Perfection

[Eternally Grateful]

That's not written to the Believer.

Go instead to 1 John 3:9, as that is written to the born again.

Its not??

 

[marks]

Christ coming again is often interpreted in holiness circles as His coming at the 'second blessing'

Yes, I understand, thank you!

Personally I believe we are to walk in the Spirit by faith, in which all fleshy issues, such as needing psychic healing (referring to psuche) are overcome. I believe that the more consistently we walk in the Spirit, the more psychic healing we will experience. And God is able to impart that healing in a moment. Sometimes He does, sometimes not. I've known both, the instantaneous healing, and the slow growth into greater faith that overcomes such things.

And I know that walking in the Spirit means we are not concerned over fleshy matters, including how damaged our flesh/psuche may be, as we simply walk above that. Spirit is transcendent over flesh. Psuche healing means the flesh doesn't trouble us as much, but walking in the Spirit overcomes all things in that moment.

Again, this is how I think of these things.

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I think you got me confused with someone else.

Yeah me, i wrote those words.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I posted a quote.
So, whomever posted that verse,... there is your answer.

I did

and I ask again, It is not?

 

[marks]

I will pray for you

Because I fear for you..

Your message is not for me.. Because your message can not help me

I think it's a mistake to think we cannot live free from the consciousness of sin, not committing any sins we are aware of. I don't think we will be qualified to claim a complete sinlessness, but I believe we don't have to commit any known sin.

I think we sell ourselves short if we think we cannot become mature in that way. To walk in the Spirit consistently, and not get all pissy if someone cuts you off in traffic, rather just to give them extra space in case they are in an urgent situation, maybe say a prayer for them, having as our first and automatic response to be concern for their wellbeing, and to then act accordingly.

This is the work of the Spirit in our lives. If we are walking in Him in faith, shouldn't that be what happens? I think so. We only need trust that Jesus has in fact fully reconciled us to God, knowing then that there is no impediment between He and me, and therefore I can embrace Him fully, and can receive all I need from Him, thereby being able to give to others all I have.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

If you are thinking it means we have fully ceased from sin, I question how we would know such a thing, considering what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 4,

1 Corinthians 4:3-5 KJV
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.

So, you have concluded that Paul was sinning, because of a verse that is regarding other people's judgment of Him?

He does not say he was sinning.
He never confesses a sin in his 13 epistles.
And the reason he never tells the believers to CONFESS SIN, is because "God hath made Jesus to be sin for us"..

Let me show you something interesting...

In the Corinthian Church, there was a boy who was having a sexual relationship with his Dad's wife.
Paul found out.
He never told the boy to confess .....
He never told the Church to have him confess the carnality.

There is a reason for this....

Also,

Paul teaches in Hebrews 6:1 that this entro level elementary type of faith, where a person is still wondering if they are a sinner..

He says to get out of that, and dont live there.

Few ever make it out.

Most want to read "that which i hate i do", and then just stay right there, as their idea of Christianity.

 

[Not me]

I think it's a mistake to think we cannot live free from the consciousness of sin, not committing any sins we are aware of. I don't think we will be qualified to claim a complete sinlessness, but I believe we don't have to commit any known sin.

I think we sell ourselves short if we think we cannot become mature in that way. To walk in the Spirit consistently, and not get all pissy if someone cuts you off in traffic, rather just to give them extra space in case they are in an urgent situation, maybe say a prayer for them, having as our first and automatic response to be concern for their wellbeing, and to then act accordingly.

This is the work of the Spirit in our lives. If we are walking in Him in faith, shouldn't that be what happens? I think so. We only need trust that Jesus has in fact fully reconciled us to God, knowing then that there is no impediment between He and me, and therefore I can embrace Him fully, and can receive all I need from Him, thereby being able to give to others all I have.

Much love!

What a great read, brought a smile and a joy in my heart…..

Unto Him be our all, a fellow follower, Not me

 

[amadeus]

@Hepzibah Mt 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect But I cannot do it! Mr 10:27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible. So then ask for His help: Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.” Matt 7:7-8

 

[Behold]

I think it's a mistake to think we cannot live free from the consciousness of sin, not committing any sins we are aware of. I don't think we will be qualified to claim a complete sinlessness,

Where there is no law there is no Transgression.

The born again are "not under the Law, but under Grace".


So, the answer is.......there is no sin found "in Christ", and all the born again are "in Christ".

Does this mean your behavior will be GOD LIKE, always?
Hardly.
But what it does mean is that "God hath made JESUS... to be sin for us"... at all times and forever..

Sin is Gone.
He took it to the GRAVE and rose again, without it.
He does not have it, right now, and neither do any of the born again, who are "In Christ".

and..

All the born again are eternally become..... "the righteousness of God, in Christ".

