Yes, Peter knew Jesus is God.
John 21:17 (NKJV)
17 And he said to Him, "Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.
John 21:17 (NKJV)
17 And he said to Him, "Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.
Peter identifies Jesus as our God and Savior
- Thread starter ChristisGod
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God is not a math problem. God is Unique there is nothing like Him nor is there anything to compare to God.
Exodus 15:11
Who among the gods is like You, O LORD? Who is like You--majestic in holiness, revered with praises, performing wonders?
Isaiah 40:18
With whom, then, will you compare God? To what image will you liken him?
Isaiah 40:25
"To whom will you compare Me, or who is My equal?" asks the Holy One.
Isaiah 46:5
To whom will you liken Me or count Me equal? To whom will you compare Me, that we should be alike?
This will be your final explanation on the Trinity. And every time you ask I will link you to this post.God is a Trinity of persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the same person as the Son; the Son is not the same person as the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is not the same person as Father. They are not three gods and not three beings. They are three distinct persons; yet, they are all the one God. Each has a will, can speak, can love, etc., and these are demonstrations of personhood. They are in absolute perfect harmony consisting of one substance. They are coeternal, coequal, and copowerful. If any one of the three were removed, there would be no God.
Jesus, the Son, is one person with two natures: Divine and Human. This is called the Hypostatic Union. The Holy Spirit is also divine in nature and is self-aware, the third person of the Trinity.
The word "person" is used to describe the three "Persons" of the Godhead because the word "person" is appropriate. A person is self-aware, can speak, love, hate, say "you," "yours," "me," "mine," etc. The three Persons in the Trinity demonstrate these qualities.
What is so hard to understand about God being Triune, a Trinity or Tri-Personal ?
The Father is not the Son. The Son is not the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is not the Father. God is a Trinity (Tri-Unity) of 3 Persons who are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Trinity is not three gods nor is the Trinity three beings. We call them "Persons" because each one of Them have a will, speak, teach, love, receive praise, prayer, share the same Glory, etc. These are all characteristics of person-hood. They are of one substance, nature, essence or Being. You cannot have the Father without the Son, the Son without the Father, The Son or Father without the Holy Spirit or you would not have God according to Scripture, you would have a false god or what is known as an idol.
hope this helps,
101G
Well-Known Member
Addressing the OP, the use of "AND"
scripture, James 1:27 "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."
question is this the same person yes or no?
God ... "and" .... Father.
or this, Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."
is this the same person? yes or No.
now one more use of "AND", Titus 2:13 "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;"
is this the same person? yes, or no.
REMEMBER, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
scripture, James 1:27 "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."
question is this the same person yes or no?
God ... "and" .... Father.
or this, Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."
is this the same person? yes or No.
now one more use of "AND", Titus 2:13 "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;"
is this the same person? yes, or no.
REMEMBER, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
Yes CL, I do not believe on any level that Jesus is God, or that there is any other being, entity, or person, outside of God the Father, who is the only almighty and supreme God, a single autonomous person and consciousness.
Elohim is plural by design, meaning, no matter in what context that it is used in, either a singular reference or plural, it has the same construct. Just like the words News, Sheep, Moose, etc in English. It has been used in the Bible many times to denote a singly entity.
John 1:1 is a literary device called antanaclasis. Sorry, i felt that this should be clear to the majority of readers - not the term, but the convention.
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You inconsistent and confused trinitarians made it a math problem, that you have yet to resolve.....
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I'm a biblical trinitarian and need nothing outside of the scriptures to prove that God is multi-personal. I agree with the creeds but do not need them to support God is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. There are plenty of passages in both Testaments declaring God is Plural beginning in Genesis and ending in Revelation.
hope this helps !!!
101G
Well-Known Member
Indoctrinated and pure unadulterated nonsense, that does nothing more but turn somewhat intelligent men into delirious fools!
...but, you accused me of being unable to answer your last post to me, which I did. So, now, I make that same accusation against you - complete incompetence!
I see nothing but ad hominem attacks from you void of Scripture and you NEVER engage scripture when its quoted and exegeted. This says much about you dnb.
Why don't you for once try debating the scriptures when they are posted and make a counter argument of the passage in question for a change ?
Do you think you can do that ?
Why don't you begin with the OP and 2 Peter 1:1 and 1:11 ?
hope this helps !!!
I am sorry about the perceived ad-hominem attacks (I do mean every word, though), I just can't emphasize enough from where this doctrine is derived (anti-christ), to the point that it even deprecates its proponents whenever they try to defend it eg: they can't even add 1+1+1 nor explain what a god-man is.
