Personal Revelation

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ScottA

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‘And it shall be in the last days,’ God says,
‘That I will pour forth of My Spirit on all q]">[q]mankind;
And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
And your young men shall see visions,
And your old men shall dream dreams;
18 Even on My bondslaves, both men and women,
I will in those days pour forth of My Spirit
And they shall prophesy.
19 ‘And I will grant wonders in the sky above
And signs on the earth below,
Blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke.
20 ‘The sun will be turned into darkness
And the moon into blood,

Before the great and glorious day of the Lord shall come.
21 ‘And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’
When did those verses happen to Israel? The prophecy has made to them.

The correct answer in general, is: at the cross...for we "were crucified" and "raised up" with Christ. "Were" (past tense), speaking of "those who are alive and remain" (after the cross).

As for Israel, they are "the dead in Christ" and died and were raised up with Him "the first who are the last."

But Paul also indicated that individually and for these times of the gentiles in which we now live, it is: "each in his own order."
 
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CoreIssue

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The correct answer in general, is: at the cross...for we "were crucified" and "raised up" with Christ. "Were" (past tense), speaking of "those who are alive and remain" (after the cross).

As for Israel, they are "the dead in Christ" and died and were raised up with Him "the first who are the last."

But Paul also indicated that individually and for these times of the gentiles in which we now live, itis: "each in his own order."
from her homeT.iYou said that prophecies of Joel have been fulfilled. I showed you are they have not always
The correct answer in general, is: at the cross...for we "were crucified" and "raised up" with Christ. "Were" (past tense), speaking of "those who are alive and remain" (after the cross).

As for Israel, they are "the dead in Christ" and died and were raised up with Him "the first who are the last."

But Paul also indicated that individually and for these times of the gentiles in which we now live, it is: "each in his own order."
You said Joel had already been fulfilled. I showed you they have not.

Your response; mumble jumble.

Typical of your kind.
 

Enoch111

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You said Joel had already been fulfilled. I showed you they have not.
Correct. Joel's was a multi-part prophecy, touching on Pentecost, as well as on the future Day of the LORD.

Many prophecies have this characteristic. They may speak of the first and second comings of Christ as though it were all one, yet we know that they are referring to two separate events, separated by thousands of years.
Here is an example:

FIRST COMING OF CHRIST (GRACE)
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord...

20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
(Luke 4:18-20)

SECOND COMING OF CHRIST (JUDGMENT)
1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn...
(Isa 61:1,2)

Had the Lord spoken out the full prophecy, judgment would have come upon Israel immediately. But the "day of vengeance of our God" is also "the day of the Lord" mentioned by Joel. A terrible period of time.
 

CoreIssue

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Correct. Joel's was a multi-part prophecy, touching on Pentecost, as well as on the future Day of the LORD.

Contrary to what you said, all the prophecies have not been fulfilled, which is the issue under discussion.

Nor does it change the fact Joel was not talking about Pentecost, but the latter rains.

 

Enoch111

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Contrary to what you said, all the prophecies have not been fulfilled, which is the issue under discussion.
I did not say all the prophecies have been fulfilled. Quite the opposite. But the prophecy regarding the outpouring of the Holy Spirit was fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost, and will also be fulfilled at the second coming of Christ.

Nor does it change the fact Joel was not talking about Pentecost, but the latter rains.
Joel was very definitely talking about Pentecost since Peter quoted him for precisely that reason. What Peter did not say (which was not necessary at the time) was that there was more future fulfillment to come out of Joel's prophecies.

He not only spoke about the latter rain but also about the day of the LORD.

PAST AS WELL AS FUTURE FULFILLMENT
And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; [PAST] and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. [FUTURE] (2:28,29)


FUTURE FULFILLMENT
Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come. (1:15)

Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, forit is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the landis as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them... (2:1-3)

The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?(2:10,11)

And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. (2:30,31)
 

ScottA

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from her homeT.iYou said that prophecies of Joel have been fulfilled. I showed you are they have not always

You said Joel had already been fulfilled. I showed you they have not.

