Perfection

[Raccoon1010]

I think the object is to resist the temptation to sin.

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

 

[Bob Estey]

By definition genuine regenerated children of God have TURNED AWAY from sins and idols. Nonetheless, while God gives the born again Christian a new heart and a new spirit, He does not automatically erase the old Adamic sin nature which is called "the flesh". So it is possible for a Christian to sin, but "sin shall NOT have dominion over you".

If you keep your focus on righteousness and good works, and particularly on God and Christ, then you can avoid falling into sin. But you cannot claim to be sinlessly perfect (like 1stCenturyLady).

If you don't sin, then you don't sin. I don't know if anyone of us is there yet, but I certainly don't think it is impossible.

 

[marks]

I think the object is to resist the temptation to sin.

Our two commandments, love others, and trust Jesus.

Much love!

 

[Raccoon1010]

Naturally, if you can't make sense of what somebody is saying then you clearly outsmarted them somehow. Right?

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Perhaps you should read (Matthew 25) again, there is on the left side and the right side of God. One goes to death the second death and the other to eternal life:

Romans 6:23

King James Version

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Matthew 25:34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:...41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

[marks]

Technically, sin is the breaking of the Commandments of God per 1 John 3:4.

And all that is apart from faith. And the good you know to do but don't. Of course, failing to love God in the current moment with all your being, that's breaking the commandment also.

Much love!

 

[Raccoon1010]

@GEN2REV
1 John 5:17
“All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.”

 

[quietthinker]

Oh, but she DID answer you, if only by implication.

But then, who wants to just come out and say, "I've stopped from ALL works of flesh!" Who?

Much love!

Yes :)

 

[quietthinker]

She is sinlessly perfect, no question. That has been her major theme for a long, long time. Even the apostle Paul would need to learn her secret from her.

It is easy to be as ships passing in the night on this subject. Unless 1CL wants to flesh it out further her responsibility is with God which I think it is helpful to understand.

 

[ScottA]

You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Matthew 5:48 RSV

I frequently hear people say that it is impossible not to sin. I know we’ve all sinned but I don’t know why we can’t stop.

The popular reasoning is that "it is a process." Which is not even biblical, but rather logical for people to gravitate to. So many develop a rationale that they are not speaking against the scriptures, and assume the words are meant a different way. That happens a lot with scripture.

The actual reason is that having been born on what appears to be a timeline, we simply can't imagine it any other way. However, the scriptures are correct, even those that appear to contradict. But time dwellers have a problem with reconciling that which is of God against that which is of the world.

For instance, the matter of salvation and one becoming a new creation (old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new) and all such scripture, including those that speak of not being able to stop sinning, are not managed on man's would be timeline, but rather God's timelessness...which is the actual truth.

But where does that leave us? For many/most it leaves us to stop following the truth from God. And many/most have.

However, to explain that truth according to God: Just as "all things have become new", in Him and according to His actual truth, as opposed to our own worldly logic...in that same truth, our sins are also appointed once, just as it is "appointed for men once to die." In which case, means that just as Jesus has referred to those who are not born [again] of the Spirit, as being dead (though it would not appear so in worldly logic) but takes one's whole life to complete, the same is true of our sin-- It is not a process, but rather takes all the time allotted to us. Which is not to say it's okay to sin after one receives salvation and is born again of the spirit of God. Heaven forbid. On the contrary, while the Lord chooses to leave us in the world after the fact, He has left us with the enemy, and for a reason.

Thus, we war daily, and work daily. This we do in His service. And indeed, we should make every effort to please Him. But that doesn't mean beating ourselves or each other up for our allotted weaknesses being brought to light over our allotted lifetimes. God has it covered. That is not the purpose we are to serve.

Nor are we to hear the words of God and interpret them to our own liking against reconciling them all one to the other. Likewise, we should not turn a blind eye to those passages we cannot reconcile and make them a point of argument, but rather seek God and his righteousness in all things--and He will answer.

 

[Bob Estey]

Our two commandments, love others, and trust Jesus.

Much love!

