Perpetual virginity of Mary!

[Mungo]

And why do YOU believe of all of those factures you believe the correct one?

With all possible respect, I find the following answers to be of very poor quality:
-Appealing to popular vote.
-Appealing to political and monetary power
-"Well, my priest told me so"
-"I hadn't really thought about it".

You appealed to numbers when you said "it is belief specific to 1 of the 10,000's of denominations".
I thought that numbers would suddenly become irrelevant once they went the other way!

 

[theefaith]

Of course she was called his mother, because that's what she was in the flesh. That doesn't make her literally the mother of God. She would have to exist before God existed and create Jesus in order to be God's mother.

I never said she was Gods mother but the mother of God.

God is eternal and uncreated, but Jesus is God and she is Mother!
Lk 1:43

 

[theefaith]

And why do YOU believe of all of those factures you believe the correct one?

With all possible respect, I find the following answers to be of very poor quality:
-Appealing to popular vote.
-Appealing to political and monetary power
-"Well, my priest told me so"
-"I hadn't really thought about it".


^This is an example of "because my priest told me so". Again, with all possible respect, I find it to be an extremely poor quality answer devoid of real faith development. it's the #1 reason I cannot accept the Catholic faith myself.

move never heard priest say so, there was s only one Peter!

 

[Mungo]

With all possible respect, I find the following answers to be of very poor quality:

-Appealing to political and monetary power
-"Well, my priest told me so"
-"I hadn't really thought about it".
.

I didn't appeal to any of those.

 

[Mungo]

And why do YOU believe of all of those factures you believe the correct one?

Jesus founded a Church (Mt 16:18); he founded it on the Apostles (Eph 2:20) and it is described as the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim 3:15)

He gave that Church one set of doctrines (Jud 3); a unity of belief (Phil. 1:27, 2:2)

Jesus made promises to this Church, covenant promises, which he guarantees (Heb 7:22)

Jesus promised his Church would be indefectible. – the gates of hell would not prevail against it (Mt 16:18)

He promised the Church would be preserved from error by the Holy Spirit by reminding the apostles of all that Jesus had taught them (Jn 14:26) and guide them into the truth in the future (Jn 16:13)

He appointed the Apostles with Peter as the leader (Mt 16:18-19) and gave them the mission to take the gospel to the ends of the earth. (Mt 28:16-20)

He promised he would not leave them on their own (Jn 14:18) but that he would be with them until the end of the age (Mt 28:20)

He prayed that it would be one Church (Jn 17:20-23)

He prayed that the Father would consecrate the Apostles in the truth (Jn 17:17), and the Father always hears Jesus (Jn 11:41-42). We are therefore guaranteed by Jesus that what his Church teaches is the truth.

That Church is headed by Christ (Col 1:18), but he appointed Peter to be the visible head on earth (Mt 16:18-19), to be the universal shepherd (Jn 21:15-17) of Christ’s one fold (Jn 10:16). This is the Catholic Church.

There can only be one true Church that Jesus founded.
If you believe the Catholic Church is not that Church then which Church is?

 

[theefaith]

Jesus founded a Church (Mt 16:18); he founded it on the Apostles (Eph 2:20) and it is described as the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim 3:15)

He gave that Church one set of doctrines (Jud 3); a unity of belief (Phil. 1:27, 2:2)

Jesus made promises to this Church, covenant promises, which he guarantees (Heb 7:22)

Jesus promised his Church would be indefectible. – the gates of hell would not prevail against it (Mt 16:18)

He promised the Church would be preserved from error by the Holy Spirit by reminding the apostles of all that Jesus had taught them (Jn 14:26) and guide them into the truth in the future (Jn 16:13)

He appointed the Apostles with Peter as the leader (Mt 16:18-19) and gave them the mission to take the gospel to the ends of the earth. (Mt 28:16-20)

He promised he would not leave them on their own (Jn 14:18) but that he would be with them until the end of the age (Mt 28:20)

He prayed that it would be one Church (Jn 17:20-23)

He prayed that the Father would consecrate the Apostles in the truth (Jn 17:17), and the Father always hears Jesus (Jn 11:41-42). We are therefore guaranteed by Jesus that what his Church teaches is the truth.

That Church is headed by Christ (Col 1:18), but he appointed Peter to be the visible head on earth (Mt 16:18-19), to be the universal shepherd (Jn 21:15-17) of Christ’s one fold (Jn 10:16). This is the Catholic Church.

There can only be one true Church that Jesus founded.
If you believe the Catholic Church is not that Church then which Church is?

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

(None of the so called reformers were apostles)

Jesus said to obey the authority of the successors of Moses mt 23 authority of the keys and power to bind and loose and this power and authority was taken from them and given by Christ to Peter, the apostles and their successors, mt 16:18 18:18 this same authority and power must be obeyed!

mt 28:18-20 all authority is given to Peter, the apostles, and their successors requiring obedience, rom 1:5 obedience to the faith!
And Jesus say to Peter, the apostles, and their successors: behold I am with you even until the end of the world!!!
So the apostles have to remain until the end!

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I didn't appeal to any of those.

Saying "Incidentally Catholics make up over 50% of the worlds Christians so most Christians believe that the Catholic Church is the one that Jesus founded." is appeal to popular vote. I do believe that both of us can agree that God's Truth in not determine by the quantity of humans saying "that's what I think"

<Sentence 1> That Church is headed by Christ (Col 1:18), but he appointed Peter to be the visible head on earth (Mt 16:18-19), to be the universal shepherd (Jn 21:15-17) of Christ’s one fold (Jn 10:16). <Sentence 2> This is the Catholic Church.