Your response; mumble jumble.

Typical of your kind.
I gave you the scriptures.

Your's is the mumble jumble.
 
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Dave L

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That's just wrong Dave.

We have quoted the scriptures to you that clearly show God's spiritual revelations to NT believers...and you have refused to acknowledge them.
But if you cannot find your experience anywhere in scripture, I am not allowed to believe you had a genuinely biblical experience. I'm not saying it didn't happen, just that it is foreign to scripture.

Furthermore, you need to prove from scripture the spiritual gifts came in other ways beyond the two outpourings or through an apostle's hands. Unless you can, you are adding to scripture. There's more on the passing of the charismatic gifts that needs addressed before you can press your claims too. But this is enough for now.
 

ScottA

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But if you cannot find your experience anywhere in scripture, I am not allowed to believe you had a genuinely biblical experience. I'm not saying it didn't happen, just that it is foreign to scripture.
Where in scripture does it say you are "not allowed to believe" something that is not first written in the scriptures? Quote it? And also quote where it is in the scriptures before it was originally stated and revealed.

Meanwhile, while you are searching the scriptures for those quotes that are not actually in the scriptures and proving yourself to be hypocritical, let me (again) point out that the prophets of old were not in the scriptures when God spoke through them, not until after. And while a lot of what Jesus said can be found in the scriptures, some are only vague, and some things He said were not there at all until after He said them. Even He would not past your test. The same goes for the apostles.

The point is...that your claim that anything that is not written in the scriptures first is false, is not against me...it's against God. You are saying God is not allowed to be original. Which is just foolishness.
Furthermore, you need to prove from scripture the spiritual gifts came in other ways beyond the two outpourings or through an apostle's hands. Unless you can, you are adding to scripture. There's more on the passing of the charismatic gifts that needs addressed before you can press your claims too. But this is enough for now.
I don't need to prove anything - I'm telling you straight out.

I am not adding to scripture, I am repeating it, and "pressing on to the prize." But just as the prophets and even Jesus were not believed when doing the same thing - you are simply placing yourself in the same camp as those would-be "followers" who weren't actually following at all, nor did they have understanding. Which, ironically...is in the scriptures (repeatedly):

Isaiah 6:9
"And He said, “Go, and tell this people: ‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand; Keep on seeing, but do not perceive."

Matthew 13:14
"And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says: ‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, And seeing you will see and not perceive;"

Therefore, for this reason I say I am "repeating" the scriptures, that you might "keep on hearing" it.
 
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Dave L

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Where in scripture does it say you are "not allowed to believe" something that is not first written in the scriptures? Quote it? And also quote where it is in the scriptures before it was originally stated and revealed.

Meanwhile, while you are searching the scriptures for those quotes that are not actually in the scriptures and proving yourself to be hypocritical, let me (again) point out that the prophets of old were not in the scriptures when God spoke through them, not until after. And while a lot of what Jesus said can be found in the scriptures, some are only vague, and some things He said were not there at all until after He said them. Even He would not past your test. The same goes for the apostles.

The point is...that your claim that anything that is not written in the scriptures first is false, is not against me...it's against God. You are saying God is not allowed to be original. Which is just foolishness.
I don't need to prove anything - I'm telling you straight out.

I am not adding to scripture, I am repeating it, and "pressing on to the prize." But just as the prophets and even Jesus were not believed when doing the same thing - you are simply placing yourself in the same camp as those would-be "followers" who weren't actually following at all, nor did they have understanding. Which, ironically...is in the scriptures (repeatedly):

Isaiah 6:9
"And He said, “Go, and tell this people: ‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand; Keep on seeing, but do not perceive."

