Perpetual virginity of Mary!

[Renniks]

That's an asinine comparison.
Unless you're talking about "knowing" George in the Biblical sense (sex) - your argument is pointless . . .

So, If I said before being married that I do not "know" my future wife in the Biblical sense, would that mean I never intend or desire to know her that way? It's speaking in the present tense, that's the point!

 

[Renniks]

Your denial of what scripture actually says and does not say is clear, and scripture does not say Joseph and Mary had sex at any time.
Rev 22:11 - were you looking in a mirror when you thought of that?

"Not yet" implies there's going to be something happening in the future. As an engaged couple, I could say that we have not yet come together, which strongly implies we surely intend to when the time is right!

 

[101G]

@Renniks, you're correct.
we all have the keys to the Kingdom and everything else. why? because JESUS Christ have all the keys, and if we in him and he in us we have what he have by inheritance. Romans 8:17 "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

for christ have all the keys including, the keys, Revelation 1:18 "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death." (smile).

Peter as rest of any of humanity in flesh is this, Acts 10:25 "And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him."Acts 10:26 "But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man."

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[BreadOfLife]

If Mary automatically inherits the title "Ark of the Covenant" for the reason that she once bore our Lord Jesus Christ in her womb, then would it not logically follow that all Christians can rightly be given the same title, since our bodies are also God's dwelling place (1 Corinthians 3:16-17; 6:19-20)?

Neither the Lord Jesus, nor any of his followers (including Peter) ever considered Mary in that exalted way. Furthermore, there is NO hint in scripture that the righteous ever exalted Mary in any way above any other disciple.

"As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.” He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.” (Luke 11:27,28) Wow, Jesus sure missed a golden opportunity there to explain that his mother was to be exalted above all other women, huh? Guess he wasn't Catholic after all

Let's deal with these 2 GLARING errors of yours . . .

First of all - YOU say that there is "NO hint" in Scripture that anybody ever exalted Mary.
Crack open your Bible and turn to Luke 1 . . .

Luke 1:41-43
And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the baby leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, and she exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted to me that the MOTHER OF MY LORD should come to me?

"Nobody" ever exalted her, huh??
Just the HOLY SPIRIT speaking through Elizabeth . . .

As for the "golden opportunity" that YOU say Jesus missed - he didn't.
The woman in Luke 11 was praising Mary for having nursed Jesus. He, however, gave her credit for having heard the Word of God and OBEYED it - which is exactly what she did back in Luke 1 . . .
Luke 1:38
“Behold, I am the servant of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.”

Now THAT'S obedience . . .

 

[Mungo]

"Not yet" implies there's going to be something happening in the future. As an engaged couple, I could say that we have not yet come together, which strongly implies we surely intend to when the time is right!

"not yet"? where does scripture say that?

 

[101G]

Luke 1:41-43
And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the baby leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, and she exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted to me that the MOTHER OF MY LORD should come to me?

"Nobody" ever exalted her, huh??

are you that ignorant? not here but the FRUIT in her womb that was praised. my God how dense people are.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Mungo]

@Renniks, you're correct.
we all have the keys to the Kingdom and everything else. why? because JESUS Christ have all the keys, and if we in him and he in us we have what he have by inheritance. Romans 8:17 "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

for christ have all the keys including, the keys, Revelation 1:18 "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death." (smile).

Peter as rest of any of humanity in flesh is this, Acts 10:25 "And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him."Acts 10:26 "But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man."

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

So you think you are infallible?
WOW!

 

[101G]

So you think you are infallible?
WOW!

(smile).... You say...... lol.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[101G]

well while I'm at it, might as well address your, not Renniks, but your BOL, other ERROR, Luke 11:27 "And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked."Luke 11:28 "But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it."

well the Lord Jesus put her foot in her mouth also. our Lord corrected that ill advise blessing on a natural womb. listen, "Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it."

our Lord put an end to that nonesense.

Another successful sabotage operation.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[BreadOfLife]

Scripture, taken in context, nowhere declares that he was in authority over the other apostles, or over the church (having primacy). See Acts 15:1-23; Galatians 2:1-14; and 1 Peter 5:1-5. Nor is it ever taught in Scripture that the bishop of Rome, or any other bishop, was to have primacy over the church. Scripture does not even explicitly record Peter ever being in Rome. Rather there is only one reference in Scripture of Peter writing from “Babylon,” a name sometimes applied to Rome (1 Peter 5:13). Primarily upon this and the historical rise of the influence of the Bishop of Rome come the Roman Catholic Church’s teaching of the primacy of the bishop of Rome. However, Scripture shows that Peter’s authority was shared by the other apostles (Ephesians 2:19-20), and the “loosing and binding” authority attributed to him was likewise shared by the local churches, not just their church leaders (see Matthew 18:15-19; 1 Corinthians 5:1-13; 2 Corinthians 13:10; Titus 2:15; 3:10-11).

