Perfection

[Hepzibah]

2 We all stumble in many ways. Anyone who is never at fault in what they say is perfect, able to keep their whole body in check.

James seems to think it possible to be perfect. I am sure the Greek we show it mean we all have stumbled me included and I might again.

How does James seem to show we can be perfect?

John said if we claim we are (present tense) without sin, we deceive ourselves and there is no truth in us.

How can we perfectly love God and all people every second of every minute of every hour of every day 365 days a year. and never put selof over someone else. or even know to do right, but do nto do it, which is sin?

I never understood how people can think this

@Eternally Grateful

Indeed knowing what is right and not doing it is sin. It means that the Holy Spirit is not leading us and if He is not leading us constantly we are out of the Spirit and in the flesh. I know the idea seems impossible, believe me I have been there. It is possible to fall from that state though and it is not easy to get back in. It is a gift from God and nothing to do with our effort.

'Anyone who is never at fault in what they say is perfect'

The apostles taught perfection and so did the early church. It has appeared in the west at times.

Now that verse from John has an explanation. It is taken out of context to say what you wish it to say.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How does James seem to show we can be perfect?

John said if we claim we are (present tense) without sin, we deceive ourselves and there is no truth in us.

How can we perfectly love God and all people every second of every minute of every hour of every day 365 days a year. and never put selof over someone else. or even know to do right, but do nto do it, which is sin?

I never understood how people can think this

@Eternally Grateful

Indeed knowing what is right and not doing it is sin. It means that the Holy Spirit is not leading us and if He is not leading us constantly we are out of the Spirit and in the flesh. I know the idea seems impossible, believe me I have been there. It is possible to fall from that state though and it is not easy to get back in. It is a gift from God and nothing to do with our effort.

'Anyone who is never at fault in what they say is perfect'

The apostles taught perfection and so did the early church. It has appeared in the west at times.

Now that verse from John has an explanation. It is taken out of context to say what you wish it to say.

I try to look at reality

I can be in the spirit driving down the highway thinking spiritual things, and some person cuts me off and almost runs me off the road.

I can get angry at that person, and instead of loving that person. start yelling at him and acting the fool

I was in the spirit. and something happened, and my flesh won over, I know that I should love that person. but I did not. I instread got angry and acted out

I was in the flesh at that time, and was in sin.

 

[Hepzibah]

You are correct and honest. You have not yet been delivered.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are correct and honest. You have not yet been delivered.

I was delivered 40 some years ago..

I am still being molded into what Christ is making me into.

I am not going to puff myself and think i already obtained it. Paul could not even say that..

Sanctification is a life long process, and it will continue until the day we die

 

[Hepzibah]

Thank you @Eternally Grateful this message is obviously not for you. I pray for you.

 

[Deborah_]

How does James seem to show we can be perfect?

John said if we claim we are (present tense) without sin, we deceive ourselves and there is no truth in us.

James is speaking ironically. Anyone who never sins with their tongue must surely be perfect - if there were in fact anyone! He's making the point that everyone commits sins of speech!

 

[Hepzibah]

James is speaking ironically. Anyone who never sins with their tongue must surely be perfect - if there were in fact anyone! He's making the point that everyone commits sins of speech!

Everyone has commited sins of speech.


Proverbs 3:23chapter context similar meaning copy saveThen shalt thou walk in thy way safely, and thy foot shall not stumble.

1 Peter 2:8chapter context similar meaning copy saveAnd a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Isaiah 63:13chapter context similar meaning copy saveThat led them through the deep, as an horse in the wilderness, that they should not stumble?

Proverbs 4:19chapter context similar meaning copy saveThe way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble.

Isaiah 8:15chapter context similar meaning copy saveAnd many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.

Jeremiah 46:6chapter context similar meaning copy saveLet not the swift flee away, nor the mighty man escape; they shall stumble, and fall toward the north by the river Euphrates.

Isaiah 59:10chapter context similar meaning copy saveWe grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes: we stumble at noonday as in the night; we are in desolate places as dead men.