Matthew 13:14
"And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says: ‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, And seeing you will see and not perceive;"

Therefore, for this reason I say I am "repeating" the scriptures, that you might "keep on hearing" it.
If you provide extra biblical information about spiritual matters that I cannot verify with scripture, I cannot believe it. King Saul did this and ended up in the devil's camp. Faith comes from hearing the word, not from any other source. So what many believe today is pure fluff that will dissipate when the waves come crashing in. I can stand on scripture. But who can stand on the word of others unless they speak scripture?
 

CoreIssue

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New International Version
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Deuteronomy 13:1-3 New International Version (NIV)
Worshiping Other Gods
13 a]">[a]If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 New International Version (NIV)
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of Goda]">[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.



Matthew 7:15-23 New International Version (NIV)
True and False Prophets
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

True and False Disciples
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’


Matthew 7:15-23 New International Version (NIV)
True and False Prophets
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

True and False Disciples
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Every prophet in the bible built upon the prophets that came before. Everyone of them had an accompanying sign from God they should be believed.

The world is full of people claiming to be prophets that are not and are destructive.

So no one should just take the worst someone just tossing out new claims without being able to to give biblically acceptable reasoning to believe them.

Same with teachers.
 
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brakelite

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New International Version
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Deuteronomy 13:1-3 New International Version (NIV)
Worshiping Other Gods
13 a]">[a]If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 New International Version (NIV)
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of Goda]">[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.



Matthew 7:15-23 New International Version (NIV)
True and False Prophets
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

True and False Disciples
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’


Matthew 7:15-23 New International Version (NIV)
True and False Prophets
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

True and False Disciples
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Every prophet in the bible built upon the prophets that came before. Everyone of them had an accompanying sign from God they should be believed.

The world is full of people claiming to be prophets that are not and are destructive.

So no one should just take the worst someone just tossing out new claims without being able to to give biblically acceptable reasoning to believe them.

Same with teachers.
Sort of leaves us without any excuse if the real prophet speaks among us right?
 

CoreIssue

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Sort of leaves us without any excuse if the real prophet speaks among us right?

Indeed, if they pass all the Biblical demands.

If defining a prophet as one with revelation in addition to the bible, they are false prophets.

If defining a prophet as one bringing holy spirit guidance to an issue, then they should be fairly tested.
 
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ScottA

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If you provide extra biblical information about spiritual matters that I cannot verify with scripture, I cannot believe it. King Saul did this and ended up in the devil's camp. Faith comes from hearing the word, not from any other source. So what many believe today is pure fluff that will dissipate when the waves come crashing in. I can stand on scripture. But who can stand on the word of others unless they speak scripture?
You are not the judge of such matters, even for yourself.

Nonetheless, I did not give you "extra biblical information about scriptual matters", nor did I do as "Saul did", nor any "other source", only God. As I said, on the contrary, I did what the prophets of old did, what Jesus Himself did, and what the apostles did. And you are doing what God has foretold.

You are right about many offering up pure fluff, but scripture alone is comparable to standing on the law alone. You are in great danger of being left to that which cannot save. If you were of believing pre-Christ Israel (of the house of Israel), that would work...because Christ came to save them from the law. But since then and is true of the gentiles, there is not salvation for your law/scripture position without "entering in" when the Spirit comes. Standing on the scriptures alone during these times is not biblical.

I am not giving you "the words of others." I am sharing with you (warning you) of the rest of what scripture says about salvation for our time. But just as many wanted to go back to Egypt, many now want to go back to the law and the scriptures, just as Israel did and needed to be scolded and warned by Paul. Read of the "foolishness" of the Galatians. You are doing likewise.
 
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Dave L

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You are not the judge of such matters, even for yourself.

Nonetheless, I did not give you "extra biblical information about scriptual matters", nor did I do as "Saul did", nor any "other source", only God. As I said, on the contrary, I did what the prophets of old did, what Jesus Himself did, and what the apostles did. And you are doing what God has foretold.

