Please Argue with me about Head Coverings

[DuckieLady]

This is not an argument. You asked for an argument. There it is. What is your rebuttal? And also, why do you want to argue the point?

I was honestly thinking I should fit into the modern world, but after this I thought about it more and now I feel differently.

We were called to be set apart and this world has turned so far from Gods design that I feel like this is a good way to stand up and be separate.

This is not at all prophetic and @Hidden In Him I'd be curious to know what you think - this is only a thought I have

But given the condition of the world and human sin, homosexuality, transgenderism, the elimination of pronouns- wouldn't it be interesting if the symbol of authority on her head became a sign to the angels like the sign of blood on the doors being set for when the angel of death passed through?

As in saying in a time of judgement, the angels would know, sort of "protect this one who is in obedience."

 

[DuckieLady]

I've never seen woman wearing head coverings unless their amish or middle eastern or african. Not sure where you got your head covering doctrine, I know it's in the bible. I don't really see it as a problem whether you do or don't.

The amish, hutterites, etc are descendants of the Anabaptist. I consider myself to be Anabaptist- I don't believe in infant baptism and I agree with everything they say.

 

[dev553344]

The amish, hutterites, etc are descendants of the Anabaptist. I consider myself to be Anabaptist- I don't believe in infant baptism and I agree with everything they say.

I don't know what I consider myself. I follow the Holy Spirit and the doctrine he teaches me so that is basically my true church. I just attend Catholic Mass so I'm not left out.

Well I hope you figure out what you feel OK about. That's what matters.

 

[DuckieLady]

The issue I bring up is no one knows what the head covering means. It's a long lost understanding. So no one knows what it means if you have it on, or whether you have decided to not have it on. That's why I say this only matters among believers who know about and submit to the teaching about the head covering. But at the end of the day, your conscience is what determines if you should wear it or not.

I can tell you exactly what it means. Once it is explained and heard, you can read it easily and understand it. Like if is easy to know.

Post #72
Please Argue with me about Head Coverings

Please Argue with me about Head Coverings

 

[DuckieLady]

I don't know what I consider myself. I follow the Holy Spirit and the doctrine he teaches me so that is basically my true church. I just attend Catholic Mass so I'm not left out.

Well I hope you figure out what you feel OK about. That's what matters.

Thanks Devin

 

[Wrangler]

I was honestly thinking I should fit into the modern world, but after this I thought about it more and now I feel differently.

I think you've mentioned this issue before and are convicted by it.

This idea of being convicted by the Holy Spirit pivots what is right or wrong, prohibited, required or allowed. A friend talked about the perils of drinking alcohol. Other friends said he is convicted by the Holy Spirit when he tried to justify his decision by Scripture.

I pointed out that John The Baptist was prohibited from drinking alcohol but our lord drank wine. If you are convicted to wear head coverings, I suggest you do so even if my wife is not so convicted.

 

[Cooper]

This is not an argument. You asked for an argument. There it is. What is your rebuttal? And also, why do you want to argue the point?

Paul was writing to the church at Corinth. Life there with all the prostitution was not much different from life today, and Paul thought it was important for Christians to separate themselves from the things of the world and to keep ourselves holy unto the Lord.

“Sin city” is how Corinth was known. The temple of Aphrodite, the goddess of love, built on the heights of the acropolis dominated the city. There were thousands of temple prostitutes, and Corinith was a by-word for riotous living, its excesses and sexual licence. There was even a word for it: to ‘Corinthianize.’

The temple prostitutes walked the streets with shaved heads, so if a woman had a full head of hair it was a glory to her. If a man walked to church with his bald wife, think how embarrassing it would be for both of them. A full head of hair was a glory not only to the lady herself, but it was a glory to her husband also, and like a badge of honour.

The other thing women did if they were married to a rich man was to show off their wealth by wearing their jewellery in their hair for all to see. This created a sense of inequality in the church, and as all are equal in the sight of God, a head covering solved the problem. The rich ladies looked the same as the poor, for all being are equal in the sight of God.

