Please explain this.

[marks]

A compromise position is that the actual wording is divinely-inspired, in the original autographs. Any translator will tell you that translators must make a lot of decisions while translating from the original language to another.

Agreed. And not just the translation, but differences in the manuscripts create confusion. But I do believe God is able to speak to us just the same, and in ways we can factually know.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Strangely enough...reason...has a bad reputation in Christianity....that goes back to people wanting you to believe, what they tell you, and you not think about it. When you are reading the scriptures and you get that God feeling...that is good....but know that there are people getting that same feeling about the same scripture and get a different meaning out it. And that maybe good or bad....a special message from God thing. Sometimes you have to go looking. Christ talked about it...seek and you will find.....if your serious, then you literally have to become a miner for the truth.

"Come, let us reason together, you and I . . ."

I think the main thing is to not read the Bible primarily to learn doctrine, though that is completely valid. I think the main reason to read the Bible is to know God, and through knowing Him, become more like Him.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Almost liked your post. But, the above simply isn't true.

It is refuted by the following:

Psa 12:6, The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.



I did, page 12, post #33 (When is a christian NOT a Christian?).

God is able to preserve His Word for me.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I haven't been in this conversation....but may I say - "BY THE WITNESS OF THE SPIRIT".

It is not just a book of rules and authority. It is My Masters Voice when inspired to me.
It is like God jumps off the page and speaks to my heart. A living book.

The authority comes via the anointing as He speaks .
A friend of mine many years ago was in prison. He read the bible through three times because of boredom . It did nothing for him, it has no meaning, no connection, no 'authority' for him.

It is the heart of God to us, when He moves upon the black print and it comes alive.
As I see it, the authority is by the Spirit word.

It is a translation , it was writing by godly men who wrote down what God was saying to them .
They did not have a robotic pen.

As for someone believing that ever verse and every chapter was inspired!! Much makes much more sense when running the end of a chapter into the next , and then the lights come on re context.

Thanks.

While I agree essentially with what you are saying here, just the same, what happens when I believe this verse means this, and you believe the same verse means the opposite, and we both believe we have the Holy Spirit teaching us? Does the Holy Spirit tell one person that one thing is true, then tell another that the opposite is true?

Is truth relative? Can there be conflicting truths?

I would so no there are not.

So when the spirit in you testifies differently from the spirit in me, how can we learn the truth?

Much love!

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

I haven't been in this conversation....but may I say - "BY THE WITNESS OF THE SPIRIT".

It is not just a book of rules and authority. It is My Masters Voice when inspired to me.
It is like God jumps off the page and speaks to my heart. A living book.

The authority comes via the anointing as He speaks .
A friend of mine many years ago was in prison. He read the bible through three times because of boredom . It did nothing for him, it has no meaning, no connection, no 'authority' for him.

It is the heart of God to us, when He moves upon the black print and it comes alive.
As I see it, the authority is by the Spirit word.

It is a translation , it was writing by godly men who wrote down what God was saying to them .
They did not have a robotic pen.

As for someone believing that ever verse and every chapter was inspired!! Much makes much more sense when running the end of a chapter into the next , and then the lights come on re context.

Thanks.

I believe that we must have the indwelling Holy Spirit to guide our understanding of Scripture. Before I was born-again, the Bible was just words to me.

 

[justbyfaith]

There are a lot of good translations out there, but none are perfect.

At least one of them would have to be perfect.

Psa 12:6, The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

Once purified seven times, no more purifying is needed...the translation that has been purified seven times will be the standard.

A compromise position is that the actual wording is divinely-inspired, in the original autographs.

The only problem with this is, the original autographs have been lost to us.

So by this premise, we cannot even know what is the unadulterated message of the whole counsel of God concerning salvation; unless it is possible that the Lord could have, in sovereignty, preserved His word in the process of giving us the kjv.

It is not only possible; it is what happened.

Rev 19:6, And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

1Jo 4:8, He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1Jo 4:16, And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

1Co 12:3, Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Because God is love and is also the Omnipotently sovereign Lord of everything, He is going to preserve His unadulterated message in at least one translation per language that the Bible is translated into.

