People in Hell are happy

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ArkangeMikail

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Jesus is speaking in a metaphor. The following is a comprehensive explanation.

I understand, I don't really know if the sacrifice in Eucharist is only spiritual or spiritual AND physical, but I don't think it's important anyway.

The most important is to pray God and love other as we love our self.
 
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ArkangeMikail

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Eternity has 2 destinations.

Heaven
Hell.

Everyone gets to choose which one they will enter.


"well ive heard that not everyone is going to hear the gospel"..

A.) you heard wrong.
I do agree that people gets to choose.

However, if we can only choose in this life... then many will go to Hell without even knowing! Muslims, children dying in infancy, Atheists... ignorant sinners... That would be unfair.
 

ArkangeMikail

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God will be fair on Judgment Day. And He did create Hell Fire. He knows what He's doing. He knows EVERYTHING! Every thought that was ever thought! Every evil word spoken.

Psalm 147:5
5 Great is our Lord, and mighty in power; His understanding is infinite.

He's the real KNOW IT ALL!
If God created Hellfire, then God tortures people. But God cannot torture people because He is perfect and good. So that's the contradiction I'm worrying about.
 

ScottA

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What is the nature of Hell?

Is Hell a place of eternal conscious torment?


Hell is described as a place of darkness, fire, brimstone, where the wicked will suffer forever.

Revelation, 14:11
“And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

If this is true, isn’t it a contradiction of God’s infinite love and mercy?

How could a loving God torture people forever in Hell?
1. God is love and justice and fully good.
2. To punish evil, God created Hell.
3. For a punishment to be fair, it cannot exceed the gravity of the sin.
4. Because human life is temporary, sins are limited in time and space.
5. However, Hell is an infinite punishment for finite sins.
6. If Hell exists and has been created by God, then God is not fair, is not love, and is not good, because the nature of Hell contradicts God’s essences.
7. Either Hell as an eternal punishment does not exist, or God is not fair.

How could a merciful God refuse to forgive people in Hell?
1. God is merciful and can forgive all sins.
2. However, people suffer in Hell for all eternity.
3. People can pray to God in Hell and ask for forgiveness.
4. God refuses to hear the pleas of hellpeople.
5. Either Hell as an eternal punishment does not exist, or God is not infinitely merciful.

Is Hell annihilation, to cease to exist?

Jesus-Christ says only the good people will get eternal life. If so, then sinners will die. If sinners live in eternity in Hell, then they will also get eternal life, which contradicts Jesus’s teaching.

Revelation, 21:8
“But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Why would God destroy what He has created?
1. God is eternal, omniscient and He is the creator. God cannot “change his mind”.
2. What God has created, He intended to create it from all eternity.
3. If God decides to destroy what He has created, then He changed his mind.
4. Either God is not omniscient and can change His mind, or He does not destroy what He has created.

Isn’t the soul immortal?
1. Humans have souls.
2. The soul, because it is spiritual, is immortal.
3. If annihilation is true, then the soul is mortal.
4. Either the soul is actually mortal and it contradicts the doctrine of the immortal soul, or the soul is really immortal and annihilation is false.

Is Hell actually a choice, a “happy” place?

People voluntarily and eternally choose Hell because they know that being in Hell will make them more happy than being in Heavens.

God is good and loves His creatures, even evil creatures, so He lets them free to choose good or evil. God does not punish them, rather it’s hellpeople who punish themselves by refusing God.
Hellpeople, still in the image of God, also get their eternal life.

However, it does not mean that Hell is objectively a “good” place, rather that what is deemed good depends on the person.

Good people love God and want to be with Him. They will cultivate their virtues and be forever happy in the divine presence.

Evil people hate God and want to live on their own, separate from Him. Because God is the source of all goodness, they will love evil and develop many disorders and madnesses. They will still have their own kind of twisted happiness.

On Earth, we can see this same difference between good people and evil people: the first try to be moral and be charitable, while the second seem to love to cause suffering and chaos.

Some people love to take care and save, other love to kill and torture.
Some people try to be virtuous, others indulge in mortal pleasures (lust, greed, pride, gluttony,...).

When the Bible describes hell as a death, it means the spiritual death of evil people, meaning their separation from God; indeed, good people need the spiritual bread from God to be spiritually alive. Without God, hellpeople will feel the anguish of loneliness.
Without God, who gives us life and love, we are nothing, we are dead.

The Bible also describes Hell as fire and suffering. It is actually written from the perspective of Heavens. If people of Heavens would go to Hell, separate from God, they would suffer terribly, as if they were engulfed in fire.
However, from the perspective of Hell, this fire, this darkness, is sweet pleasure.
In contrast, if hellpeople were put in Heavens, they would suffer terribly, being smothered by love and blinded by light.

Matthew 8:12: "But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
The weeping comes from the sadness of being separate from God; because without God, our lives are meaningless.
The gnashing of teeth is the regret; not regretting that they have committed sins, because that would be repenting, and God, who is merciful, would eventually accept them in His kingdom; but regret from being judged. Evil people hoped to commit their abominable deeds without consequences, so they truly regret that Jesus-Christ exists and He is The Judge.