Regarding the men. Pagan priests wore a hat. It was a status symbol. So to separate themselves from all the pagan customs and to identify themselves as Christians, the men refrained from wearing hats.

So the women wore hats, and the men did not, separating themselves from the wickedness, the people, and the things of the world, so they may be a light and a witness to the rest of the world.

Fluffy Yellow Duck suggested we dress modestly, and that is a good suggestion.
.

 

[DuckieLady]

Paul was writing to the church at Corinth. Life there with all the prostitution was not much different from life today, and Paul thought it was important for Christians to separate themselves from the things of the world and to keep ourselves holy unto the Lord.

"Sin City" is how Corinth was known. It was dominated by the temple of Aphrodite, the goddess of love, built on the heights of the acropolis. There were thousands of temple prostitutes, and the city was a by-word for its excesses and sexual licence. There was even a word for it: to ‘Corinthianize.’

The temple prostitutes walked the streets with shaved heads, so if a woman had a full head of hair it was a glory to her. If a man walked to church with his bald headed wife, think how embarrassing it would be for both of them. A full head of hair was a glory not only to the lady herself, but it was a glory to her husband also and like a badge of honour.

The other thing women did if they were married to a rich man was to show off their wealth by wearing their jewellery in their hair for all to see. This created a sense of inequality in the church, and as all are equal in the sight of God a head covering solved the problem. The rich ladies looking the same as the poor, all being equal in the sight of God.

Something else, is that pagan priests wore a hat as a status symbol, so in order to separate themselves from pagan customs and in order to identify themselves as Christians, the men refrained from wearing hats.

So the women wore hats and the men didn’t, separating themselves from the wickedness, the people and the things of the world so they may be a light unto the world.
.

It is my belief that history is sometimes helpful, but in this case, that has nothing to do with what Paul was saying.

He said it is a symbol of authority- nothing to do with prostitution, it is about headship, but I agree that it could potentially lead us to be separate from the worlds works of iniquity even now, and I think now we need it most.

 

[GTW27]

Oh praise God I'm not alone in this!

Now I feel safer. Lol


That is a very good resource- the quotes on there by RC Sproul and Luther on the subject give me the most comfort.

Honestly, I had not told anyone this but I'll open up about it now. I felt like my prayers were being hindered in my mind, like I just could not think through the words until I covered.

I don't know why but when I did, it stopped.

Btw when I went to church covered, mine were this kind:

(Garlands of Grace)

Nobody cared when I went wearing a short pencil skirt the first few times, or tight midi dresses, because I didn't know what I was doing.

Surprisingly, the curiousity came after when I went covered with a full length skirt and THAT is when the Christian judgment comes. Not when you're dressed promiscuous.

Odd experience and a little ironic, but I'll tell you what, church grandmothers love me.

Blessings in Christ Jesus! For me a man, it is the opposite. I dress according to the people in the place where The Lord planted me in. In other words, I dress like a redneck. I wear a green cap most of the time. When I leave my house, and get into the car I pray as the car is warming up. And when I pray, I take off the hat out of reverence for Him, as He is Holy. The reason I pray in the car is to be clean(repented up) before having contact with the world. One can not walk in The Spirit with out being clean. As for you once again wearing a head covering, you will, as I can easily see you with one. Even before this picture. Sometimes, what is not fully understood now, will be then. And on another note, The Lord truly does give us the desires of our heart, but it comes at a time when we are fully ready to receive it, and at a time when we least expect it. The Lord is always working for our good.

