Pentecostalism: The Glorification of the Flesh

[Big Boy Johnson]

Their focus should be on Jesus Christ, his life, his death, his resurrection, instead it is about their marvelous subjective experience.

So they never mention Jesus at all?

And they don't even own bibles at all?

 

[Robert Pate]

So they never mention Jesus at all?

And they don't even own bibles at all?

What are they focused on. Robert D. Brinsmead once said. "They are like children that have just discovered their belly button".

 

[amadeus]

What are they focused on. Robert D. Brinsmead once said. "They are like children that have just discovered their belly button".

And yet for all of their apparent shortcomings they taught me to read the Bible for myself for the first time in my life.

 

[Robert Pate]

And yet for all of their apparent shortcomings they taught me to read the Bible for myself for the first time in my life.

They also taught me how to do street witnessing on the streets of Los Angeles.

 

[amadeus]

They also taught me how to do street witnessing on the streets of Los Angeles.

My point simply comes back to the old saying of being careful not to throw out the baby with the bathwater. There may be some good that really is worth saving. Do any of us know of any churches or church groups that are without spot or wrinkle or any such thing?

 

[Robert Pate]

My point simply comes back to the old saying of being careful not to throw out the baby with the bathwater. There may be some good that really is worth saving. Do any of us know of any churches or church groups that are without spot or wrinkle or any such thing?

Christians are sinners saved by grace. We are not totally sanctified yet and only have the first fruits of the Spirit, Romans 8:23.

 

[amadeus]

Christians are sinners saved by grace. We are not totally sanctified yet and only have the first fruits of the Spirit, Romans 8:23.

If that is true of us, it should then also be true of others wherever they are physically with God still working on them. Let us be slow to criticize too harshly all of those we do not completely know and understand. God does know and understand.

 

[Robert Pate]

If that is true of us, it should then also be true of others wherever they are physically with God still working on them. Let us be slow to criticize too harshly all of those we do not completely know and understand. God does know and understand.

I had a friend that died, he said that Pentecostal Christians were immature Christians. I think that describes them very well. Paul might have called them carnal, 1 Corinthians 3:1-15.

 

[amadeus]

I had a friend that died, he said that Pentecostal Christians were immature Christians. I think that describes them very well. Paul might have called them carnal, 1 Corinthians 3:1-15.

All of us who know less than all God has provided are immature in a measure for certain.

Anyone who sets himself and the ways of man in front of God may also be carnal...

But I knew and know a lot of individual Pentecostals who most definitely were/are not carnal. Generalizing is not a good thing. God, I believe, is looking at each heart rather than at each congregation or at each denomination.

 

[Robert Pate]

All of us who know less than all God has provided are immature in a measure for certain.

Anyone who sets himself and the ways of man in front of God may also be carnal...

But I knew and know a lot of individual Pentecostals who most definitely were/are not carnal. Generalizing is not a good thing. God, I believe, is looking at each heart rather than at each congregation or at each denomination.

Pentecostals have turned Acts chapter 2 into a religion. It was the Gospel coming into the world in the power of the Holy Spirit, Not the Spirit coming into the world. Pentecostalism is a denial of the Gospel and justification by faith. Jesus has done it all and he did it perfectly. Christians rest in him and not in their subjective religious experiences.

 

[amadeus]

Pentecostals have turned Acts chapter 2 into a religion. It was the Gospel coming into the world in the power of the Holy Spirit, Not the Spirit coming into the world. Pentecostalism is a denial of the Gospel and justification by faith. Jesus has done it all and he did it perfectly. Christians rest in him and not in their subjective religious experiences.

Well I guess you know all of the answers. I won't argue against your knowledge. Have a good day.

 

[Robert Pate]

Well I guess you know all of the answers. I won't argue against your knowledge. Have a good day.

I don't know all of the answers, but I do know what is of the Spirit. Pentecostalism is not of the Spirit, It is of the flesh.

 

[rockytopva]

I used to follow the late Pentecostal evangelist RW Schambach (who claimed every hair on his head was Pentecostal or he would pull it out!) and especially tune in Saturday night to listen in to all those wonderful testimonies of healing. Knowing his hour was drawing near I sent prayer cloths to him asking him to prayer for them. I got them back in the mail a week later with oil dripping through the envelope. I have kept those prayer cloths nearing thirty years now. I used them today and am thankful for the God’s healing power. I used to listen to the old timers years ago testifying, “The Lord has healed my body time and time again.” Which did not mean a whole lot to me back then. Now I must join in with them… “The Lord has healed my body time and time again” with much gratitude and praise!

 

[rockytopva]

To those of us who have actually felt the Spirit and the presence of God through Pentecostal ministries it is all priceless! Wonderful! The Holy Ghost! The Holy Ghost! What a wonderful feeling to be filled with the Holy Ghost!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I don't know all of the answers, but I do know what is of the Spirit. Pentecostalism is not of the Spirit, It is of the flesh.

