People that do not Believe in, look and Expect the Rapture will be left Behind!!
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Getitright
Active Member
Enoch,
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. (Heb. 11:5 KJV)
The word that is translated, translated, means to transpose. It means to swap places with two things. After Paul lists a bunch of people and their faith, he says,
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.1 (Heb. 11:13 KJV)
He include Enoch in this list.
We also know that he didn't go to Heaven because John said,
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (Jn. 3:13 KJV)
John said this hundreds of years after Enoch and Elijah. He said no man has ascended up to Heaven.
Elijah,
and smote the Edomites which compassed him in, and the captains of the chariots.
10 So the Edomites revolted from under the hand of Judah unto this day. The same time also did Libnah revolt from under his hand; because he had forsaken the LORD God of his fathers.
11 Moreover he made high places in the mountains of Judah, and caused the inhabitants of Jerusalem to commit fornication, and compelled Judah thereto.
12 And there came a writing to him from Elijah the prophet, saying, Thus saith the LORD God of David thy father, Because thou hast not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat thy father, nor in the ways of Asa king of Judah,
13 But hast walked in the way of the kings of Israel, and hast made Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to go a whoring, like to the whoredoms of the house of Ahab, and also hast slain thy brethren of thy father's house, which were better than thyself:
14 Behold, with a great plague will the LORD smite thy people, and thy children, and thy wives, and all thy goods:1
(2 Chr. 21:9-14 KJV)
1 and 2 Chronicles have a different timeline than what was in 1 and 2 Kings. 2 Chronicles 21 may have been right in the time that happened before Elijah went up in the fiery chariot. It is quite possible (and probable) that Elijah wrote this letter before he was caught up in the fiery chariot.
As for Enoch, was he not a prophet? Therefore he would be included in the body of Christ in the Old Testament.
And also, there is a death that will happen even to those who are raptured (1 Corinthians 15:36)...the old will become eradicated and the new will come.
And therefore, when Enoch was translated, there was also a certain death that took place. But this does not in any way teach that he was not raptured...he truly was translated into the presence of the Lord.
As for Enoch, was he not a prophet? Therefore he would be included in the body of Christ in the Old Testament.
And also, there is a death that will happen even to those who are raptured (1 Corinthians 15:36)...the old will become eradicated and the new will come.
And therefore, when Enoch was translated, there was also a certain death that took place. But this does not in any way teach that he was not raptured...he truly was translated into the presence of the Lord.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Lord Jesus showed His coming to gather His Church is AFTER the tribulation. That's all the proof one needs. Listen to Jesus, not to the devil's children.
Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, which is a direct parallel to the 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 Scripture by Apostle Paul.
Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, which is a direct parallel to the 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 Scripture by Apostle Paul.
God's people will not be here when the judgment of God falls on this evil God rejecting world!!!
Jesus is a wife-beater?
He is going to subject His bride to the plague of locusts whose sting torments men for five months?
Getitright
Active Member
It was approximately 15 years after the chariot event. You can research it. The word Paul chose to use means to be swapped with something else. There is nothing in the passage that says Enoch was rapture into the presences of the Lord. Also, Paul clearly said that Enoch died. John recorded that no man had ascended into Heaven except Jesus. Sorry, but the evidence clearly shows he didn't go to Heaven.
Getitright
Active Member
Davy
Well-Known Member
The Pre-trib Rapture theory of man is a design by the devil's own workers of iniquity, as its purpose is to prepare the deceived to fly away to the Antichrist when he gets here.
God in Ezekiel 13 said He is against those who teach His people to fly to save their soul:
Ezek 13:18-20
18 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of My people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?
19 And will ye pollute Me among My people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to My people that hear your lies?
20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
KJV
The first supernatural one coming to work great signs and miracles on earth in Jerusalem is NOT going to be our Lord Jesus. The first one coming to play Messiah will be the Antichrist, and that is who the Pre-trib Rapture doctrine is designed to lead the deceived to believe on. He will seek to fly them away, thinking they have escaped the tribulation! What a trap!
God is allowing this upon those who listen to man, instead of Him in HIS WORD. If one hadn't studied their Old Testament like they're supposed to as a Christian, they would not see this Ezekiel 13 Scripture about the end. God spread His warnings about the end out in His Word, to see if YOU would read His Word and listen to HIM!
God in Ezekiel 13 said He is against those who teach His people to fly to save their soul:
Ezek 13:18-20
18 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of My people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?
19 And will ye pollute Me among My people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to My people that hear your lies?
20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
KJV
The first supernatural one coming to work great signs and miracles on earth in Jerusalem is NOT going to be our Lord Jesus. The first one coming to play Messiah will be the Antichrist, and that is who the Pre-trib Rapture doctrine is designed to lead the deceived to believe on. He will seek to fly them away, thinking they have escaped the tribulation! What a trap!
God is allowing this upon those who listen to man, instead of Him in HIS WORD. If one hadn't studied their Old Testament like they're supposed to as a Christian, they would not see this Ezekiel 13 Scripture about the end. God spread His warnings about the end out in His Word, to see if YOU would read His Word and listen to HIM!
1Th 4:13, But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14, For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15, For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17, Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18, Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1Th 4:14, For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15, For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16, For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17, Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18, Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
As an Old Testament prophet, the Spirit of Christ was in Elijah (1 Peter 1:11)...and therefore Elijah was a member of the body of Christ. Therefore Elijah (and Enoch) were in Jesus Christ when they ascended; and the scripture is not therefore broken in the knowledge that they did in fact ascend into heaven.
Getitright
Active Member
No, they didn't go to Heaven. As I posted, John said no man has ascended into Heaven except Jesus. He states it plainly.
Before the cross, every soul went to the underworld, either hell fire or paradise. But now, paradise has relocated to heaven. This is the abode of the righteous dead in Christ, including the Old Testament saints. Nevertheless, souls of the wicked dead still reside in hell until the time of their final judgement and eternal fate in the Lake of Fire.
Getitright
Active Member
That's not accurate. A soul is a life. When a person dies they have no life, they are dead. Again, as I said, the apostle John said, no man has gone into Heaven except Jesus. How can if be that you better understand this than the apostle? Dead people go to the grave. They remain there until resurrected. There is no ghost of a person that lives on after death. That is a teaching of Greek philosophy, not the Bible.
To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8).
Getitright
Active Member
I don't know how plain it can be. Actually, it's John recording Jesus' words.
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (Jn. 3:13 KJV)
We, as believers, are members of the body of Christ. So, when Jesus ascends, we ascend.
Likewise the Old Testament prophets were members of the body of Christ, since they were indwelt by His Spirit (1 Peter 1:11).
Getitright
Active Member
The body is the person. The "spirit" is the breath of life that comes from God. It is something of God it is not man. Gen 2:7
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.1 (Gen. 2:7 KJV)
God formed the man from the dust of the earth. He breathed is breath or spirit (same word) of life into the man and the man became a living soul. From this it is clear that a soul is a combination of the body and the breath or spirit of God. Note, God formed the man from the dust of the earth. The man consists of the dust of the earth. God told Adam after he ate from the tree of knowledge that he was dust.
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;1
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. (Gen. 3:17-19 KJV)
Notice, for dust thou art. He didn't say your body is dust. He said, you are dust. You denotes the person. Adam is dust. The man is dust that is animated by the breath or spirit of God.
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