 

[DuckieLady]

Blessings in Christ Jesus! For me a man, it is the opposite. I dress according to the people in the place where The Lord planted me in. In other words, I dress like a redneck. I wear a green cap most of the time. When I leave my house, and get into the car I pray as the car is warming up. And when I pray, I take off the hat out of reverence for Him, as He is Holy. The reason I pray in the car is to be clean(repented up) before having contact with the world. One can not walk in The Spirit with out being clean. As for you once again wearing a head covering, you will, as I can easily see you with one. Even before this picture. Sometimes, what is not fully understood now, will be then. And on another note, The Lord truly does give us the desires of our heart, but it comes at a time when we are fully ready to receive it, and at a time when we least expect it. The Lord is always working for our good.

Thanks @GTW27 you are right.


Just want to point out to eliminate confusion, I'm not the woman in the picture. Garlands of Grace makes coverings. I didn't want to post my own because I didn't want to come off as seeking attention. Lol

I think what you said is important and also light-filled. I could imagine rays of light in the car while I was reading. I know that's my imagination, I'm sure, but it is cool.

 

[marks]

and the last line "because of the angels" eliminates the possibility of it being for a culture or a time.

I'd disagree, it doesn't eliminate that.

I agree with the idea that this was a display of submission which had relevance to them at that time, in that culture. There has to be a reason why everyone would know it was improper for the woman's head to be uncovered, or why it would be shameful to be shorn.

This is an example of where we need to be demonstrably different from an ungodly culture. And why the angels are interested, I don't know, but I think it likely that they could be just as interested in our responses to the cultural clash as well as the clash itself.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The Angels in reference in my opinion is pertaining to the overseers of the church.

That's never occurred to me! I'll think about that!

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

But given the condition of the world and human sin, homosexuality, transgenderism, the elimination of pronouns- wouldn't it be interesting if the symbol of authority on her head became a sign to the angels like the sign of blood on the doors being set for when the angel of death passed through?

As in saying in a time of judgement, the angels would know, sort of "protect this one who is in obedience."

I'd say it certainly wouldn't hurt. There are certain things that cover over a multitude of sins, and walking in humility before the Lord in obedience to an ancient and godly custom is certainly one of them. We are indeed still called to a life of holiness, despite it almost being an ugly word in our time, and this was behind the teaching regarding holy women of God; they willingly submitted to God and man humbly, while maintaining their homes and leading holy lives before the Lord. They gave themselves to prayer, provided hospitality to strangers, and prophesied by the Spirit of God (and if married, with a head covering, to honor the structure of authority God had set in place).

The end result is that they will be given places of authority in eternity, for honoring authority in their earthly lives.

 

[TEXBOW]

IMHO cultural norms of the 1st century should not be considered doctrine. I think some things were carried over from the law to the age of grace.

 

[TLHKAJ]

I am not sure that is completely true, generally I would agree with what you have said. However if you were part of a church that insisted on wearing head covering, and it was part of the culture within that community of people, then surely you would be going against the authority within that body of believers. ( like the armistice for example ) There are cultures within cultures

I guess if you were of the same convictions, you'd be more likely to attend a particular church. For instance, I wouldn't attend where the leadership interpreted the Bible to suit their own opinions and preferences. So it's not an authority thing, but an issue of common convictions and standards.

 

[Cooper]

It is my belief that history is sometimes helpful, but in this case, that has nothing to do with what Paul was saying.

He said it is a symbol of authority- nothing to do with prostitution, it is about headship, but I agree that it could potentially lead us to be separate from the worlds works of iniquity even now, and I think now we need it most.

You were asking about 1 Corinthians 11. Sorry, I thought the subject was about hats.

The divine order whereby the head of every man is Christ, the head of every married woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God is another subject entirely. Women keeping silent in church in 1 Corinthians 14 is yet another subject.

Neither have anything to do with the wearing of hats in Corinth. Sorry.
.

 

[DuckieLady]

There are certain things that cover over a multitude of sins, and walking in humility before the Lord in obedience to an ancient and godly custom is certainly one of them

Remember that time God told Jeremiah to hide his underwear under a rock, or told Ezekiel to bake his bread weird? Like really weird

Or the part where John the Baptist had to eat bugs and dress in camel hair? Or Jesus told the blind man to put mud over his eyes.