In prison, some criminals are truly sorry for what they have done and are willing to pay for their crimes; but other criminals regret having been caught, they think on how to flee better next time.

What do you think of all of this? Please write your thoughts.
Now there's a catchy thread title!

Go to a potter's studio and see if there is not place for disposal of discarded pieces.
 
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quietthinker

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Eternity has 2 destinations.

Heaven
Hell.

Everyone gets to choose which one they will enter.


"well ive heard that not everyone is going to hear the gospel"..

A.) you heard wrong.
Eternity has 2 destinations
Life or no life

Life is a gift. We do not choose it, however we can choose to end it.
Death (no life) is not life in discomfort.
 
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Jack

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Eternity has 2 destinations
Life or no life
Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Life is a gift. We do not choose it, however we can choose to end it.
Death (no life) is not life in discomfort.
Then why did Jesus warn us of THE FIRE several times? Oh that's right, you reject what Jesus clearly says.

Matthew 13:49-50
49 So it will be at the end of the age.

Dead ahead!

The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just,
50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
 
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quietthinker

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Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Then why did Jesus warn us of THE FIRE several times? Oh that's right, you reject what Jesus clearly says.

Matthew 13:49-50
49 So it will be at the end of the age.

Dead ahead!

The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just,
50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
Jack, you choose to set yourself up for delusion because firstly you willingly do not understand (hear) what is actually said and secondly you choose to interpret as if intelligence were optional.
I for one can not take your posts seriously in this climate, However I'm sure you know that.

Paul uses the term in Romans 1 of 'God giving them over', those who insist on their recalcitrance. In other words, he allows the free rein of the consequences of their choices. It destroys them. I suggest your delusions are taking you the same route.
 

Debp

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I understand, I don't really know if the sacrifice in Eucharist is only spiritual or spiritual AND physical, but I don't think it's important anyway.

The most important is to pray God and love other as we love our self.

We as Evangelical or Protestant Christians know the Bible teaches Jesus Christ was only sacrificed once for our sins. When we take the Communion wafer and the grape juice...we do that in remembrance of what Christ did for us.

However the Catholic Church believes Jesus Christ is sacrificed in every mass, that the wafer actually becomes the body of Christ....which is not Scriptural.


If God created Hellfire, then God tortures people. But God cannot torture people because He is perfect and good. So that's the contradiction I'm worrying about.

God is just and must punish sins. However God is also merciful. That is why the Lord Jesus Christ became a sacrifice for us...so we can be forgiven. God made a way so He doesn't have to punish us.

@Papa Smurf @mailmandan
 
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quietthinker

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We as Evangelical or Protestant Christians know the Bible teaches Jesus Christ was only sacrificed once for our sins. When we take the Communion wafer and the grape juice...we do that in remembrance of what Christ did for us.

However the Catholic Church believes Jesus Christ is sacrificed in every mass, that the wafer actually becomes the body of Christ....which is not Scriptural.




God is just and must punish sins. However God is also merciful. That is why the Lord Jesus Christ became a sacrifice for us...so we can be forgiven. God made a way so He doesn't have to punish us.

@Papa Smurf
God does not have to punish Deb. That idea is a construct which the devil and revengeful man has superimposed onto God.
Punishment is what man does to himself, just look at what is going on around us; Our environment, our politics and our relationships. We punish each other and ourselves. It results in breakdown and death.
Jesus told us he has come to give life; this is his purpose and he identifies the punisher as the devil who has come to steal, kill and destroy. (John 10:10)
The devil has cleverly turned his own attributes onto God and made the pious believe they are God's attributes.
 
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amigo de christo

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I’m not going to entertain the false teachings in this post. When people start creating their own version of God, that is nothing new. Scripture calls it idolatry. Anyone who reshapes God into what they prefer has already turned from the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and is following the god of this world who is a deceiver and liar ~2 Corinthians 4:4. Instead of trying to rewrite what God has said, you need to read it and believe it. We only get one life and no second chances ~Hebrews 9:27. Stop looking for a god of your own design and bow down before the one true God.

What the Bible says about Hell is not complicated. Jesus said it is “everlasting fire” ~Matthew 25:41, where “their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched” ~Mark 9:48, and where the wicked will experience “everlasting punishment” ~Matthew 25:46. Scripture never calls it a place of happiness or preference. It is judgment. It is conscious. It is final. Those who reject God die in unbelief and face the second death in the lake of fire ~Revelation 21:8. Hell is real because God is holy, and He warns us now so we will turn to Him while there is still time.

People try to change what Hell is for one simple reason. Scripture’s description of Hell confronts the heart, exposes sin, and removes every illusion of self-rule. When someone refuses the Jesus of the Bible, they must also refuse the judgment He warned about. So they reinvent both. Jesus spoke more about Hell than anyone else, and He described it with clarity, not poetry: everlasting fire ~Matthew 25:46, outer darkness ~Matthew 8:12, unquenchable fire ~Mark 9:43, and no rest day or night ~Revelation 14:11. When people rewrite Hell, it is because they cannot accept the holiness of the One who said these things.