You are right about many offering up pure fluff, but scripture alone is comparable to standing on the law alone. You are in great danger of being left to that which cannot save. If you were of believing pre-Christ Israel (of the house of Israel), that would work...because Christ came to save them from the law. But since then and is true of the gentiles, there is not salvation for your law/scripture position without "entering in" when the Spirit comes. Standing on the scriptures alone during these times is not biblical.

I am not giving you "the words of others." I am sharing with you (warning you) of the rest of what scripture says about salvation for our time. But just as many wanted to go back to Egypt, many now want to go back to the law and the scriptures, just as Israel did and needed to be scolded and warned by Paul. Read of the "foolishness" of the Galatians. You are doing likewise.
Faith comes from hearing the word. And much of what people believe today is not of faith, but of the flesh. And it will dissipate when exposed to the right conditions. So I make sure everything I settle in on has firm scriptural support. If what you say lines up with scripture, I believe it. If it doesn't I assume you are telling the truth but are confused about your experiences.
 
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CoreIssue

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You are not the judge of such matters, even for yourself.

Nonetheless, I did not give you "extra biblical information about scriptual matters", nor did I do as "Saul did", nor any "other source", only God. As I said, on the contrary, I did what the prophets of old did, what Jesus Himself did, and what the apostles did. And you are doing what God has foretold.

You are right about many offering up pure fluff, but scripture alone is comparable to standing on the law alone. You are in great danger of being left to that which cannot save. If you were of believing pre-Christ Israel (of the house of Israel), that would work...because Christ came to save them from the law. But since then and is true of the gentiles, there is not salvation for your law/scripture position without "entering in" when the Spirit comes. Standing on the scriptures alone during these times is not biblical.

I am not giving you "the words of others." I am sharing with you (warning you) of the rest of what scripture says about salvation for our time. But just as many wanted to go back to Egypt, many now want to go back to the law and the scriptures, just as Israel did and needed to be scolded and warned by Paul. Read of the "foolishness" of the Galatians. You are doing likewise.

The bible most assuredly commands us to judge and test such matters.
 

ScottA

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Faith comes from hearing the word. And much of what people believe today is not of faith, but of the flesh. And it will dissipate when exposed to the right conditions. So I make sure everything I settle in on has firm scriptural support. If what you say lines up with scripture, I believe it. If it doesn't I assume you are telling the truth but are confused about your experiences.
That is not exactly what you are doing, because you yourself are adding conditions that contradict the scriptures, by excluding the Spirit...and if you responded the same to the prophets of old, to Jesus, and to the apostles the same way, you would be doing exactly what Israel did and what God has predicted.

Should I not have warned you that you are repeating the errors of history, which themselves are written and available for your confirmation?
 
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Dave L

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That is not exactly what you are doing, because you yourself are adding conditions that contradict the scriptures, by excluding the Spirit...and if you responded the same to the prophets of old, to Jesus, and to the apostles the same way, you would be doing exactly what Israel did and what God has predicted.

Should I not have warned you that you are repeating the errors of history, which themselves are written and available for your confirmation?
Without the written word faith does not exist.
 

GodsGrace

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Have you experienced it?
Have you tested it?
Has it changed your life?
Personal Revelation.

Yes. It exists...I've experienced it and it worked.
But, as I've said many times, our PERSONAL REVELATION is for us along and not to be shared on any forum and probably not with any other person, unless it could be discussed in a general way.

God knows what will work for us individually.
This will not work for everyone.

I've stated this on a different thread, and I repeat...
the only revelation we're to use is in the N.T.
 

Episkopos

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Without the written word faith does not exist.


That's not true. It is the spoken word...the living word that causes faith. The rhema. What you should say is that without the written word there would be no misguided religious people who walk in their own power while thinking THAT is what faith is.

The truth is by and in the Spirit. Not outward observance (works).
 
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Dave L

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That's not true. It is the spoken word...the living word that causes faith. The rhema. What you should say is that without the written word there would be no misguided religious people who walk in their own power while thinking THAT is what faith is.

The truth is by and in the Spirit. Not outward observance (works).
Spoken directly from scripture.