How did you personally come to the belief that sentence 1 above connects to sentence 2?
Why do YOU believe that this one church is the Catholic Church and one of the other 10,000's?

 

[Mungo]

Saying "Incidentally Catholics make up over 50% of the worlds Christians so most Christians believe that the Catholic Church is the one that Jesus founded." is appeal to popular vote. I do believe that both of us can agree that God's Truth in not determine by the quantity of humans saying "that's what I think"

No, it's just pointing out a fact that puts your 10s of thousands to one in perspective..
But it seems to be a fact that you don't like

And I didn't appeal to any of these as you claimed
- Appealing to political and monetary power
-"Well, my priest told me so"
-"I hadn't really thought about it".

How did you personally come to the belief that sentence 1 above connects to sentence 2?
Why do YOU believe that this one church is the Catholic Church and one of the other 10,000's?

Because it has a history that goes back to the apostles and particularly to Peter.

There can only be one true Church that Jesus founded.
If you believe the Catholic Church is not that Church then which Church is?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

No, it's just pointing out a fact that puts your 10s of thousands to one in perspective..
But it seems to be a fact that you don't like

And I didn't appeal to any of these as you claimed
- Appealing to political and monetary power
-"Well, my priest told me so"
-"I hadn't really thought about it".

The 4 answers I cited are ones that I find very low quality which Catholics often cite, such as theefaith citing the "because my priest told me so".

Because it has a history that goes back to the apostles and particularly to Peter.

Then why are you not Ethiopian Orthodox, whom also make the same historical trace back?

I respect MUCH about the Catholic Church. If you want, I'd be happy to list a bunch of things. But this particular question and it's lack of an answer satisfactory to me is the #1 reason I personally could not be Catholic. Obviously I do respect your adherence and belief therein.

I also don't see anything to gain by restating our positions 30 times over. Once is sufficient.

 

[theefaith]

Saying "Incidentally Catholics make up over 50% of the worlds Christians so most Christians believe that the Catholic Church is the one that Jesus founded." is appeal to popular vote. I do believe that both of us can agree that God's Truth in not determine by the quantity of humans saying "that's what I think"


How did you personally come to the belief that sentence 1 above connects to sentence 2?
Why do YOU believe that this one church is the Catholic Church and one of the other 10,000's?

one God
One Christ
One savior
One mediator
One covenant
One kingdom
One vineyard
One household of faith
One Lord one faith one baptism eph 4:5

so there can only be one true church founded by Christ on Peter
so there is only only body of Christ!

 

[Mungo]

The 4 answers I cited are ones that I find very low quality which Catholics often cite, such as theefaith citing the "because my priest told me so".

In many years posting on forums I do not find that is the case.

Then why are you not Ethiopian Orthodox, whom also make the same historical trace back?

Really? Ethiopian Orthodox trace their leader back to Peter?
I would like some evidence of that claim

I respect MUCH about the Catholic Church. If you want, I'd be happy to list a bunch of things. But this particular question and it's lack of an answer satisfactory to me is the #1 reason I personally could not be Catholic. Obviously I do respect your adherence and belief therein.

I also don't see anything to gain by restating our positions 30 times over. Once is good.

I'm still waiting for an answer to my question:
There can only be one true Church that Jesus founded.
If you believe the Catholic Church is not that Church then which Church is?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

one God
One Christ
One savior
One mediator
One covenant
One kingdom
One vineyard
One household of faith
One Lord one faith one baptism eph 4:5

so there can only be one true church founded by Christ on Peter
so there is only only body of Christ!

theefaith, you continually giving non-answers to my question is only serving to damage my view of your personal faith.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I'm still waiting for an answer to my question:
There can only be one true Church that Jesus founded.
If you believe the Catholic Church is not that Church then which Church is?

I personally the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints to be the one. This is not because somebody told me it was so (that's highly irrelevant), but the result of much personal study & prayer. I do find that to be Christ's one true church, founded before this world was even made. There are underlying difference in understanding of verses such as Matthew 16:18.

And as I respect your choice in this matter, I also request that you respect mine.

 

[Mungo]

I personally the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints to be the one. This is not because somebody told me it was so (that's highly irrelevant), but the result of much personal study & prayer. I do find that to be Christ's one true church, founded before this world was even made. There are underlying difference in understanding of verses such as Matthew 16:18.

And while I respect your choice in this matter, I also request that you respect mine.

FYI, regarding the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, according to Wikipedia the Ethiopian Orthodox Church traces it's origin to the evangelist Mark, as their first Pope. He was not even an apostle.

 

[Grailhunter]

where does the Bible say only the saving truths are there?

the Virgin birth is there?
Joseph is the father of Jesus is there?
Is the church the pillar and foundation of truth a saving truth?
Is the fact that Peter is the first apostle a saving truth?

So you think that Joseph was Christ's father?

 

[Grailhunter]

Jesus did not die for all men. He died for believers and they were chosen before the foundation of the world.

You are in error times 2....lol

 

[Grailhunter]

Jesus always existed, so how can anyone literally be his mother?

Interesting beliefs and I understand how you got there, put is mixture of misunderstandings.

 

[Grailhunter]

FYI, regarding the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, according to Wikipedia the Ethiopian Orthodox Church traces it's origin to the evangelist Mark, as their first Pope. He was not even an apostle.

The Ethiopian Orthodox Church traces it's origin to the evangelist Mark and the Catholics trace back to Peter....
Some truth and some wishful thinking.

 

[Grailhunter]

Augustine, Calvin and Spurgeon were Gnostics. Spurgeon had a false "gospel."

Could you be more wrong....try it again from the top.

 

[Grailhunter]

Baptism does not save as the thief on the cross proves.

Who said the thief on the cross was saved?