Daniel 11:19chapter context similar meaning copy saveThen he shall turn his face toward the fort of his own land: but he shall stumble and fall, and not be found.

Malachi 2:8chapter context similar meaning copy saveBut ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

Proverbs 4:12chapter context similar meaning copy saveWhen thou goest, thy steps shall not be straitened; and when thou runnest, thou shalt not stumble.

 

[Hepzibah]

Jeremiah 18:15chapter context similar meaning copy saveBecause my people hath forgotten me, they have burned incense to vanity, and they have caused them to stumble in their ways from the ancient paths, to walk in paths, in a way not cast up;

Nahum 2:5chapter context similar meaning copy saveHe shall recount his worthies: they shall stumble in their walk; they shall make haste to the wall thereof, and the defence shall be prepared.

Jeremiah 50:32chapter context similar meaning copy saveAnd the most proud shall stumble and fall, and none shall raise him up: and I will kindle a fire in his cities, and it shall devour all round about him.

Jeremiah 20:11chapter context similar meaning copy saveBut the LORD is with me as a mighty terrible one: therefore my persecutors shall stumble, and they shall not prevail: they shall be greatly ashamed; for they shall not prosper: their everlasting confusion shall never be forgotten.

Isaiah 5:27chapter context similar meaning copy saveNone shall be weary nor stumble among them; none shall slumber nor sleep; neither shall the girdle of their loins be loosed, nor the latchet of their shoes be broken:

Jeremiah 31:9chapter context similar meaning copy saveThey shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

Jeremiah 13:16chapter context similar meaning copy saveGive glory to the LORD your God, before he cause darkness, and before your feet stumble upon the dark mountains, and, while ye look for light, he turn it into the shadow of death, and make it gross darkness.

Nahum 3:3chapter context similar meaning copy saveThe horseman lifteth up both the bright sword and the glittering spear: and there is a multitude of slain, and a great number of carcases; and there is none end of their corpses; they stumble upon their corpses:

Isaiah 28:7chapter context similar meaning copy saveBut they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

 

[Episkopos]

I was delivered 40 some years ago..

I am still being molded into what Christ is making me into.

I am not going to puff myself and think i already obtained it. Paul could not even say that..

Sanctification is a life long process, and it will continue until the day we die

That is not a biblical understanding. You claim to be in the Spirit and then prove that isn't the case by reacting in the flesh. If the person cut you off 10 minutes earlier you would have still reacted in the flesh...and 10 minutes before that...etc.

You can have good thoughts about God and still be in the flesh.

When a person is in the Spirit the Spirit is in control...not the person. The person is crucified. No carnal reaction there.

It isn't wrong to meditate on God and not be in the Spirit. That's fine...as long as you don't claim you are in the Spirit...or attack the ones who are...to protect your own self-worth.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Thank you @Eternally Grateful this message is obviously not for you. I pray for you.

I will pray for you

Because I fear for you..

Your message is not for me.. Because your message can not help me

 

[Eternally Grateful]

James is speaking ironically. Anyone who never sins with their tongue must surely be perfect - if there were in fact anyone! He's making the point that everyone commits sins of speech!

thank you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That is not a biblical understanding. You claim to be in the Spirit and then prove that isn't the case by reacting in the flesh. If the person cut you off 10 minutes earlier you would have still reacted in the flesh...and 10 minutes before that...etc.

You can have good thoughts about God and still be in the flesh.

When a person is in the Spirit the Spirit is in control...not the person. The person is crucified. No carnal reaction there.

It isn't wrong to meditate on God and not be in the Spirit. That's fine...as long as you don't claim you are in the Spirit...or attack the ones who are...to protect your own self-worth.

Sorry my friend

for someone who admits he still sins, and shows his sins in this chat room by bearing false witness against so many people. and not repenting of that sins.