None of these were good ideas in the eyes of men, but God had a purpose for his plan to be fulfilled in every one of them.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Remember that time God told Jeremiah to hide his underwear under a rock, or told Ezekiel to bake his bread weird? Like really weird

Or the part where John the Baptist had to eat bugs and dress in camel hair? Or Jesus told the blind man to put mud over his eyes.

None of these were good ideas in the eyes of men, but God had a purpose for his plan to be fulfilled in every one of them.

Well certainly, and all the more if you are talking about something you feel led to do personally. This goes back to what I was saying about wearing a wedding ring. It's merely symbolic, but there is value in "wearing" your theology if you will. Wearing a head covering if it is done with theological intent is akin to symbolically "becoming clothed with Christ," only more in the sense of becoming clothed in humility and submission to Him. Anyone who thinks that walking in such a mindset on a daily basis would somehow be detrimental to your spiritual life is nuts. And the good thing is, it has been a "habit" in your life before (sorry, couldn't resist), and would therefore be something you could maintain.

I once thought of wearing a monk's cloak (don't laugh, but I was actually shopping for a quality one), back when I was deeper into fasting and listening to a lot of Gregorian chant and choral symphonies and stuff. The purpose would have been similar; to "clothe" myself in the part of man fully dedicated to prayer and meditation on a daily basis. I still seek to do both on a daily basis, but I never adopted wearing a cloak, though I would not have seen anything wrong with it if I had. I just don't know that I would have kept it up. I can only imagine what my wife would have thought walking into a monastery after work every day, LoL.

 

[DuckieLady]

Well certainly, and all the more if you are talking about something you feel led to do personally. This goes back to what I was saying about wearing a wedding ring. It's merely symbolic, but there is value in "wearing" your theology if you will. Wearing a head covering if it is done with theological intent is akin to symbolically "becoming clothed with Christ," only more in the sense of becoming clothed in humility and submission to Him. Anyone who thinks that walking in such a mindset on a daily basis would somehow be detrimental to your spiritual life is nuts. And the good thing is, it has been a "habit" in your life before (sorry, couldn't resist), and would therefore be something you could maintain.

I once thought of wearing a monk's cloak (don't laugh, but I was actually shopping for a quality one), back when I was deeper into fasting and listening to a lot of Gregorian chant and choral symphonies and stuff. The purpose would have been similar; to "clothe" myself in the part of man fully dedicated to prayer and meditation on a daily basis. I still seek to do both on a daily basis, but I never adopted wearing a cloak, though I would not have seen anything wrong with it if I had. I just don't know that I would have kept it up. I can only imagine what my wife would have thought walking into a monastery after work every day, LoL.

1. You should, that would be cool
2. Lol @ habit
3. In personal life if it was a conviction based upon myself, I won't say that it is, but not to sound unsaintly, but it is the truth, I was not a modest woman, to say the least, so it would be a testimony of God's grace and full ability to humble and change a person according to His desire.

2 Corinthians 5:17-20

So whoever is in Christ is a new creation: the old things have passed away; behold, new things have come.

 

[Hidden In Him]

3. In personal life if it was a conviction based upon myself, I won't say that it is, but not to sound unsaintly, but it is the truth, I was not a modest woman, to say the least, so it would be a testimony of God's grace and full ability to humble and change a person according to His desire.

2 Corinthians 5:17-20

So whoever is in Christ is a new creation: the old things have passed away; behold, new things have come.

Excellent, and all the more reason why I think it is sound doctrine that sometimes God moves in very specific ways upon very specific people. The whole cookie-cutter approach to walking with God is fraught with problems. He treats us as individuals, with individual gifts and aptitudes, as well as weaknesses. This is again why I think the gifts of the Spirit are so vital. When He speaks, He pinpoints what the issue is with people. It is not a "one size fits all" approach.

As it is, I think you were 100% correct in saying it is something you have to find peace about yourself, and trust in your own relationship with Him.