Perpetual virginity of Mary!

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Status
Not open for further replies.

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This is a complete version of the Catholic church defending what cannot be defended. The Catholic church brought this upon themselves by practicing unbiblical views.


Pope Leo X was a greedy man who used fear and intimidation to to obtain from the poor what little they had. Monstrous acts. If you think it's fine to defend this, then I would ask you why? The Bible knows nothing of this. Nor does it know anything about buying one's salvation.


popes are men with fallen human nature, they are not impeccable
There’s fallen human nature in the bias and hatred and spiritual pride presumption and arrogance of spiritually blind Protestants too!
Salvation by the shilling was a lie, part of the black legend!

we can discuss any subject you like or you can ask me anything, I give you proper respect and even thank God for your faith! Mark
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You can't deal with the scripture so you divert. This is what Catholics do. Like their leadership, if they can't find the answer they want in the scriptures, they make things up. The Bible said Jesus had brothers. Nothing else matters.

you can call them whatever you like it still does not make them children of Mary, children of Joseph by a prior marriage or cousins or children of other women as the Bible says Mk 15:40 but not the children of Mary ever Virgin mother of God! Lk 1:34 Lk 1:43
Jacob or Israel had 12 sons all brothers, did they have the same mother? No!
Nowhere does the Bible say anyone is a child of Mary accept Jesus and by the HS! And even luther and calvin defended the perpetual virginity of Mary!
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I rarely respond to pm's. I am not ashamed to post my answers on the open forums. I belong to other forums and I know that pm's can be used to gossip about other posters, etc. I'm not accusing you of this because I don't think that you would engage in that.

im good with that whatever your comfortable with!

does the Bible teach the immaculate conception?

what is the immaculate conception?

do you believe in the Virgin birth and the fact that Joseph is the father of Jesus as the Bible says?
 

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,484
31,633
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I answered the so called reformers are not God! Not apostles! Christ reformed Israel and made a new covenant church that is eternal! Lk 1:32-33

"He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end." Luke 1:32-33

No, they are not God, nor are you, nor am I. We do live for God by faith. You say that the ones called reformers were "not apostles", but do you know that or only believe it? Stand for your faith, but as our friend @BreadOfLife might say, don't state as fact something you only believe with no evidence. We are all ignorant of all the facts except for God Himself. Therefore we should proceed with caution trusting in God alone.

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Heb 11:1
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The genesis verse does not claim Mary is sinless. And what does song of Solomon have to do with Mary?

All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. You would put Mary on the same level as Yawhah. That's blasphemy.

don’t make stupid assumptions! God is uncreated and eternal, Mary is a created human, saved by the grace of God by the merits of Jesus Christ! If you were a Christian you would apologize?

gen 3:15 enmity means total war and She crushes his head, none of his works are found in Her, Lk 1:49 He that is mighty has done great things to me,
Plural, one is the conception of Jesus by the HS, what’s the other?
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end." Luke 1:32-33

No, they are not God, nor are you, nor am I. We do live for God by faith. You say that the ones called reformers were "not apostles", but do you know that or only believe it? Stand for your faith, but as our friend @BreadOfLife might say, don't state as fact something you only believe with no evidence. We are all ignorant of all the facts except for God Himself. Therefore we should proceed with caution trusting in God alone.

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Heb 11:1


And Peter, the apostles, and their successors!

Lk 10:16 He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,576
12,984
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Poor Mary-
the dastardly things Catholic men have invented about her...and the creepy statues.
 

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,484
31,633
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
And Peter, the apostles, and their successors!
Who were the successors of the Israelites? Who are the Israelites today? Who are the brothers, mothers and sisters of Jesus?

"But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." Matt 12:48-50

Lk 10:16 He who hears you hears me...
Who are his sheep?

"To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers." John 10:3-5

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:" John 10:27

"If any man have ears to hear, let him hear." Mark 4:23


John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Amen! So then we should careful about saying someone we do not know is a devil or an unbeliever or definitely not an apostle, right? ...Unless we have had a personal revelation from God about that person?
 
Last edited:

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Poor Mary-
the dastardly things Catholic men have invented about her...and the creepy statues.

the one true church founded by Christ on Peter, the apostles, and their successors cannot create or invent and doctrine only safeguard and teach divine revelation Jude 1:3
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Who were the successors of the Israelites? Who are the Israelites today? Who are the brothers, mothers and sisters of Jesus?

"But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." Matt 12:48-50


Who are his sheep?

"To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers." John 10:3-5

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:" John 10:27

"If any man have ears to hear, let him hear." Mark 4:23



Amen! So then we should careful about saying someone we do not know is a devil or an unbeliever or definitely not an apostle, right? ...Unless we have had a personal revelation from God about that person?