No, those aren't the two commandments. They are to love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:34-40).

 

[marks]

No, those aren't the two commandments. They are to love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:34-40).

1 John 3:23 YLT
. . . and this is His command, that we may believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and may love one another, even as He did give command to us,

Much love!

 

[Raccoon1010]

If you don't sin, then you don't sin. I don't know if anyone of us is there yet, but I certainly don't think it is impossible.

When considering someone's perfection you can read the scriptures on the subject:

Matthew 19:17-21

New King James Version

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

 

[Bob Estey]

1 John 3:23 YLT
. . . and this is His command, that we may believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and may love one another, even as He did give command to us,

Much love!

Yes, we have several commandments, but the two great ones, from which all others stem, are the two I posted previously.

 

[Bob Estey]

When considering someone's perfection you can read the scriptures on the subject:

Matthew 19:17-21

New King James Version

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

I don't consider someone's perfection. I just know that when I sin, trouble enters my life, so I try not to sin.

 

[Bob Estey]

The popular reasoning is that "it is a process." Which is not even biblical, but rather logical for people to gravitate to. So many develop a rationale that they are not speaking against the scriptures, and assume the words are meant a different way. That happens a lot with scripture.

The actual reason is that having been born on what appears to be a timeline, we simply can't imagine it any other way. However, the scriptures are correct, even those that appear to contradict. But time dwellers have a problem with reconciling that which is of God against that which is of the world.

For instance, the matter of salvation and one becoming a new creation (old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new) and all such scripture, including those that speak of not being able to stop sinning, are not managed on man's would be timeline, but rather God's timelessness...which is the actual truth.

But where does that leave us? For many/most it leaves us to stop following the truth from God. And many/most have.

However, to explain that truth according to God: Just as "all things have become new", in Him and according to His actual truth, as opposed to our own worldly logic...in that same truth, our sins are also appointed once, just as it is "appointed for men once to die." In which case, means that just as Jesus has referred to those who are not born [again] of the Spirit, as being dead (though it would not appear so in worldly logic) but takes one's whole life to complete, the same is true of our sin-- It is not a process, but rather takes all the time allotted to us. Which is not to say it's okay to sin after one receives salvation and is born again of the spirit of God. Heaven forbid. On the contrary, while the Lord chooses to leave us in the world after the fact, He has left us with the enemy, and for a reason.

Thus, we war daily, and work daily. This we do in His service. And indeed, we should make every effort to please Him. But that doesn't mean beating ourselves or each other up for our allotted weaknesses being brought to light over our allotted lifetimes. God has it covered. That is not the purpose we are to serve.

Nor are we to hear the words of God and interpret them to our own liking against reconciling them all one to the other. Likewise, we should not turn a blind eye to those passages we cannot reconcile and make them a point of argument, but rather seek God and his righteousness in all things--and He will answer.

What of the church leaders who would rather be popular than to serve God? We all know homosexuality is an abomination, but many church leaders say there is nothing wrong with homosexuality. They want to be popular (at least, that is what it seems to me) and they lead great numbers of people astray. The Lord talks about it here:

[39] You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me;
[40] yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
[41] I do not receive glory from men.
[42] But I know that you have not the love of God within you.
[43] I have come in my Father's name, and you do not receive me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive.
[44] How can you believe, who receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? John 5:39-44 RSV

 

[quietthinker]

I don't consider someone's perfection. I just know that when I sin, trouble enters my life, so I try not to sin.

thats not a bad reason to stay clear of it Bob

 

[ScottA]

What of the church leaders who would rather be popular than to serve God? We all know homosexuality is an abomination, but many church leaders say there is nothing wrong with homosexuality. They want to be popular (at least, that is what it seems to me) and they lead great numbers of people astray. The Lord talks about it here:

[39] You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me;
[40] yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
[41] I do not receive glory from men.
[42] But I know that you have not the love of God within you.
[43] I have come in my Father's name, and you do not receive me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive.
[44] How can you believe, who receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? Matthew 5:39-44 RSV

We cannot say that such things are right, okay, or that there is nothing wrong with it. Those leaders will answer to God.

