People say you can not lose faith, God can't lose you, is that true?

[Ritajanice]

Jerusalem backsliding doesn't change this:

Psalm 37:28 -
For the Lord loves justice,
And does not forsake His saints;
They are preserved forever,
But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.


Those who are truly born of God have received a new nature, a divine nature (2 Peter 1:4) and have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. *These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.*

Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. *Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature."

Corruption (Strongs #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But genuine believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2 Peter 1:4).

Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside. Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment. Judas Iscariot is a good example.

Excellent post!!.....AMEN!!!!.

 

[MatthewG]

Dont battle to much.

Keep your sanity.

 

[ChristisGod]

Hello to you and welcome,

What does the bible say about?

You can quote any passage you want to prove your point.

There are people who believe God chooses you and that is it. Nothing you ever even did to choose.

What are your thoughts about that?

Did you choose to accept God as a reality in faith? Or did God just choose you and you had nothing to do with it, and you are sanctified with no effort in allowing God to work in your heart and mind?

Some people do not even believe they have a free will.

However, whatever you express, you will not be condemned or looked down upon just because you may see differently than myself.

From my perspective, just claiming Jesus, doesn't mean anything. Just claiming faith doesn't mean anything, without works of love.

However ... what does the bible say?

Love to you,
Matthew

God gives believers- His sheep eternal life and no one can snatch one of them away from Him. He does not give them conditional or temporal life but unending, everlasting, eternal life which does not end and cannot end otherwise Jesus and the Apostles promises of eternal life would be lies and deceiving people.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I think people fail to understand what true faith is. and like so many church words have made a religious interpretation of it.

When you come to faith (trust a person) be it God or a parent or a friend or a leader. You follow them.

When these people continue to prove to you that your faith in them is worth it. You continue to follow them

if on the other hand. you learn that every time you follow them, things do not go right.. they prove to you that your trust in them is unfounded.

so people who say anyone can lose faith in God is saying in effect. God has continued to fail them in a way he is not trustworthy.

That is not the God I know. or the God of the bible.

while we may not yet trust him in some areas of our lives.. Those who are his children KNOW whenever they follow him. God is always proven to be trustworthy..

so in the end, If someone claims they lost faith and are now against Christ. I just turn to John

1 John 2:
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things

1. They are those who claimed to have faith, and then left having now rejected christ and turning back to unbelief
2. They were never of us (saved)
3. We, are not like them, because unlike them, we have the anointing of the Holy one, and we know all Things (God is trustworthy)

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

If the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation, then we have a contradiction because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) So in Hebrews 10:10, we clearly read - WE have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE FOR ALL. In Hebrews 10:14, we read - For by one offering He has PERFECTED FOR ALL TIME those who are SANCTIFIED. To go from sanctified back to un-sanctified would be in contradiction here. Context is important.

The reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in verse 29 "on the surface" appears to be referring to a Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't always necessarily refer to salvation.

Strong's Concordance
hagiazó: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Original Word: ἁγιάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hagiazó
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-ad'-zo)
Definition: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Usage: I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify.

Strong's Greek: 37. ἁγιάζω (hagiazó) -- to make holy, consecrate, sanctify

*In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse (and by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul explained. So, the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply meant saved, then you would have to say that the seventh day was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), Moses saved the people after coming down off the mountain (Exodus 19:14), the priests and the Levites saved themselves (1 Chronicles 15:14), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36), the Son saved Himself (John 17:19) and many other things that do not line up with scripture.

In verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to those who were not saved: But WE are not of those who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. Again, those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

So, after considering the CONTEXT, it seems most likely that "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as a professing believer in the Hebrew Christian community of believers, but later renounces his identification with other believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received and trampling underfoot the work and the person of Christ himself. This gives evidence that his identification with the Hebrew Christian community of believers was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer.

The CONTEXT in Hebrews 10 is very clear, HIS people NEVER refer to the UNSAVED! In this CONTEXT, SANCTIFIED is for those who are BORN AGAIN!

 

[Ritajanice]

2 Timothy 2:21 - If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 - And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

John 17:17 - Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

2 Corinthians 5:17 - Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Galatians 2:20 - I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 - But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

1 Thessalonians 4:3 - For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

Romans 6:6 - Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Hebrews 13:12 - Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

1 Corinthians 6:11 - And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

1 Corinthians 1:2 - Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Romans 6:1-23 - What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? (Read More...)

Hebrews 10:14 - For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

2 Peter 1:2-4 - Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, (Read More...)

Philippians 1:6 - Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Exodus 31:13 - Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout

 

[Ritajanice]

I think people fail to understand what true faith is. and like so many church words have made a religious interpretation of it.