 

[marks]

So, you have concluded that Paul was sinning, because of a verse that is regarding other people's judgment of Him?

Now that's not what I said, is it?

Much love!

 

[Behold]

Now that's not what I said, is it?

Much love!

Isn't it better to not imply "stumbling" is sin, and just say it is.... instead? If that is your belief?

I asked you what you mean by that, and you didnt respond at all...

Also. Isn't it better to not imply that "sin" is being implied, by writing what you wrote about Paul?

So, lets get past this < and just quote you, and then you can take if from there if you want to engage the questions. @marks


@marks posted..

""""" I don't think we will be qualified to claim a complete sinlessness"""""

So, if that is true, then what did the Shed Blood and Death of Christ accomplish as our qualification?

"made righteous' or not?

So, Are you trying to say, that when you mess up, (Stumble) you are sinning and have to confess it so that God will restore you to "clean" again?

Perhaps you can just be very specific ?

 

[marks]

Scripture says; ‘he that has died is freed from sin’, this is a scriptural truth…

Indeed!! That verse literally say, the one that has died is "justifed away from sin". Having been made righteous in Christ is what releases us from sin's bondage.

The same faith by which we are saved - trusting that we are reconciled to God in Christ - is the same faith by which we have access into the grace in which we stand.

Romans 5:1-2 KJV
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Much love!

 

[marks]

When i talk to Randy Kluth, i also can't get a straight answer.

Do you have a problem with me? You seem needlessly antagonistic.

I haven't made any comment on Paul's life, his behavior, thoughts, whether he sinned or didn't. I'm assuming he was not sinning.

So, Are you trying to say, that when you mess up, (Stumble) you are sinning and have to confess it so that God will restore you to "clean" again?

No, I'm not saying that, and I can't imagine how you've gotten that from what I've written.

So, if that is true, then what did the Shed Blood and Death of Christ accomplish as our qualification?

Are you thinking everyone just has a sudden and complete and true self-knowledge in Christ? I haven't seen that to be so myself. It seems to me that it's pretty common for even Christians to be mistaken about themself. Or others.

Much love!

 

[Not me]

Indeed!! That verse literally say, the one that has died is "justifed away from sin". Having been made righteous in Christ is what releases us from sin's bondage.

The same faith by which we are saved - trusting that we are reconciled to God in Christ - is the same faith by which we have access into the grace in which we stand.

Romans 5:1-2 KJV
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Much love!

Just curious, where do you get the meaning of ‘he that has died is freed from sin’ means ‘justified away from sin’.??

For marks, it means exactly what it says, ‘he that has died is freed from sin….

Marks; this is what our salvation in Christ consists of, Christ took us, that part of us that would willingly enter into the sin that is in our fallen natures to death with Him thereby freeing us from having to obey its lusts…..

It is faith in having been both crucified and raised to a new life in Him that frees one from the sin that dwells in….

But continue pursuing Him as He reveals Himself to you….

For you are certainly a blessing, a fellow believer, Not me

 

[Behold]

Do you have a problem with me? You seem needlessly antagonistic.

I haven't made any comment on Paul's life, his behavior, thoughts, whether he sinned or didn't. I'm assuming he was not sinning.

Actually I dont "seem" anything other then myself, Brother Marks.
Im very direct. very energetic, ... thats just my personality.

And, Im just talking to you about your posts...
I keep asking you "what do you MEAN", and you keep saying...>"well, i dont mean that".. but then you dont explain it.
Its really that simple.

Im just asking you to clarify a few of your posts..

This one, for example., as you are questioning how you can know that you have fully ceased from sin, based on a verse you posted, that is regarding Paul talking about people judging Him.

So, that is not connected, and im trying to get you to connect it, so that i can understand what you are trying to prove.

Its like when ive asked you about "stumble'.... as you used the Grk and ect.... to try to prove "continuing" situation for a born again Christian.
Are you saying that is continuing to SIN? as "Stumble?
You wont reply, and trust me, im not being antagonistic, when i have to keep asking you.
Understand?

Want to try now?

@marks

"""""If you are thinking it means we have fully ceased from sin, I question how we would know such a thing, considering what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 4,""""

1 Corinthians 4:3-5 KJV
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.

 

[marks]

Just curious, where do you get the meaning of ‘he that has died is freed from sin’ means ‘justified away from sin’.??

For marks, it means exactly what it says, ‘he that has died is freed from sin….

Marks; this is what our salvation in Christ consists of, Christ took us, that part of us that would willingly enter into the sin that is in our fallen natures to death with Him thereby freeing us from having to obey its lusts…..

It is faith in having been both crucified and raised to a new life in Him that frees one from the sin that dwells in….

But continue pursuing Him as He reveals Himself to you….

You are certainly a blessing, a fellow believer, Not me

It's the word that's used there.