Is the Spirit the flesh?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Pentecostals have turned Acts chapter 2 into a religion. It was the Gospel coming into the world in the power of the Holy Spirit, Not the Spirit coming into the world. Pentecostalism is a denial of the Gospel and justification by faith. Jesus has done it all and he did it perfectly. Christians rest in him and not in their subjective religious experiences.

The true gospel has everything to do with the Spirit. Robert is gone from this site, so does anyone want to define what you believe is the gospel you believe in? I hope you don't believe that Jesus died only to take away our punishment, so that now when we sin they are cleansed automatically, because "grace" is unmerited favor and covers our past, present and future sins.

 

[rockytopva]

Questions then…
Is Pentecostalism The Glorification of the Flesh?
Are 99% of Pentecostals bad people?

Answer….

Unfortunately we have the capacity to go out of the Spirit into the flesh just like everyone else. If someone is obviously carnal it should be noted… Hey! That personal or preacher is carnal! And to be avoided! In which… I would agree. Fortunately, though, I have met Pentecostals who were actually wonderfully Spirit filled. I would also note that the chances of meeting bad church people are always there in any place we go!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Questions then…
Is Pentecostalism The Glorification of the Flesh?
Are 99% of Pentecostals bad people?

Answer….

Unfortunately we have the capacity to go out of the Spirit into the flesh just like everyone else. If someone is obviously carnal it should be noted… Hey! That personal or preacher is carnal! And to be avoided! In which… I would agree. Fortunately, though, I have met Pentecostals who were actually wonderfully Spirit filled. I would also note that the chances of meeting bad church people are always there in any place we go!

Don't include everyone when you say "we have the capacity to go out of the Spirit into the flesh." At the beginning, no. Being filled with the Holy Spirit is an awesome experience, and we stay in the Spirit for as long as we can. That night for the first time in my life I saw a vision and heard God's voice. I still remember what He said. It was seared into me. Another thing that happened was I literally felt a dark heaviness lift out of my body. I now know it was the sin in my nature. We do not have 2 natures as some believe, we are like Adam was when he was first created without sin. He had free will. Even though we are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, there are some fruit that may not have reached complete maturity. That is not going out of the Spirit, but is pictured in 1 John 1:7. While walking in the Spirit, any immature fruit that God hasn't completely matured in us, He will cleanse any trespass caused by them. This is why God tests us through our life to strengthen us. But eventually, our heart completely melts and we abide in Christ through thick and thin and "never stumble," 2 Peter 1:5-11. It takes almost a lifetime to get there, but God can perfect holiness in us, instead of just righteousness from when we were first born again of the Spirit and cannot sin against God's laws written on our conscience.

1 John 1:7
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

2 Peter 1:10-11
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

 

[rockytopva]

Don't include everyone when you say "we have the capacity to go out of the Spirit into the flesh." At the beginning, no. Being filled with the Holy Spirit is an awesome experience, and we stay in the Spirit for as long as we can. That night for the first time in my life I saw a vision and heard God's voice. I still remember what He said. It was seared into me. Another thing that happened was I literally felt a dark heaviness lift out of my body. I now know it was the sin in my nature. We do not have 2 natures as some believe, we are like Adam was when he was first created without sin. He had free will. Even though we are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, there are some fruit that may not have reached complete maturity. That is not going out of the Spirit, but is pictured in 1 John 1:7. While walking in the Spirit, any immature fruit that God hasn't completely matured in us, He will cleanse any trespass caused by them. This is why God tests us through our life to strengthen us. But eventually, our heart completely melts and we abide in Christ through thick and thin and "never stumble," 2 Peter 1:5-11. It takes almost a lifetime to get there, but God can perfect holiness in us, instead of just righteousness from when we were first born again of the Spirit and cannot sin against God's laws written on our conscience.

1 John 1:7
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

2 Peter 1:10-11
10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

If we have folk who have remained in the Spirit... My reply would be God Bless! And the more power from on high to you!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

If we have folk who have remained in the Spirit... My reply would be God Bless! And the more power from on high to you!

Proverbs 23:7 "For as he thinks in his heart, so is he."

Because this proverb is true, one of the craftiest doctrines of demons Satan twisted is "we will ALWAYS sin until we die and receive a new body. They teach that sin is in the body! But Revelation 22:11 shows we remain as we were upon death. "11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”

People mock something called "sinless perfection" but that can go too far into thinking he who is filthy is a Christian covered in imputed righteousness of Jesus, another doctrine of demons. That verse in the last chapter of the Bible could have shown them the last two are true Christians.

Righteousness is Sinlessness from the beginning. Then when Jesus has matured all the fruit of the Spirit in us and we never stumble, then we are Holy which is Perfect. Both are possible in our lifetime IF you abide in Jesus. 1 John 3:24 (Righteous); John 15:3-4 (Holiness)