Apostle means one who is sent! Christ was sent by the Father, Christ sent the apostles, the apostles only have authority to send more apostles, there are no self-appointed apostles Jn 20:21-22
 

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,484
31,633
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Apostle means one who is sent! Christ was sent by the Father, Christ sent the apostles, the apostles only have authority to send more apostles, there are no self-appointed apostles Jn 20:21-22
Is the the apostle the one sent by God to men? What of the other four ministers listed in Eph 4:11 as being given by God? Were they not sent? What of the angels, the messengers, both heavenly and earthly sent by God? Were not messengers sent?

I don't agree that only apostles have authority to send more apostles. God is the one who sends whoever He chooses to send and He may or may not use an existing apostle as a vehicle to do that.

I agree that there are no self-appointed apostles. I don't know why you even mentioned that.
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Is the the apostle the one sent by God to men? What of the other four ministers listed in Eph 4:11 as being given by God? Were they not sent? What of the angels, the messengers, both heavenly and earthly sent by God? Were not messengers sent?

I don't agree that only apostles have authority to send more apostles. God is the one who sends whoever He chooses to send and He may or may not use an existing apostle as a vehicle to do that.

I agree that there are no self-appointed apostles. I don't know why you even mentioned that.

act 1:26

Jn 20:21-22 as the father sent me I send you!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Why does Jesus say the successors of Moses matt 23 are to be obeyed?
 

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,484
31,633
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
act 1:26

Jn 20:21-22 as the father sent me I send you!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
Without having at this moment read every verse to which you show as sources, I presume that you find support in them for your beliefs or the beliefs of your church. So do I find support in many scriptures for what I believe, or if I did not, I hope that I would change. You have not however proved anything and you still don't really discuss differences. That is fine. You are not alone in doing that. If you really would like to discuss something, let me know.
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Without having at this moment read every verse to which you show as sources, I presume that you find support in them for your beliefs or the beliefs of your church. So do I find support in many scriptures for what I believe, or if I did not, I hope that I would change. You have not however proved anything and you still don't really discuss differences. That is fine. You are not alone in doing that. If you really would like to discuss something, let me know.

it not my church or your church no man has authority to start a church, the one true church Jn 10:16 was a founded by Christ Matt 16:18 on Peter, the apostles, Matt 18:18 and their successors!

Why does Jesus say the successors of Moses matt 23 are to be obeyed?
 

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,484
31,633
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
it not my church or your church no man has authority to start a church, the one true church Jn 10:16 was a founded by Christ Matt 16:18 on Peter, the apostles, Matt 18:18 and their successors!

I agree that there really is only one Church with Jesus as the Head. We likely will disagree on what that Church is.

Why does Jesus say the successors of Moses matt 23 are to be obeyed?
Who is today sitting in Moses' seat? Who is a Levite or a son of Aaron among us? Who even is among the natural descendants of Jacob/Israel? Who led Israel after the death of Joshua and the deaths of all the elders who remembered what God had done for them in Egypt and in the wilderness?

"In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes." Judges 21:25

And for many, even for most, who claim to be followers of Christ, today, is it not the same?
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I agree that there really is only one Church with Jesus as the Head. We likely will disagree on what that Church is.




Who is today sitting in Moses' seat? Who is a Levite or a son of Aaron among us? Who even is among the natural descendants of Jacob/Israel? Who led Israel after the death of Joshua and the deaths of all the elders who remembered what God had done for them in Egypt and in the wilderness?

"In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes." Judges 21:25

And for many, even for most, who claim to be followers of Christ, today, is it not the same?


Matt 23 Jesus commands the successors of Moses to be obeyed!

Kingdom authority: (keys) vs 13
Kingdom power: (bind & loose) vs 4
Taken from Israel given to the church: Matt 21:43 to Peter, the apostles, and their successors. Matt 16:18 matt 18:18

Peter, and the apostles, and their successors sent by Christ!
Matt 28:19 Jn 13:20 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
 

Spurgeon's Girl

Active Member
Sep 18, 2020
216
98
28
CHANDLER
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I gave you a long post (#312) showing that they were not Mary's children. You haven't replied.

If you want me to reply, then show the biblical (not speculative Catholic thought) verses that prove otherwise. I did read it. Right off the bat, you posted a sentence that has zero to do with the Bible says.

The rest of your post, is just more of the same. The Bible teaches that Jesus had brothers. Anything you say to the contrary that, is not biblical and therefore rank speculation.
 

theefaith

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
20,070
1,354
113
63
Dallas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If you want me to reply, then show the biblical (not speculative Catholic thought) verses that prove otherwise. I did read it. Right off the bat, you posted a sentence that has zero to do with the Bible says.

The rest of your post, is just more of the same. The Bible teaches that Jesus had brothers. Anything you say to the contrary that, is not biblical and therefore rank speculation.
If you want me to reply, then show the biblical (not speculative Catholic thought) verses that prove otherwise. I did read it. Right off the bat, you posted a sentence that has zero to do with the Bible says.

The rest of your post, is just more of the same. The Bible teaches that Jesus had brothers. Anything you say to the contrary that, is not biblical and therefore rank speculation.

we can’t help it if the catholic teaching matches the Bible?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.