I don't believe this changes the meaning or translation, but does give us more understanding of what God did.

Romans 6:5-8 KJV
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

I think the idea here is that our old man being crucified with Him is being linked to receiving His righteousness, that is, being justified, made righteous. And having been made righteous, this is our freedom from sin.

Romans 6:11-12 KJV
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

We've died to sin, and we've come alive to God, and for this reason we are to not let sin rule in our bodies, so that we obey it's lusts.

Romans 6:17-18 KJV
17) But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18) Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Here, "free" is from a different word that speaks more of our freedom to come and go. Freedom of movement, so we don't have to sin.

In the first sense, we are made righteous, and therefore don't have to sin. Or, as I was recently reminded, in fact this passage shows our separation from sin through justification found in joining Jesus Christ in His death. The one who had died is justified away from sin.

In the second sense, we are set at liberty, and therefore don't have to sin. These are really one and the same, I don't think you can separate the concepts. Nor can this be separated from the most foundational truth, that when we are baptized into Christ, we are united to Him, and become alive in Him. He is our righteousness, He supplies all we need for Spirit life.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

In the first sense, we are made righteous, and therefore don't have to sin.

Actually that means we dont have any sin

There is no sin found in "righteousness" and all the born again are become "The righteousness of God, in Christ".

You can't 'have sin" and be Born again, as the born again are joined to God, and He does not join Himself to sin.

A.) The blood atonement has dealt with all sin, forever, otherwise God would be joined to sinners, later on.

That's not the case....because...

= "God hath made Jesus to be sin for us."" as "the one time eternal sacrifice for sin".

The born again are beyond.. ."sin shall have no dominion over you", as the born again are .. "The RIGHTEOUSNESS of GOD..... In Christ".

Today, and forever.

A.) No sin found there.

The reason that 2 Corinthians 5:19 and John 3:17 teach that God does not charge sin to the born again, is because "God hath made Jesus to be sin for us"..

Its gone.

 

[marks]

Actually I dont "seem" anything other then myself, Brother Marks.

Then I'll drop that. You've been needlessly antagonistic, making incorrect assumptions about things of which I've not written.

And, Im just talking to you about your posts...
I keep asking you "what do you MEAN", and you keep saying...>"well, i dont mean that".. but then you dont explain it.
Its really that simple.

Im just asking you to clarify a few of your posts..

This one, for example., as you are questioning how you can know that you have fully ceased from sin, based on a verse you posted, that is regarding Paul talking about people judging Him.

So, that is not connected, and im trying to get you to connect it, so that i can understand what you are trying to prove.

Look at the part where Paul also speaks concerning himself.

1 Corinthians 4:3-4 KJV
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

Paul wrote that he didn't care if others judge him, and that he doesn't even judge himself. And he doesn't think that means everything he does is right, rather, that he defers such judgment to Jesus.

This fact doesn't mean he was or wasn't sinning/walking according to flesh, it simply means Paul defers such rulings to Jesus. And I think we are wise to do the same.

Its like when ive asked you about "stumble'.... as you used the Grk to try to prove "continuing".

I was showing the grammar of the word. Let's not make this something it's not, there is enough of that. Be wise in this.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

Then I'll drop that. You've been needlessly antagonistic, making incorrect assumptions about things I've not written.

You are quite welcome to your opinion, regarding how you feel i have responded to you.

This fact doesn't mean he was or wasn't sinning/walking according to flesh,

So, you are teaching that this apostle was sometimes walking according to the flesh, and sometimes sinning?

I wrote a Thread on Romans 7 and another on Galatians 5:17, where this type of false Christianity is exposed.

Or am i misunderstanding you, as it seems pretty clear that you are implying it.

True, or false?

I was showing the grammar of the word. Let's not make this something it's not, there is enough of that. Be wise in this.

What you are doing isn't wise, @marks.


You were showing your idea of proof, using Greek you can't read, that "stumbling" is "Christianity"

True or false?

You made a point to state that its "continuing"... the "stumbling" and ive asked you what you mean...
Is the "stumbing" = SINNING... A Christian is Sinning.... "Stumbling"?

And im not being antagonistic, you are just refusing to answer, and so, do i need to ask you 4 or 5 more times.. ?

So, just answer that, and we are good, unless you try to prove that Christian's are sinners, as that seems to be your "stumbling".

Answer when you can..

Thx.

 

[marks]

So, you are teaching that this apostle was sometimes walking according to the flesh, and sometimes sinning?

You aren't listening to me, and you are ascribing your own thoughts to me instead. And going on unfruitful tangents answering your own presumption. I know you won't be happy to hear this, however, it's reality. And in fact I stated plainly I'm assuming Paul was not sinning.

I asked you to be wise, continuing in this manner isn't fruitful. And yes, that's my opinion.

Much love!