Please Argue with me about Head Coverings

[quietthinker]

So…women should wear a cloth on their heads because…of what women did with fallen angels? So…although your sins are forgiven, you should cover your head because of what other women did long ago?
Do I have the reasoning right…?
So it’s so fallen angels will not see your beauty…?
I read they were being kept under chains, the angels who did that. So it’s so you will not tempt other angels to do that…?
I don’t know if I understand the thought right…?

The fallen angels having it on with humans doesn't add up for me at all. Firstly it means they must have genitals like humans. Does that mean they procreate amongst themselves? ...like baby angels? Nahhhh, I think the whole idea spins off the aberration that angels cohabited with humans to produce nephilim. The assumption is flawed and so are the further ideas built on that assumption.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The fallen angels having it on with humans doesn't add up for me at all. Firstly it means they must have genitals like humans. Does that mean they procreate amongst themselves? ...like baby angels? Nahhhh, I think the whole idea spins off the aberration that angels cohabited with humans to produce nephilim. The assumption is flawed and so are the further ideas built on that assumption.

For all I know it wasn’t sex. But the women had some kind of relation with them that produced nephilim. At least from what I read.

Men have figured out a way to make a virgin give birth and I think angels certainly know more than men.

 

[dev553344]

The fallen angels having it on with humans doesn't add up for me at all. Firstly it means they must have genitals like humans. Does that mean they procreate amongst themselves? ...like baby angels? Nahhhh, I think the whole idea spins off the aberration that angels cohabited with humans to produce nephilim. The assumption is flawed and so are the further ideas built on that assumption.

When people go off on that tangent with giants and other mythical creatures I just think... what and how did you get that idea? I see it's floating around on the internet though and a big selling point for some people. I think they're trying to sell something though.

 

[Enoch111]

The assumption is flawed and so are the further ideas built on that assumption.

And yet both Peter and Jude speak of these angels which sinned -- going after "strange flesh" -- and are now imprisoned in Tartarus. Also, when angels appeared to people they appeared as men. Which means that they had the reproductive organs of men.

 

[dev553344]

And yet both Peter and Jude speak of these angels which sinned -- going after "strange flesh" -- and are now imprisoned in Tartarus. Also, when angels appeared to people they appeared as men. Which means that they had the reproductive organs of men.

Where in the bible does it say angels which sinned going after strange flesh? I would like to review that scripture passage.

 

[quietthinker]

For all I know it wasn’t sex. But the women had some kind of relation with them that produced nephilim. At least from what I read.

Men have figured out a way to make a virgin give birth and I think angels certainly know more than men.

What men have figured out still involves the egg and the sperm meeting up. Apart from the basic mechanics the principle is the same.
they would still have to have reproductive capacity. I recall Jesus saying after being challenged by the Pharisee's, about seven brothers who successively married the same women when a brother died....whose wife she would be in the resurrection. He replied they misunderstood because they would be like the angels. I take that to mean they would not be in a sexual relationship or reproductive capacity....neuter if you like.

I also wonder if only humans have the male/female arrangement (made in the image of God) because no doubt there are also other created intelligences but do they have reproductive capacity?
We know of Seraphim and Cherubim and the four living creatures around the throne of God Revelation speaks about and describes. What else is out there in Gods vast universe will be something for us to discover in the next age where limitations of intellect, of mobility and of mortality no longer exist.

 

[marks]

Where in the bible does it say angels which sinned going after strange flesh? I would like to review that scripture passage.

Jude, "strange" translated from heteros, meaning, of a different kind.

Jude 1:6-7 KJV
6) And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

"in like manner". Both of them going after a different kind of flesh.

1 Corinthians 15:39-40 KJV
39) All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40) There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

Left their own habitation, left their oiketerion, used one other time,

2 Corinthians 5:1-3 KJV
1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2) For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3) If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

Certain angels put left their oiketerion, celetial 'house', and went after a different kind of flesh, the daughters of men.

And in the same way, the men of Sodom wanted the flesh of the angels.

Much love!

Edit to add . . . I just realized the thread this was in, like, wow! Sorry if this is a hijack!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

He replied they misunderstood because they would be like the angels. I take that to mean they would not be in a sexual relationship or reproductive capacity....neuter if you like.

Yes. Except some angels left their…proper habitation, estate…
Jude 1:6, KJV: "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

 

[quietthinker]

Which means that they had the reproductive organs of men.

Were they circumcised or uncircumcised?.....nahhhhh, I doubt this assumption Enoch.

We assume too much and are lead by these assumptions to our hurt.
We could also asked re these angels, did they have beards and were they clipped or unclipped....and where they wearing sandals made of leather (dead things)

I think wisdom says, be aware of your own unfounded assumptions (wild guesses)

 

[quietthinker]

Yes. Except some angels left their…proper habitation, estate…
Jude 1:6, KJV: "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

Their first estate was being in harmony with God. They left that 'habitation' and now live out of harmony with God ie, they are now in opposition.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I guess we will find out for sure one day.

 

[quietthinker]

I guess we will find out for sure one day.

I think that's a certainty. I also think what we do not know about is best being careful how it is thought about. It is too easy to build with straw and on sand only to have the whole structure tumble when the testing time comes. I equate the tumbling with much anguish and trauma.

 

[quietthinker]

And in the same way, the men of Sodom wanted the flesh of the angels.