And yet you FAILED to address ANY of the FOURTEEN Scriptural points I gave you regarding Peter's primacy.

Good job . . .

 

[Mungo]

(smile).... You say...... lol.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

No, you claim to be infallible
But is your claim infallible?

 

[BreadOfLife]

So, If I said before being married that I do not "know" my future wife in the Biblical sense, would that mean I never intend or desire to know her that way? It's speaking in the present tense, that's the point!

No because you're taking it out of context.

Mary DIDN'T say, "I don't know Joseph." She said "I do not know man (I don't have sex)."

Mary knew where babies came from and HOW they were conceived - she was about to be married. She DIDN'T say, "How can this be? I've never had sex." That would be stupid because if she was intending to have sex - she would know EXACTLY how this would be.

She was puzzled because she couldn't understand HOW she could get pregnant if she was NOT intending to have sex.

 

[Grailhunter]

No it isn't a euphemism for having sex. It can be in our culture but not in Jewish culture.
We sometimes use "living together" as a euphemism for sex but it need not be.

In Jewish culture, unlike our own culture, marriage is in two stages.
The first is called kiddushin. The word "kiddushin" comes from the root Qof-Dalet-Shin, meaning "sanctified." It reflects the sanctity of the marital relation. However, the root word also connotes something that is set aside for a specific (sacred) purpose, and the ritual of kiddushin sets aside the woman to be the wife of a particular man and no other. (Judaism 101). At this point the two are legally married, hence in Mt 1:19 Joseph is descibed as her husband and decides to divorce Mary.

The second stage is called nusuin and this is when the husband brings the bride into his home. Today the two often take place one after the other but this in Jesus' time, and very often, during the interim period, the husband was busy preparing a home for her.

Something to ponder on.
The Church is described as the bride of Christ. In John 14 Jesus says to the gathered apostles, the Church, In my Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And when I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. (John 14:2-3 ).
The Church and Jesus have completed kiddushin and are awaiting nusuin which will happen later. We are waiting The Spirit and the Bride say, “Come.” (John 22:17).

During the time of Christ it was customary for the Jewish in-laws to fly into the local airport and pick-up the young couple in a Cadillac...preferably in a convertible, and take them to the Four Seasons where they would have a lavish wedding ceremony, presided over by a Catholic Priest. Afterward at the reception they could party with the band Alabama while they watched the Superbowl on a big screen TV. What is wrong with this statement? The same as yours. History, historical era, and timeline, you have to keep them straight.

Two of the most common mistakes in biblical understanding....

1. You cannot read the Bible like it is the latest edition of the local Sunday Paper.
2. You cannot superimpose your beliefs on the scriptures.

The terms you are using are not part of the biblical narrative. I understand the confusion because there was a wedding in the Gospels.

But the Hebrew language does not have a word for wed or wedding. Just like the Christians their wedding customs will develop long after the biblical era.

Hebrews "took" their wives....the union being the event that bound them.
Genesis 2:24 "For this cause a man shall leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and they will they shall become one flesh." The cleave and the one flesh is the finalization of the marriage. No mention of wedding or ceremony, no requirement.

No requirement in the New or Old Testaments for Jews or Christians....never was a requirement....the custom comes much later and it is modeled after Pagan weddings. Still today many parts of a normal wedding has Pagan customs. What does a balloon with a string on it look like?

There are two scriptures concerning Miriam and Joseph, one shortly after Joseph finds out that Miriam was impregnated by some one else and the other during their time in Jerusalem.

Luke 2:5 in order to register, along with Mary, who was engaged to Him, and was with child.

Matthew 1:24 And Joseph arose from his sleep and did as the angel of the Lord commanded, him and took her s his wife, and kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son, and he called His name Jesus.

How many problems do we have here? Number one they seem to conflict. One says that Joseph took her as his wife before they went to Jerusalem and one says that they were still engaged when they were in Jerusalem. Any possible explanation for this is speculation to a degree...so here it is...Since wedding ceremonies were not the custom, Joseph could announce publicly that they were married and stay off the controversy. And as the scripture indicates wait for her to have the baby to make it official....which means sex.

Now that would mean that Joseph would have to lie....for the pious pies, they are likely to take exception to Joseph lying, but that can of worms is already open...Miriam was impregnated by someone else while engaged to Joseph, and the scriptures say Christ was raised as Joseph's son. They are not telling people that the baby is the Son of God.

The scriptures certainly imply that Joseph was waiting for her to have the child before taking her as his wife. And if you understand Jewish law, custom, and even the storyline of the Jews, you would know that he was waiting to have sex with her to finalize the marriage. The alternative would be much worse. If he never had sex with her, than they were never married and just living together...literally, and Christ would be a completely illegitimate child.