Scripture says the natural heart does not want the truth. People “love darkness rather than light” because their deeds are evil ~John 3:19. If someone rejects the biblical Hell, they are really rejecting the biblical Christ, because the same Jesus who saves is the Jesus who judges ~John 5:22. A false view of Hell always comes from a false view of God. It is easier for the flesh to invent a gentle god with no wrath, no authority, and no final judgment than to bow before the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob who is righteous, holy, and unchanging.

People don’t twist Hell because Scripture is unclear. They twist Hell because their hearts are unwilling. But the truth does not change. Jesus is Lord, His Word is final, and the warnings He gave are real. Eternity is too serious to build beliefs on feelings. Believe what God has said, because His Word is the only truth that will stand on the day every knee bows ~Philippians 2:10.
exactly my friend .
JUST as ETERNAL LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS IS REAL and all who do beleive on HIM shall be saved .
SO is his warnings . So is HIS every word . As is e very WORD OF GOD ALL MIGHTY .
Too many likes to pick and choose and have no idea that when they do so they are calling GOD A LIAR .
no shoes anyone wants to be in ON THE DAY OF THE LORD either . calling GOD a liar . THINK about that .
 

Jack

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Jack, you choose to set yourself up for delusion because firstly you willingly do not understand (hear) what is actually said and secondly you choose to interpret as if intelligence were optional.
I for one can not take your posts seriously in this climate, However I'm sure you know that.

Paul uses the term in Romans 1 of 'God giving them over', those who insist on their recalcitrance. In other words, he allows the free rein of the consequences of their choices. It destroys them. I suggest your delusions are taking you the same route.
How is believing Jesus "delusional"? You've already admitted you reject the Christian Bible. So why are you in a Christian forum attacking the Bible? Delusional maybe?
 
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Debp

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How is believing Jesus "delusional"? You've already admitted you reject the Christian Bible. So why are you in a Christian forum attacking the Bible? Delusional maybe?

I agree. Sorry to say but this forum has some members with strange teachings. It is a shame they can possibly lead new Christians astray. For instance @ArkangeMikail is a former Muslim so it is important he gets sound teachings.
 

Jack

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God does not have to punish Deb. That idea is a construct which the devil and revengeful man has superimposed onto God.
Punishment is what man does to himself, just look at what is going on around us; Our environment, our politics and our relationships. We punish each other and ourselves. It results in breakdown and death.
Jesus told us he has come to give life; this is his purpose and he identifies the punisher as the devil who has come to steal, kill and destroy. (John 10:10)
The devil has cleverly turned his own attributes onto God and made the pious believe they are God's attributes.
Did you really just call the Bible Satanic?
 

Jack

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I agree. Sorry to say but this forum has some members with strange teachings. It is a shame they can possibly lead new Christians astray. For instance @ArkangeMikail is a former Muslim so it is important he gets sound teachings.
I think "Unorthodox Doctrine Forum" is being too kind. It's actually "Attack the Bible Forum". But I think it's good that it shows how many messengers Satan has. Maybe we can pull some Bible attackers out of the fire!

Jude 1:22-23
22 And on some have compassion, making a distinction;
23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire,

What a WONDERFUL thing, a Muslim being pulled out of the Fire!
 
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quietthinker

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How is believing Jesus "delusional"? You've already admitted you reject the Christian Bible. So why are you in a Christian forum attacking the Bible? Delusional maybe?
You continue to make up stories and misrepresent what is said....but that's your responsibility
Your dogged insistence of this ensures you can not and will not see the kindness of God in Jesus. Instead, your ongoing fear continues to perpetuate itself.....as you spend your energy in an attempt to persuade others to live in the same fear.
 
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Jack

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What a WONDERFUL thing, a Muslim being pulled out of the Fire!
You continue to make up stories and misrepresent what is said....but that's your responsibility
Your dogged insistence of this ensures you can not and will not see the kindness of God in Jesus. Instead, your ongoing fear continues to perpetuate itself.....and you desire to persuade others to live in the same fear.
I know what you said. You reject the Bible and then talk about Jesus. Which Jesus? I don't think you have a clue.
 
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quietthinker

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What a WONDERFUL thing, a Muslim being pu

I know what you said. You reject the Bible and then talk about Jesus. Which Jesus? I don't think you have a clue.
You can be assured your ongoing baiting and lies closes doors for yourself.
 

Jack

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You can be assured your ongoing baiting and lies closes doors for yourself.
What lies? Did you just tell a WHOPPER? I can prove everything I said.

YOU are the one who rejected the Bible, not me!
 
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Debp

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You continue to make up stories and misrepresent what is said....but that's your responsibility
Your dogged insistence of this ensures you can not and will not see the kindness of God in Jesus. Instead, your ongoing fear continues to perpetuate itself.....as you spend your energy in an attempt to persuade others to live in the same fear.

Who's living in fear? Not me. We that believe in the Lord as our Savior have the peace of God. It's a wonderful thing to have one's sins forgiven and receive His inward peace by the Holy Spirit.