The men of Sodom didn't know they were angels.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I think that's a certainty. I also think what we do not know about is best being careful how it is thought about. It is too easy to build with straw and on sand only to have the whole structure tumble when the testing time comes. I equate the tumbling with much anguish and trauma.

Not sure that would bring anguish and trauma to find what you suspected on that part was wrong…

 

[dev553344]

Jude, "strange" translated from heteros, meaning, of a different kind.

Jude 1:6-7 KJV
6) And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

"in like manner". Both of them going after a different kind of flesh.

1 Corinthians 15:39-40 KJV
39) All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40) There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

Left their own habitation, left their oiketerion, used one other time,

2 Corinthians 5:1-3 KJV
1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2) For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3) If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

Certain angels put left their oiketerion, celetial 'house', and went after a different kind of flesh, the daughters of men.

And in the same way, the men of Sodom wanted the flesh of the angels.

Much love!

Edit to add . . . I just realized the thread this was in, like, wow! Sorry if this is a hijack!

I still didn't see what Enoch was stating.

 

[quietthinker]

Not sure that would bring anguish and trauma to find what you suspected on that part was wrong…

This is how I see it sbg, we are loved and redeemed not because we have our theology right but quiet simply because we are loved.
Having our understanding of God right opens the door to this knowledge and we build wisely the which gives vision and enables us to love him in return. If some of the building materials are found to be less than best, the pain caused will be the result of realising our stubbornness.

The other option is to tick off a check list, a theology that suits our fancy of what we imagine would please God and therefore have him obligated (in our thinking) to save us. (haven't we done all these wonderful things in your name) This later view does nothing to generate love in one's heart towards him....it is the world of the religious....in truth it is sterile emotionally Godwards and our fellow man. Being right becomes the motivation. The motivation is not because ones stoney heart has been melted.
In this scenario, at the end of time when it is finally realised that one has backed ones own imagination of God, it is akin to building on sand where the whole structure collapses when sufficiently adverse forces are manifest.

 

[Brakelite]

Warning: I spent years studying this.

Please Argue with me about Head Coverings
Absolutely not.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Here is the deal.

I stumbled on old pictures and felt guilty for giving up my covering. Honestly I quit out of pride and I was afraid I wouldn't be ever seen as marriage potential because of it. There, I said it.

And I can't change my mind and I have convictions, and every argument that I know of I have the answer to already, so I need you guys to argue with me and see if someone can change my mind.

It will take me a few hours to get back but I'll contest any responses- unless someone has one I can't deny.

Warning: I spent years studying this.

A woman's hair is part of her glory/ beauty. Since man is God's glory and a woman is "man's glory", we need women not to be a snare for men ... (too attractive as to distract men) during what is supposed to be a congregation with God, a spiritual experience.
It is true. I used to attend a church that had no dress code. I could go with shorts and a T-shirt and felt comfortable about it. My thoughts at the time (a mere prideful justification) was that God does'nt care what you dress like, He looks at your heart. That's true in one sense. However, I did get distracted looking/lusting at gorgeous women -- not just beautiful, flowing hair, but legs, tight jeans ... hello.
Just a temporary distraction though I did get a handle on it and ignored them. We are suppose to ignore the "glory of man".
" But some womem you know come decked out to put in a show.
So there it is, a snare, a distraction that takes a man's mind off of what he is supposed to he doing, worshipping, communing with and honoring God.
It is an act of humility and respect for God AND consideration for man's utter weaknesses for a woman to cover her glory/beauty.
Still, I can look at her beautiful face. I can imagine Miss America or any gorgeous woman coming in to church, wearing a long dress to her ankles, covering up her head and sitting next to me. OMG, I don't think I would very spiritual that day - woe is me.

 

[Cooper]

And yet both Peter and Jude speak of these angels which sinned -- going after "strange flesh" -- and are now imprisoned in Tartarus. Also, when angels appeared to people they appeared as men. Which means that they had the reproductive organs of men.

Angels are God's messengers/workers and although we think of them as heavenly beings, God appoints certain men to be angels. We see this in the passage in Corinthians about the hierarchy in the church, whereby Jesus, a man, is the head of the church, followed by the angels. These are God's appointed messengers like the apostle Paul and the other apostles. Under them is the husband who has attended Synagogue school. The husband knew the language of the synagogue the same as some churches use Latin, and because their wives only knew the language of the marketplace i.e. Koine Greek, hence the chattering, the men were told to instruct their wife at home and then mother would teach the children.

All I am saying after all of that, is that teachers and pastors were angels and so also any man who was used by God.
.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

This is how I see it sbg, we are loved and redeemed not because we have our theology right but quiet simply because we are loved.
Having our understanding of God right opens the door to this knowledge and we build wisely the which gives vision and enables us to love him in return. If some of the building materials are found to be less than best, the pain caused will be the result of realising our stubbornness.

The other option is to tick off a check list, a theology that suits our fancy of what we imagine would please God and therefore have him obligated (in our thinking) to save us. (haven't we done all these wonderful things in your name) This later view does nothing to generate love in one's heart towards him....it is the world of the religious....in truth it is sterile emotionally Godwards and our fellow man. Being right becomes the motivation. The motivation is not because ones stoney heart has been melted.
In this scenario, at the end of time when it is finally realised that one has backed ones own imagination of God, it is akin to building on sand where the whole structure collapses when sufficiently adverse forces are manifest.

I agree. I just don’t think nephilim are one of those things that are things. If you know what I mean.