Still, we do not have a video of their coupling or a body of witnesses and scriptures do not describe them having sex or not having sex...All we can go with is the narrative and the norm. Then again, the concept that Miriam could not be holy or blessed, or it would be wrong for her to deliver Christ normally or have sex with her husband or have children by him is completely dreamed up, man-made. Mostly do to the fact that the Church developed beliefs that women, sex and nudity were of the devil.

Because of that Miriam could not have sex, Christ could not be delivered normally, (could not touch the dirty, nasty and evil female genitalia) and Miriam had to remain a virgin forever. Which is not biblical, not logical, and goes against every biblical norm.

 

[Renniks]

Luke 1:41-43
And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the baby leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, and she exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted to me that the MOTHER OF MY LORD should come to me?

"Nobody" ever exalted her, huh??
Just the HOLY SPIRIT speaking through Elizabeth . . .

As for the "golden opportunity" that YOU say Jesus missed - he didn't.
The woman in Luke 11 was praising Mary for having nursed Jesus. He, however, gave her credit for having heard the Word of God and OBEYED it - which is exactly what she did back in Luke 1 . . .
Luke 1:38
“Behold, I am the servant of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word.”

Now THAT'S obedience . . .

Big difference between being exalted and basically worshiped and simply being commended for having faith. A whole slew of folks are commended for having faith in scripture. Of course, she was blessed to be chosen. Your religion turns this into something else entirely. Do we ask all the people in the faith chapter to bless us and pray for us? Why not? They were also commended for their obedience.

 

[Renniks]

"not yet"? where does scripture say that?

"But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus."

25"But he did not have sexual relations with her until her son was born. And Joseph named him Jesus."

25"and did not know her till she had brought forth her[j] firstborn Son. And he called His name Jesus."

25And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

But he did not have sexual relations with her until after she had given birth to her Son, the firstborn; and he called His name Jesus.

 

[Renniks]

She was puzzled because she couldn't understand HOW she could get pregnant if she was NOT intending to have sex.

Um, no. In fact, that's about the most ridiculous thing I've heard all week. She didn't know man, at that point in time. Duh!
It says nothing about her future intentions. She wasn't wondering how she would get pregnant in 10 years, but how she could be in that moment, seeing as she'd never had sexual relations with any man.

 

[Spurgeon's Girl]

@Spurgeon's Girl , sounds like you have a wise dad!

You and I have some things in common. Even though my college degree is not in education, I was a public school teacher. I retired when I had my kids and ended up home schooling them. (That's a long story.) I also worked on a master's degree with education as one of my areas, but my late husband and I moved out-of-state before I had a chance to finish it. I have regretted not getting a master's.

I believe that abortion is the worst form of child abuse--snuffing out the life of the innocent! My blood boils over this too. It seems that so many Christians are complacent about it. This grieves me and makes me mad. Sometimes, I have to hold my tongue. One verse that has helped me with this is James 1:20, which says, "The anger of man does not achieve the righteousness of God."

Yes, and misrepresenting God--who He is, what He's done for us! Leading people away from Jesus has got to be the worst thing a person can do to others. Jesus Christ is our hope! He is our life! Apart from Him, we can do nothing.

I taught 10 years in the public school. Third graders. One of the best times of my life. I'm a huge fan of homeschooling done right.

You might want to check with the college you were working on your Masters program. You might be able to finish with on-line classes.

Here is a quick video that completely explains the complacency. It has a Catholic source, but nevertheless it's accurate.

 

[Spurgeon's Girl]

Your denial of what scripture actually says and does not say is clear, and scripture does not say Joseph and Mary had sex at any time.
Rev 22:11 - were you looking in a mirror when you thought of that?

Red bolding mine.
Is this what Catholics do when they are losing an argument? There is a context to Revelation 22. And it's not meant to possibly insult another person.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I taught 10 years in the public school. Third graders. One of the best times of my life. I'm a huge fan of homeschooling done right.

You might want to check with the college you were working on your Masters program. You might be able to finish with on-line classes.

Here is a quick video that completely explains the complacency. It has a Catholic source, but nevertheless it's accurate.

Finishing the degree online probably wasn't an option because it was quite a few years ago, but thanks for the suggestion.

As far as home schooling, there are some great curricula and resources available these days. Some of the big companies/schools offer streaming services. I've used both A Beka and Bob Jones quite a bit. They both have their plusses and minuses....

Thanks for posting the video. I will watch it.

 

[amigo de christo]

first the church never burned anyone, she condemned heresy and heretics false doctrine and turned them over to the state to determine punishment as the Bible says rom 13:1-4
Where do you get authority to read for yourself and make your own covenant doctrine and faith???

We must be taught by Peter, the apostles, and their successors! Matt 28:19 Jn 21:17

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

exactly she did what the religious pharisees did to JESUS . Oh we cant put him to death , but we sure can deliver him over to one WHO WILL .
That is rome for ya too . They tried to play all innocent , yet they did to the true church what the pharisees did to JESUS .
With many a popes support . And they say the popes were the mouth piece for GOD . I dont think so .