But do consider, that one sin does not rank as more than another. Each is sin, for which it is appointed once for men to die. Therefore, if we witness sin (as in homosexuality), it is no better or worse than any other sin, with God, But the greater the offense upon those who are led astray, the more harshly God will anguish in the judgement.

Incidentally, the sin of homosexuality...is more importantly against God. To go against God's direction that "a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh", is a commandment regarding the bride and the Bridegroom. Which is to say, if it is not followed accordingly (as a man and his wife, a man and a woman), the meaning of a man with a man or a woman with a woman, is to become one without God. Such life decisions need not be forever...but they might be.

 

[marks]

We cannot say that such things are right, okay, or that there is nothing wrong with it. Those leaders will answer to God.

But do consider, that one sin does not rank as more than another. Each is sin, for which it is appointed once for men to die. Therefore, if we witness sin (as in homosexuality), it is no better or worse than any other sin, with God, But the greater the offense upon those who are led astray, the more harshly God will anguish in the judgement.

Incidentally, the sin of homosexuality...is more importantly against God. To go against God's direction that "a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh", is a commandment regarding the bride and the Bridegroom. Which is to say, if it is not followed accordingly (as a man and his wife, a man and a woman), the meaning of a man with a man or a woman with a woman, is to become one without God. Such life decisions need not be forever...but they might be.

God ordained marriage to be a picture of His intended relationship with us, and marriage outside of His design perverts that picture.

Much love!

 

[Bob Estey]

We cannot say that such things are right, okay, or that there is nothing wrong with it. Those leaders will answer to God.

But do consider, that one sin does not rank as more than another. Each is sin, for which it is appointed once for men to die. Therefore, if we witness sin (as in homosexuality), it is no better or worse than any other sin, with God, But the greater the offense upon those who are led astray, the more harshly God will anguish in the judgement.

Incidentally, the sin of homosexuality...is more importantly against God. To go against God's direction that "a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh", is a commandment regarding the bride and the Bridegroom. Which is to say, if it is not followed accordingly (as a man and his wife, a man and a woman), the meaning of a man with a man or a woman with a woman, is to become one without God. Such life decisions need not be forever...but they might be.

We cannot say that such things are right, okay, or that there is nothing wrong with it. Those leaders will answer to God.

But do consider, that one sin does not rank as more than another. Each is sin, for which it is appointed once for men to die. Therefore, if we witness sin (as in homosexuality), it is no better or worse than any other sin, with God, But the greater the offense upon those who are led astray, the more harshly God will anguish in the judgement.

Incidentally, the sin of homosexuality...is more importantly against God. To go against God's direction that "a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh", is a commandment regarding the bride and the Bridegroom. Which is to say, if it is not followed accordingly (as a man and his wife, a man and a woman), the meaning of a man with a man or a woman with a woman, is to become one without God. Such life decisions need not be forever...but they might be.

I agree that the sin of homosexualty is no worse than other sins - though God did refer to it as an abomination. And perhaps this is what you were saying: Homosexuality is less severe of a sin than the pastor who praises homosexuality in an effort to become popular, and thus leads his congregation astray.

 

[ScottA]

I agree that the sin of homosexualty is no worse than other sins - though God did refer to it as an abomination. And perhaps this is what you were saying: Homosexuality is less severe of a sin than the pastor who praises homosexuality in an effort to become popular, and thus leads his congregation astray.

Homosexuality is certainly among the most grievous of sins, more than most, because it is directly against God.

But, what I was hoping to convey, is that sins are the same to God in one respect (that being a death sentence), but different in the judgment. As for us, we do look at them different also, as we should. But because sin and salvation is in God's hands, we can only hold His standard so tightly or run the risk of interfering. Stand against, speak against, answer against, but be careful of overstepping what and why God has allowed it to be so prevalent.

Might I suggest that God has allowed it, first, because it is the manifestation of real sin brought to light. But also, that it is for a sign, that sign that He promised regarding-- the rainbow. For which one might ask, and should ask, "Why now?"