When you come to faith (trust a person) be it God or a parent or a friend or a leader. You follow them.

When these people continue to prove to you that your faith in them is worth it. You continue to follow them

if on the other hand. you learn that every time you follow them, things do not go right.. they prove to you that your trust in them is unfounded.

so people who say anyone can lose faith in God is saying in effect. God has continued to fail them in a way he is not trustworthy.

That is not the God I know. or the God of the bible.

while we may not yet trust him in some areas of our lives.. Those who are his children KNOW whenever they follow him. God is always proven to be trustworthy..

so in the end, If someone claims they lost faith and are now against Christ. I just turn to John

1 John 2:
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things

1. They are those who claimed to have faith, and then left having now rejected christ and turning back to unbelief
2. They were never of us (saved)
3. We, are not like them, because unlike them, we have the anointing of the Holy one, and we know all Things (God is trustworthy)

No matter what we go through....we will endure to the end.....as we are his children Born Again!

 

[MatthewG]

God gives believers- His sheep eternal life and no one can snatch one of them away from Him. He does not give them conditional or temporal life but unending, everlasting, eternal life which does not end and cannot end otherwise Jesus and the Apostles promises of eternal life would be lies and deceiving people.

Hello ChristisGod,

You know your entitled to what you believe.

From my perspective which could be wrong;

Yes, It is true that Jesus gives people eternal (age-during) life, ages can end, if a person decides later in life because of doubts that come up in their mind and they surrcome to them, they can leave and walk away from faith, unless God is someone who forces a person to stay.
I do not see the Apostles, Jesus or God as liars, however there is a choice, or does God pick and choose, and that is it? You do not do anything.

Just curious, all in love, and in Christ,
Matthew

 

[ChristisGod]

Hello ChristisGod,

You know your entitled to what you believe.

From my perspective which could be wrong;

Yes, It is true that Jesus gives people eternal (age-during) life, ages can end, if a person decides later in life because of doubts that come up in their mind and they surrcome to them, they can leave and walk away from faith, unless God is someone who forces a person to stay.
I do not see the Apostles, Jesus or God as liars, however there is a choice, or does God pick and choose, and that is it? You do not do anything.

Just curious, all in love, and in Christ,
Matthew

So the question is this ?

Is salvation of the Lord ? or is it of man ?

Who does the saving ?

Who keeps you saved ?

 

[CadyandZoe]

A quick review of the Parable of the Sower will reveal that some people will refuse to believe, while others will believe. Out of the group that believes some will fall away, while others will stay. What made the difference?

Just as soil preparation made the difference between fruit and no fruit, The difference between those who fall away and those who persevere is heart preparation. And just as the farmer is responsible for soil preparation; God is responsible for heart preparation. What is heart preparation?

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

 

[MatthewG]

So the question is this ?

Is salvation of the Lord ? or is it of man ?

Who does the saving ?

Who keeps you saved ?

ChristisGod,

Can you answer my question first before I answer yours?

Thank you,
Matthew

 

[MatthewG]

A quick review of the Parable of the Sower will reveal that some people will refuse to believe, while others will believe. Out of the group that believes some will fall away, while others will stay. What made the difference?

Just as soil preparation made the difference between fruit and no fruit, The difference between those who fall away and those who persevere is heart preparation. And just as the farmer is responsible for soil preparation; God is responsible for heart preparation. What is heart preparation?

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

@CadyandZoe,

Good critical thinking, thank you for sharing.

In Christ,
Matthew

 

[Ritajanice]

So the question is this ?

Is salvation of the Lord ? or is it of man ?

Who does the saving ?

Who keeps you saved ?

Good question..be interesting to see @MatthewG answer.

 

[MatthewG]

2 Timothy 2:21 - If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 - And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

John 17:17 - Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

2 Corinthians 5:17 - Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Galatians 2:20 - I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 - But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

1 Thessalonians 4:3 - For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

Romans 6:6 - Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Hebrews 13:12 - Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

1 Corinthians 6:11 - And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

1 Corinthians 1:2 - Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Romans 6:1-23 - What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? (Read More...)

Hebrews 10:14 - For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

2 Peter 1:2-4 - Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, (Read More...)

Philippians 1:6 - Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Exodus 31:13 - Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout

Rita,

Wonderful scriptures, thank you for sharing.

All the best,
Matthew

 

[MatthewG]

I think people fail to understand what true faith is. and like so many church words have made a religious interpretation of it.

When you come to faith (trust a person) be it God or a parent or a friend or a leader. You follow them.

When these people continue to prove to you that your faith in them is worth it. You continue to follow them

if on the other hand. you learn that every time you follow them, things do not go right.. they prove to you that your trust in them is unfounded.

so people who say anyone can lose faith in God is saying in effect. God has continued to fail them in a way he is not trustworthy.

