Pentecostalism History tidbits

[rockytopva]

But tongues today are fraudulent. Scripture proves so many times over if you would like to debate the issue.

But you do not know that in every case.

 

[Dave L]

But you do not know that in every case.

Scripture is uniform in its presentation. One reason you do not speak in tongues is because they only came through an Apostle's hands besides the two outpourings. You add to scripture claiming otherwise.

 

[Helen]

God called us to be wise master builders not demolition workers in tearing down brothers and sisters who believe.different than us.. so i ask WHAT ARE WE DOING . the woman did all that she could her act of worship

Excellent and well said.

I strongly believe those who come against the work of God, which it was..and come against things that they personally do not even understand...will find On That Day...a back seat is reserved for them..

If a person does not understand the workings of the Holy Spirit...wisdom is the keep ones mouth SHUT.

Dave L hasn't even got the wisdom of the Pharisees which also stood against the work of God's Spirit...in trying to shut the mouths of the apostles.
And one very wise Pharisee =

Acts 5:34 Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel,........

38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God. "
40 And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go."

Dave and all the other nay-sayers here, obviously have no reverent fear or wisdom on these things....
Yet we have threads about "blasphemy against God's Holy Spirit"

Dave...you are without a clue...and stand on very dangerous shaky ground.

 

[Helen]

Dave..you want to "debate an issue" that YOU are fearful of and do not even understand!!!
How crazy is that!

Your total nakedness is showing....

 

[Dave L]

Excellent and well said.

I strongly believe those who come against the work of God, which it was..and come against things that they personally do not even understand...will find On That Day...a back seat is reserved for them..

If a person does not understand the workings of the Holy Spirit...wisdom is the keep ones mouth SHUT.

Dave L hasn't even got the wisdom of the Pharisees which also stood against the work of God's Spirit...in trying to shut the mouths of the apostles.
And one very wise Pharisee =

Acts 5:34 Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel,........

38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God. "
40 And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go."

Dave and all the other nay-sayers here, obviously have no reverent fear or wisdom on these things....
Yet we have threads about "blasphemy against God's Holy Spirit"

Dave...you are without a clue...and stand on very dangerous shaky ground.

I stand on Scripture alone. I do not chase voices in my head or anyone elses' and try to convince myself it is God speaking.

 

[Dave L]

Dave..you want to "debate an issue" that YOU are fearful of and do not even understand!!!
How crazy is that!

Your total nakedness is showing....

Just saying, we need to prove our point from scripture, not sentiment.

 

[rockytopva]

Scripture is uniform in its presentation. One reason you do not speak in tongues is because they only came through an Apostle's hands besides the two outpourings. You add to scripture claiming otherwise.

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. - Mark 16:17-18

 

[rockytopva]

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. - Mark 16:17-18

The signs are for those who believe, as you do not believe, so they are not for you.

 

[Dave L]

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. - Mark 16:17-18

They did until Scripture replaced tongues. And radical Pentecostals replaced metaphor with real snakes.

 

[Dave L]

The signs are for those who believe, as you do not believe, so they are not for you.

You do not believe scripture so you can still toy with the idea.

 

[rockytopva]

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? - Acts 10

 

[Dave L]

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? - Acts 10

This was one of two outpourings besides which tongues only came through an apostle's hands.

 

[Helen]

I stand on Scripture alone. I do not chase voices in my head or anyone elses' and try to convince myself it is God speaking.

You stand on nothing...look down, there is nothing under you...you have proved over and over how much you twist the scripture to match your fear of any spiritual work of God.

You have blinded yourself by all your twisting of God's word.

Not only do you hold your fear for yourself...you post your fear here for all to see. People always fear what they cannot understand with their own mind.
They think they can trust their own reasoning.
That is what this thread is all about...

But shame on you, trying to lay your fears and biases on others ...be wise and just keep you mouth shut. ( and go get on your knees and tell the Holy Spirit how sorry you are..and read the wise words of Gamaliel in Acts 5 ..lest you find yourself fighting against GOD..) Take care..

