Paul didn't write Hebrews

[Hidden In Him]

Well, all his other epistles were addressed to either a particular church or a particular individual. But in this case he was writing to Hebrew believers throughout the ancient world, knowing the letter would be circulated. These circumstances would not have necessitated addressing the letter to any one church or individual in particular.

LoL. Just realized I answered a different question than what you asked.

As for why he didn't put his name to it, it may have been an issue regarding authority. As an apostle to the Gentiles, he may have felt he was not in quite the same position to address the Hebrew church with authority as their apostle, hence the lack of an authoritative greeting where he defined himself as such, as Paul did in all his other letters.

My apologies for misreading your question. I'm supposed to be taking a break from the forums. I'm not all here lately, LoL.

 

[marks]

Well, all his other epistles were addressed to either a particular church or a particular individual. But in this case he was writing to Hebrew believers throughout the ancient world, knowing the letter would be circulated. These circumstances would not have necessitated addressing the letter to any one church or individual in particular.

Hi Hidden in Him,

It seems to me that Paul used to always put his name in his letters, whether at the beginning or end of them.

In fact . . . that reminds me . . .

2 Thess 3:17 "The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write."

Does Hebrews have this?

Much love!

 

[marks]

LoL. Just realized I answered a different question than what you asked.

As for why he didn't put his name to it, it may have been an issue regarding authority. As an apostle to the Gentiles, he may have felt he was not in quite the same position to address the Hebrew church with authority as their apostle, hence the lack of an authoritative greeting where he defined himself as such, as Paul did in all his other letters.

My apologies for misreading your question. I'm supposed to be taking a break from the forums. I'm not all here lately, LoL.

Then stop posting. If you can!

But no worries . . . as you can see I just kept plowing on ahead!

Much love!

 

[Stan B]

Good point, but a question. If Paul wrote Hebrews, why not put his name to it like he did all his letters?

much love!

Why do I sign my name to some things I write, and sometimes not? It is my practice to sign my name to something that is going to be mailed away, but I don't sign my name to something that is going to handed to them personally by me.

I believe Paul's mission was 'to the Jews first', so I suspect that he wrote it while amongst the Jews in Jerusalem. About a third of his book is quotations from Old Testament Scripture, focusing upon the Old Covenant, and Messianic prophecies. So where did he get access to the Old Testament Scriptures? The Temple archives at Jerusalem would be the most obvious source. He wouldn't have access to these Scriptures while he was riding his mule across the desert, or sitting, isolated in prison somewhere.

So, I tend to look upon the book to the Hebrews, not so much a letter, but a Midrash upon the subject matter he was addressing, carrying the Old Covenant across time divide into the New.

Just another speculation to add to the current mountain of speculation.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Then stop posting. If you can!

Not so easy, LoL.

No harm, though. Just that I've got too much going on atm to get really heavily involved in anything. That much I'm still succeeding against...
but just barely.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Hi Hidden in Him,

It seems to me that Paul used to always put his name in his letters, whether at the beginning or end of them.

In fact . . . that reminds me . . .

2 Thess 3:17 "The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write."

Does Hebrews have this?

Much love!

Certainly true at the time he wrote it and for the next decade, but this may be an issue of dating. 2nd Thessalonians is his second earliest letter, written around 52 A.D. Hebrews, however, is one of his last, if not THE last epistle he wrote (if he wrote it), dating to 63 A.D., and his only letter addressed to the Hebrews.

 

[GodsGrace]

I've read a bit of the Early Church Writers, not Fathers, no one is the father of the church like that.

I like to remind that these are the Extant Early Church Writings, and not necessarily all the early church writings, so, how representitive they really are is up for question.

There may have been other writings which we do not have.

I've ready many things in their writings that I think really miss the point of Scripture. The first that comes to mind is Ireneaes and his church hierarchy.

Much love!

Well marks,
There's some things I'm not sure about...
There's some things I'm sure about...

They are called The Early Church Fathers....abbreviated ECFs.

A writer could be anyone...
A father is the head of something....
the one who is responsible...
the one who teaches those that know less...
the one who keeps the group together...

If you're a father...you'll know what I mean.

And if you think they miss the point of scripture....what can I say.
Find me something an ECF said that misses the scripture.

I haven't yet.

 

[marks]

Well marks,
There's some things I'm not sure about...
There's some things I'm sure about...

They are called The Early Church Fathers....abbreviated ECFs.

A writer could be anyone...
A father is the head of something....
the one who is responsible...
the one who teaches those that know less...
the one who keeps the group together...

If you're a father...you'll know what I mean.

And if you think they miss the point of scripture....what can I say.
Find me something an ECF said that misses the scripture.

I haven't yet.

Jesus said to call no man father. I don't think He meant dads and their children, I think He had this very thing in mind. These writers are not the fathers of the church. The Apostles built upon Christ.

I'm not really wanting to start cataloging their writings, I've read much, and much doesn't seem to fit. But that aside, the fact is, we have no idea whether these writings truly represent mainstream thought at the time.

We know that much literature of that sort was destroyed over the centuries, and we simply cannot know what there was that we no longer have.

much love!

 

[Stan B]

Jesus said to call no man father. I don't think He meant dads and their children, I think He had this very thing in mind. These writers are not the fathers of the church. The Apostles built upon Christ.

I'm not really wanting to start cataloging their writings, I've read much, and much doesn't seem to fit. But that aside, the fact is, we have no idea whether these writings truly represent mainstream thought at the time.

We know that much literature of that sort was destroyed over the centuries, and we simply cannot know what there was that we no longer have.

much love!

You are obviously disparaging something of which you declare you have absolutely zero knowledge.