That is not the God I know. or the God of the bible.

while we may not yet trust him in some areas of our lives.. Those who are his children KNOW whenever they follow him. God is always proven to be trustworthy..

so in the end, If someone claims they lost faith and are now against Christ. I just turn to John

1 John 2:
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things

1. They are those who claimed to have faith, and then left having now rejected christ and turning back to unbelief
2. They were never of us (saved)
3. We, are not like them, because unlike them, we have the anointing of the Holy one, and we know all Things (God is trustworthy)

@Eternally Grateful,

Always good to encourage others, to keep them from becoming unbelieving cause doubts do sometimes come up with life. Anyone who says life is a piece of cake, hasn't had a very hard difficult life, those who have been forgiven much, loves much.

Thank you for insights,
Matthew

 

[ChristisGod]

So the question is this ?

Is salvation of the Lord ? or is it of man ?

Who does the saving ?

Who keeps you saved ?

You cannot choose God, God chooses you. Jesus said you did not choose Me but I chose you.

Gods grace precedes anything you can do with salvation. It is by His grace you are saved not of any works. He does the saving.

 

[mailmandan]

The CONTEXT in Hebrews 10 is very clear, HIS people NEVER refer to the UNSAVED! In this CONTEXT, SANCTIFIED is for those who are BORN AGAIN!

I proved otherwise from the CONTEXT of Hebrews 10 but you are free to believe as you wish.

 

[Ritajanice]

You cannot choose God, God chooses you. Jesus said you did not choose Me but I chose you.

Gods grace precedes anything you can do with salvation. It is by His grace you are saved not of any works. He does the saving.

Hallelujah and Amen!!

 

[MatthewG]

You cannot choose God, God chooses you. Jesus said you did not choose Me but I chose you.

Gods grace precedes anything you can do with salvation. It is by His grace you are saved not of any works. He does the saving.

ChristisGod,

You're entitled to that opinion, and I understand where that comes from.

Okay, so your questions now.



@ChristisGod (edited ending)

Is salvation of the Lord ? or is it of man ?

Deliverance only comes by and through Yeshua.

Who does the saving ?

What do you mean by saving, there are several definitions, and also perspectives on 'being saved'?

In the days that Jesus walked around, he saved people by healing their dieases, he saved people by casting out demons, he saved people from Satan, Sin, the false prophet, the beast. Jesus saves a person from a old life into a new life. However you have to be willingly to call out to him, like the blind man on the side of the road. Remember how the crowd quieted him? Then Jesus heard and came? There is a part of human beings that have to reach out. In that day, also to believe on him, was to be saved from the coming wrath of God. However, there were people who even tasted of the holy spirit and partook but left. Therefore to suggest that we as human beings don't have some type of responsibility does not make sense. The last saved, I know of is being saved not from but saved to - the Kingdom, that comes from having faith, and making the decision to call out like the blind man, and seek God in faith.

Who keeps you saved ?

Holding on to Yeshuas hand, like peter when he walked on water, only to realize the waters around him (the world) was to much and started to drown, but he called out LORD SAVE ME, and he grabbed him by the hand, and they got back in the boat.

All in love, and respect to you, I could be wrong, but this my stance on those things, and no one should believe me,

Matthew

 

[ChristisGod]

ChristisGod,

You're entitled to that opinion, and I understand where that comes from.

Okay, so your questions now.



@ChristisGod (edited ending)


Deliverance only comes by and through Yeshua.



What do you mean by saving, there are several definitions, and also perspectives on 'being saved'?

In the days that Jesus walked around, he saved people by healing their dieases, he saved people by casting out demons, he saved people from Satan, Sin, the false prophet, the beast. Jesus saves a person from a old life into a new life. However you have to be willingly to call out to him, like the blind man on the side of the road. Remember how the crowd quieted him? Then Jesus heard and came? There is a part of human beings that have to reach out. In that day, also to believe on him, was to be saved from the coming wrath of God. However, there were people who even tasted of the holy spirit and partook but left. Therefore to suggest that we as human beings don't have some type of responsibility does not make sense. The last saved, I know of is being saved not from but saved to - the Kingdom, that comes from having faith, and making the decision to call out like the blind man, and seek God in faith.


Holding on to Yeshuas hand, like peter when he walked on water, only to realize the waters around him (the world) was to much and started to drown, but he called out LORD SAVE ME, and he grabbed him by the hand, and they got back in the boat.

All in love, and respect to you, I could be wrong, but this my stance on those things, and no one should believe me,

Matthew

Who rescued Peter when he failed, his faith failed, he sank under the water ?

Who saved him from drowning ?