ministers preach to tickle the audience's ears rather than to please God and to present those people with God's truth and He would have it presented?

"Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.
They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:
They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:
They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.
They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them." Psalm 115:4-8

So what you're saying is that the Nehushtan comparison isn't saying it's wrong to worship Jesus, but that it's wrong to worship a false perception of who Jesus is? If that's what you're saying, I might be able to somewhat go along with that. I was under the impression that bbyrd was just straight up saying that it's wrong to worship Jesus, and I can't go along with that at all.

But your post brings up a big question. Why do some of you guys judge all pastors as being money-hungry men who tickle people's ears with false gospel. That's as silly as saying all postal workers are mass murderers because one "went postal" once. Not all pastors are money-hungry men who preach false gospels. Some are pure-hearted people who seek the Lord and faithfully study the Word because they want God to move in people's lives. It's not fair to judge them all because some are bad.

 

[amadeus]

rehab is a life saver, for someone in that position, of course!
Gets them all the way back to Lost, and Wandering, with a hope of Salvation

Yes, and for some or even all that may have been the primary purpose... but without the mind of God, how much can we know and how much must be speculation?

 

[amadeus]

So what you're saying is that the Nehushtan comparison isn't saying it's wrong to worship Jesus, but that it's wrong to worship a false perception of who Jesus is? If that's what you're saying, I might be able to somewhat go along with that. I was under the impression that bbyrd was just straight up saying that it's wrong to worship Jesus, and I can't go along with that at all.

I think you have it now. But I'd be careful not to think you understand our friend @bbyrd009 that well. I've been reading his posts for a bit longer that you and he still surprises quite often. God made a very great variety of men and while many of us have similarities, how many are precisely the same and precisely predictable?

But your post brings up a big question. Why do some of you guys judge all pastors as being money-hungry men who tickle people's ears with false gospel.

Careful in with lumping us all together. I know that there are ministers or pastors who do what you say, but I have one who is most certainly not that way. I know that he is one of kind because God gave him the mindset to follow Jesus and he has... Unfortunately he is about 18 years older than me. I am 74 so how much longer will God allow the man to continue this work? When he passes from this life, he will nothing nothing material for anyone except for a small inventory for a garage sale.

That's as silly as saying all postal workers are mass murderers because one "went postal" once. Not all pastors are money-hungry men who preach false gospels. Some are pure-hearted people who seek the Lord and faithfully study the Word because they want God to move in people's lives. It's not fair to judge them all because some are bad.

I agree 100%, but that is not to say that no bad apples exist. I always try to take people on one at the time. All of us should do that but again unfortunately, it is easy to decide we know where a person is with God because we heard the person was a Pentecostal, or a Catholic, or a Southern Baptist or even a Muslim. What does that really tell us about the individual?

 

[forrestcupp]

I think you have it now. But I'd be careful not to think you understand our friend @bbyrd009 that well. I've been reading his posts for a bit longer that you and he still surprises quite often. God made a very great variety of men and while many of us have similarities, how many are precisely the same and precisely predictable?


Careful in with lumping us all together. I know that there are ministers or pastors who do what you say, but I have one who is most certainly not that way. I know that he is one of kind because God gave him the mindset to follow Jesus and he has... Unfortunately he is about 18 years older than me. I am 74 so how much longer will God allow the man to continue this work? When he passes from this life, he will nothing nothing material for anyone except for a small inventory for a garage sale.


I agree 100%, but that is not to say that no bad apples exist. I always try to take people on one at the time. All of us should do that but again unfortunately, it is easy to decide we know where a person is with God because we heard the person was a Pentecostal, or a Catholic, or a Southern Baptist or even a Muslim. What does that really tell us about the individual?

I think you and I on the same page as far as this goes. I've just heard Christians on here who really seem to have it out for all ministers, and I don't think that's fair. Sure, there are bad ministers. But just because people have had bad experiences with ministers doesn't mean they're all bad.