Ok, there seems to be a communication break-down here? Was not post #17 a rebuttal to your OP?
I shouldn't have to explain this, for the two, or more, different senses should be obviously clear? How can the Word be with God, and be God, in the same sense?
Apology accepted
No you made assumptions about the text but did not engage the text of 2 Peter 1:1 and 2 Peter 1:11. They are the exact same construction in the Greek and show that One Person, not 2 Persons are being described as Lord and Savior (1:11) and God and Savior( 1:1) in those passages.
So you would have to make an argument from those texts on why its not 1 person being described or what Jesus cannot be called God in the text and yet at the same time make the argument that He is still Lord and Savior but not God.
This is a great dilemma for the unitarian when being honest with the text.
Its a catch 22 no matter how you try and slice it.
hope this helps !!!
101G
Well-Known Member
First thanks for the reply, second, here's how, for your edification.
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
lets break this down. repeated, but in two different senses. the word was repeated, but not in two different senses
#1. THE "SAME" SENSE", Beginning, God.. Word.
"In the beginning was the Word". the same sense, Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." BINGO same Sense.
#2. THE "SAME" SENSE", "WITH".
" and the Word was with God ", the same sense, Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" what is the sense here, "ONE", meaning the SAME "ONE" PERSON,
as in FIRST and LAST, because God is the First and the Last the SAME person. quickly solve .... this, Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."
so who is the FIRST? as Deuteronomy 6:4 states, the "ONE" is the ordinal "First", definition time,
"ONE", H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.
[a numeral from H258]
KJV: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.
Root(s): H258
now the Last. 1 Corinthians 15:45 "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit."
"LAST", G2078 ἔσχατος eschatos (es'-cha-tos) adj.
farthest, final (of place or time).
[a superlative probably from G2192 (in the sense of contiguity)]
KJV: ends of, last, latter end, lowest, uttermost
Root(s): G2192
BINGO, God is the First and the Last. "ONE", and the same PERSON
Jesus one person is First and Last, supportive scripture of this ONE person "WITH" God, is God, lets see it, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." NOW LET'S MAKE SURE THAT THE FIRST THAT IS "WITH" THE LAST IS THE SAME PERSON. scripture. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." BINGO, there it is.
so "WITH" is the same sense, because he is ALSO, meaning the same one person. So John is correct, and you, DNB is incorrect in your use of John 1:1 as antanaclasis
#3. "and the Word was God.", must I... self explanatory.
so you are reproved of that error.
REMEMBER, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
101G
Well-Known Member
Well DNB asked, "How can the Word be with God, and be God, in the same sense?". well post #37 spells out how by the scriptures. for future reference please copy Post #37.
now if any have any futher question concering how God is "WITH", as ONE PERSON, just ask
REMEMBER, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
now if any have any futher question concering how God is "WITH", as ONE PERSON, just ask
REMEMBER, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Ok, like I said, if I were to take the expression '...our God and Saviour Jesus Christ...' on its own, and not taking context or tota-scriptura into account, then yes, we have a text that, in one sense*, appears to be affirming the deity of Jesus Christ. There is not a reasonable person in the world who can deny this. *again, many non-deities were called theos in the Bible.Apology accepted
No you made assumptions about the text but did not engage the text of 2 Peter 1:1 and 2 Peter 1:11. They are the exact same construction in the Greek and show that One Person, not 2 Persons are being described as Lord and Savior (1:11) and God and Savior( 1:1) in those passages.
So you would have to make an argument from those texts on why its not 1 person being described or what Jesus cannot be called God in the text and yet at the same time make the argument that He is still Lord and Savior but not God.
This is a great dilemma for the unitarian when being honest with the text.
Its a catch 22 no matter how you try and slice it.
hope this helps !!!
That's it then, nothing else that I said has any merit? We should not consider other factors when performing Biblical exegesis? Christ said '...eat my flesh, and drink my blood'. Is that it, is the doctrine of transubstantiation irrefutably true then? Jesus also said '...if thine eye offends thee, cut it out...'. There you have it, self-flagellation and ascetism must be incumbent upon all believers?
My point is, this type of expression, calling Jesus God, is so rare, and when juxtaposed against all those where Jesus either explicitly or implicitly states that the Father is greater than himself and he derives all power and authority from Him, that it cannot override the majority text, not to mention the incomprehensibility of the conclusion. Plus, Jesus is our god, for he is seated at the right-hand (right-hand man = 2nd in command) side of the supreme and almighty God, and has been bestowed all authority and power to rule and govern the universe.
Your hermeneutics is way too isolated and lacks a comprehensive approach.
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