You should not be trying to correct me, the saying remove the plank from your eye comes to mind

 

[Hepzibah]

Why fear for me, for hungering and thirsting for holiness, then following the teaching of the NT and ECF witness to God doing it for me? I am walking in an amazing way with prayers answered and miracles daily.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Why fear for me, for hungering and thirsting for holiness, then following the teaching of the NT and ECF witness to God doing it for me? I am walking in an amazing way with prayers answered and miracles daily.

I fear for you because you will not repent of your sin, and admit you are without hope. unless you are born again.

I fear for you the same way i fear for jews who are trying to get to God by following the law

Paul feared God. and wanted to be holy. just like you do.

he had to be brought to his knees in order to see the truth..

wanting to be holy is great, but it will nto rescue you from death.

Ye must be born again..

that is not a suggestion, it is a requirment

 

[Azim]

I try to look at reality

I can be in the spirit driving down the highway thinking spiritual things, and some person cuts me off and almost runs me off the road.

I can get angry at that person, and instead of loving that person. start yelling at him and acting the fool

I was in the spirit. and something happened, and my flesh won over, I know that I should love that person. but I did not. I instread got angry and acted out

I was in the flesh at that time, and was in sin.

Out of curiosity, if you stayed in the Spirit, what do you think the Spirit would lead you to do, compared to what the flesh did, in this scenario?

 

[Hepzibah]

I fear for you because you will not repent of your sin, and admit you are without hope. unless you are born again.

I fear for you the same way i fear for jews who are trying to get to God by following the law

Paul feared God. and wanted to be holy. just like you do.

he had to be brought to his knees in order to see the truth..

wanting to be holy is great, but it will nto rescue you from death.

Ye must be born again..

that is not a suggestion, it is a requirment

I did repent of my sin twice. Once on coming to the Lord on 23rd September 1973 at 9 pm after an atheist up bringing, when I encountered the Lord for the first time and walked in heaven for the first few weeks. I knew that Jesus had died for me on the cross and I had forgiveness.

Then 17 years passed when I searched for someone to tell me how to escape from my sin nature that made me sin when I did not want to and be like the early disciples. I hated myself as I felt I let Christ down all of the time.

I was delivered from my sin nature, having consented to its destruction on the cross with Christ and therefore was able to walk as He walked in all holiness.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Out of curiosity, if you stayed in the Spirit, what do you think the Spirit would lead you to do, compared to what the flesh did, in this scenario?

As i stated in the comment, I would have loved the person and not Gotten mad.

thats what paul speaks of when he talks about the war. and how he wants to do what is right.. but he does what he did nto want to do.

I don't want to get mad. And after I get on myself for failing (if I do that, remember that was an example)

and its not just for this sin, it is any time we act on the flesh, and not the spirit.. we put our needs and our wants over Gods and someone elses.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I did repent of my sin twice. Once on coming to the Lord on 23rd September 1973 at 9 pm after an atheist up bringing, when I encountered the Lord for the first time and walked in heaven for the first few weeks. I knew that Jesus had died for me on the cross and I had forgiveness.

Then 17 years passed when I searched for someone to tell me how to escape from my sin nature that made me sin when I did not want to and be like the early disciples. I hated myself as I felt I let Christ down all of the time.

I was delivered from my sin nature, having consented to its destruction on the cross with Christ and therefore was able to walk as He walked in all holiness.

thats great

now will you repent that you are s sinner, and are lost because of that sin, and justly condemned and seperated from God based on that sin, and call out to God for his mercy, so he can save you?

or are you going to just confess a few sins here and there and think because you did that you are holy?

the wage of sin is death, the gift of God is life.

do you agree with God and ask him to save you from death? Condemnation. you so rightly deserve?

 

[Hepzibah]

I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live. It is Christ in me, keeping me from all sin with a pure and holy heart. This is Christianity.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live. It is Christ in me, keeping me from all sin with a pure and holy heart. This is Christianity.

Are you born again and do you have eternal life. have you been made alive?

eph 2:
2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast

Again, Have you been born again? made alive?

this is not about becoming sinless. this is about become a child of God. no longer separated from him..

can you answer?