I am the exact opposite of you. I have an insatiable desire to learn! To that end, many years ago, I acquired the complete 38 volume set of the Early Church Fathers, Nicene Fathers and Post Nicene Fathers at a cost of many thousands of dollars, some 50 years ago, which was a significant sacrifice back in those days! But I have never for a moment regretted that decision.

 

[prism]

My vote is that it is the Holy Spirit Who is the true Author of Hebrews

 

[GodsGrace]

You are obviously disparaging something of which you declare you have absolutely zero knowledge.

I am the exact opposite of you. I have an insatiable desire to learn! To that end, many years ago, I acquired the complete 38 volume set of the Early Church Fathers, Nicene Fathers and Post Nicene Fathers at a cost of many thousands of dollars, some 50 years ago, which was a significant sacrifice back in those days! But I have never for a moment regretted that decision.

Many feel as @marks does....so did I many years ago.
There's a 10 volume set I wish I had but I can't get it here. There's a lot online.
Unfortunately I became interested in them fter I moved here.

They very much confirm scripture.
There were a lot of writings back then that were not orthodox, so a person has to make sure they're reading the ECFs and not some other group.

 

[GodsGrace]

Jesus said to call no man father. I don't think He meant dads and their children, I think He had this very thing in mind. These writers are not the fathers of the church. The Apostles built upon Christ.

I'm not really wanting to start cataloging their writings, I've read much, and much doesn't seem to fit. But that aside, the fact is, we have no idea whether these writings truly represent mainstream thought at the time.

We know that much literature of that sort was destroyed over the centuries, and we simply cannot know what there was that we no longer have.

much love!

You're a smart person,,,I'm a little surprised.
I'm sure one had some idea or other that may sound strange to us today....
But persons back then couldn't read...they depended on what others read to them and the reputation of the person writing it.

The church at that time was careful about what circulated since there were unorthodox ideas going around.

So who grew the church according to you?
Jesus...then the Apostles...then?

We have enough to know...it doesn't matter what was destroyed...
You don't even care about what we have!

 

[Philip James]

He added a whole bunch of repressive laws to Scripture I suppose we could designate him at the unscriptural current unScriptural anti-abortion movement: "Thou shalt not destroy the conception of thy womb, nor kill it after it has been born. (9:15?)

Please tell me I'm reading that wrong, and you are NOT saying that the murder of tens of millions of children is ok...

 

[Stan B]

Many feel as @marks does....so did I many years ago.
There's a 10 volume set I wish I had but I can't get it here. There's a lot online.
Unfortunately I became interested in them fter I moved here.

They very much confirm scripture.
There were a lot of writings back then that were not orthodox, so a person has to make sure they're reading the ECFs and not some other group.

The Christian Book industry is dying at a very rapid rate. All of the Christian Book stores in my area have now closed their doors, and the only remaining retailer I know of is:

Christian Books, Bibles, Gifts & more. - Christianbook.com

They no longer carry Early Church Fathers et al, and it would seem that even the publisher, Eerdmans is no longer printing this series. :-(

Another treasure I have is 2 full sets of Adam Clarke's 1832 commentaries, which are no longer available in print.

 

[Stan B]

Please tell me I'm reading that wrong, and you are NOT saying that the murder of tens of millions of children is ok...

I didn't know that "tens of millions of children" were being murdered. I am only aware of one case where a 'doctor' murdered a child after a failed abortion, and the last I heard, he had already served 13 years in prison for murder.

I don't know where you got your information that tens of millions of children are being murdered, and no one knows about it!!! Sounds like a major news item.

 

[GodsGrace]

The Christian Book industry is dying at a very rapid rate. All of the Christian Book stores in my area have now closed their doors, and the only remaining retailer I know of is:

Christian Books, Bibles, Gifts & more. - Christianbook.com

They no longer carry Early Church Fathers et al, and it would seem that even the publisher, Eerdmans is no longer printing this series. :-(

Another treasure I have is 2 full sets of Adam Clarke's 1832 commentaries, which are no longer available in print.

I could get them in Italian, but I can't retain much since my mother tongue is English.
As to Adam Clark...he was calvinist in theology. When I have a question about something I don't understand I like to ask a person I respect...maybe even a couple. Then I match it up to scripture.

I think the Matthew Henry Commentaries, which I DO have, is very beautiful and spiritual but I don't really read it to learn either...

 

[GodsGrace]

LoL. Just realized I answered a different question than what you asked.

As for why he didn't put his name to it, it may have been an issue regarding authority. As an apostle to the Gentiles, he may have felt he was not in quite the same position to address the Hebrew church with authority as their apostle, hence the lack of an authoritative greeting where he defined himself as such, as Paul did in all his other letters.

My apologies for misreading your question. I'm supposed to be taking a break from the forums. I'm not all here lately, LoL.

Why did he name himself in the other books?
Because they were to those outside Israel?

I do believe the Jews liked Paul enough to warn him he was in danger to go back to Jerusalem where he would be jailed.

Other than that, I just don't know enough about this. Paul just doesn't seem like the type not to sign because of fear of disrespect.

 

[Philip James]

I don't know where you got your information that tens of millions of children are being murdered,

"Between 1970 and 2015, CDC reports nearly 45.7 million legal induced abortions."

Taken from here: Abortion statistics in the United States - Wikipedia

 

[Waiting on him]

"Between 1970 and 2015, CDC reports nearly 45.7 million legal induced abortions."

Taken from here: Abortion statistics in the United States - Wikipedia

They won’t repent of their murders,drug addiction, or their pornography

 

[Phoneman777]

Interesting, though, that I'm told Peter gave Mark the info for Mark's Gospel, and Mark omits Peter walking on water, and omits Jesus telling Peter, "Flesh and blood did not reveal this to you . . .", but Does include, "Get thee behind me Satan!" Curious, is it not?

Much love!

If that's true, Peter's motive may have been to humble himself.