 

[rockytopva]

The Pentecostal Holiness church was a wonderful church. In the 1900's there were plenty of evangelist and revivals. It used to be that they would require a church in their organization to have so many revivals in a year. I wish we would have kept those ways. It is hard to find good evangelist in this day and time. As I have experienced so much of the Holy Spirit in this church, I would not even think of saying anything bad about their ways.

 

[rockytopva]

You stand on nothing...look down, there is nothing under you...you have proved over and over how much you twist the scripture to match your fear of any spiritual work of God.

You have blinded yourself by all your twisting of God's word.

Not only do you hold your fear for yourself...you post your fear here for all to see. People always fear what they cannot understand with their own mind.
They think they can trust their own reasoning.
That is what this thread is all about...

But shame on you, trying to lay your fears and biases on others ...be wise and just keep you mouth shut. ( and go get on your knees and tell the Holy Spirit how sorry you are..and read the wise words of Gamaliel in Acts 5 ..lest you find yourself fighting against GOD..) Take care..

I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: - 1 Corinthians 14:18

I also thank my God for the spiritual blessings I received while attending the many Pentecostal Holiness revivals growing up. Without which I probably would have ended up like DaveL.

 

[Dave L]

You stand on nothing...look down, there is nothing under you...you have proved over and over how much you twist the scripture to match your fear of any spiritual work of God.

You have blinded yourself by all your twisting of God's word.

Not only do you hold your fear for yourself...you post your fear here for all to see. People always fear what they cannot understand with their own mind.
They think they can trust their own reasoning.
That is what this thread is all about...

But shame on you, trying to lay your fears and biases on others ...be wise and just keep you mouth shut. ( and go get on your knees and tell the Holy Spirit how sorry you are..and read the wise words of Gamaliel in Acts 5 ..lest you find yourself fighting against GOD..) Take care..

If I do not stand on scripture alone, use scripture, not opinion, to prove I do not.

 

[Helen]

If I do not stand on scripture alone, use scripture, not opinion, to prove I do not.

No point at all...you just twist them.
I quoted from Cor 13 , but you said that tongues and gifts had ceased ..Paul says just he opposite...he says WHEN that which is perfect is come...there is ONE Perfect...and He has not come since Paul wrote that.

Yet you still maintain and argue that it has all ceased.

So anyone here quoting scripture to you is a waste of time...you just twist it in your foolishness.

You life could be so much bigger Dave.

 

[Dave L]

No point at all...you just twist them.
I quoted from Cor 13 , but you said that tongues and gifts had ceased ..Paul says just he opposite...he says WHEN that which is perfect is come...there is ONE Perfect...and He has not come since Paul wrote that.

Yet you still maintain and argue that it has all ceased.

So anyone here quoting scripture to you is a waste of time...you just twist it in your foolishness.

You life could be so much bigger Dave.

The perfect is scripture (do you think scripture is perfect/complete?). Tongues were fragments, when collected we no longer saw through a glass darkly. But now face to face.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The perfect is scripture (do you think scripture is perfect/complete?). Tongues were fragments, when collected we no longer saw through a glass darkly. But now face to face.

See how he twists scripture?

DaveL: But now face to face.
Bible: but then face to face.

Even with the Bible now in our hands we STILL see God as through a dark glass. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many interpretations that are dead wrong. But when we are in His presence (those who keep His Word having the fear of the Lord, and don't twist it,) we will KNOW God, even as He knows us now. Careful, Dave! You are walking on quicksand.

 

[Helen]

See how he twists scripture?

DaveL: But now face to face.
Bible: but then face to face.

Good catch there...

< Dave L: But now face to face.
Bible: but then face to face. >

Dave does it all the time...and I am beginning to believe that he has so brainwashed himself , and built a wall of protection against Pentecost around himself so high , that he does actually read it through his own filter system...and not only reads it 'his way' but 100% believe that is what it says.

Much like myself with the KJV
After 58years of reading it and learning it....whenever I TRY to read another translation my brain just flips it back into KJV in my head.

So, I am beginning to think that this is where Dave is...he does only see it as 'he' believes it to be. He can no longer read it with an open heart.

So I am giving him a rest from my nagging and trying to save him from himself. The wall is too high. Only he can take it down.