And He would also, in the case of counterfeit translations popping up, ordain that some of His people would fight the good fight of defending the translation that He has authorized and exposing the counterfeits for what they are.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

God is able to preserve His Word for me.

Much love!

Yes, I think that is an important point. I believe that God is entirely able to preserve the essence of His word and that He has. It is an item of faith.

 

[justbyfaith]

While I agree essentially with what you are saying here, just the same, what happens when I believe this verse means this, and you believe the same verse means the opposite, and we both believe we have the Holy Spirit teaching us? Does the Holy Spirit tell one person that one thing is true, then tell another that the opposite is true?

Is truth relative? Can there be conflicting truths?

I would so no there are not.

So when the spirit in you testifies differently from the spirit in me, how can we learn the truth?

Much love!

One would have to consider that the Holy Spirit hasn't spoken to one or both parties.

I would gather that the person with the most convicting message should prevail. Because it is the Holy Spirit's job to convict of sin and righteousness and judgment; and therefore if the person on one side of the issue finds themselves convicted and the other one doesn't, chances are that the Holy Spirit is doing the convicting and wants the person who is being convicted to change their mind.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

While I agree essentially with what you are saying here, just the same, what happens when I believe this verse means this, and you believe the same verse means the opposite, and we both believe we have the Holy Spirit teaching us? Does the Holy Spirit tell one person that one thing is true, then tell another that the opposite is true?

Is truth relative? Can there be conflicting truths?

I would so no there are not.

So when the spirit in you testifies differently from the spirit in me, how can we learn the truth?

Much love!

I think the Church, the Bride of Christ has always agreed on basic doctrine. The fine points of doctrine are often what Christians argue about.

 

[GodsGrace]

Doesn't the Bible says something about women being the persecutors of men?

I think Gloria Steinem began this sport.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Hi brakelite,

I will be staunchly against this view.

I believe every word and every letter was put down exactly like God wanted.

And on a practical note . . . if you are correct, then where is it's Authority?

Much love!

I would agree with you.

In 1 Corinthians 2:11 Paul's point is that you do not know what is in my mind unless I tell you. I do not know what is in your mind unless you tell me. Neither you nor I know what is in God's mind unless He tells us. If the Apostles were given thoughts from the Holy Spirit and then allowed to give their own commentary, opinions on those thoughts then we would not know the things in God's mind but the thoughts of the Apostles' minds.

Yet God did tell us what is in His mind by choosing certain "spiritual men" (as the Apostles) and miraculously endowed them with the ability to receive revelations from the Holy Spirit. Paul says of inspired men, (as the Apostles) in 1 Corinthians 2:13 "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual." The Holy Spirit gave the inspired Apostles "words". The Holy Spirit did not give the Apostles ideas or concepts which then the Apostles could expand on themselves using their own opinions. The Holy Spirit 'teacheth' the Apostles using words...they were given thoughts (spiritual things) through words (spiritual words). Ideas, thoughts had to be conveyed by words.

In Matthew 10:19-20 God promised the Apostles the Comforter and that the Comforter would tell them what words to speak "But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you."

Therefore any errors found intranslations are not due to the 'words' given to the Apostles by inspiration but due to man's error in translating those inspired words.

 

[justbyfaith]

I think the main thing is to not read the Bible primarily to learn doctrine,

Now I know that you said learning doctrine is completely valid; but I still want to point out that it is important that we read the Bible in order to discern what is sound doctrine. For without it, we may end up not being saved:

1Ti 4:16, Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Mat 7:14, Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

[justbyfaith]

I think the Church, the Bride of Christ has always agreed on basic doctrine. The fine points of doctrine are often what Christians argue about.

Until we come to unity in the non-essentials as well as the essentials, there will always be division.

Non-essentials are more important than one might think, see Luke 16:10...

Luk 16:10, He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.

 

[justbyfaith]

OK,
My response was to question whether Paul meant that he had sinned greater than any other, or if he meant that has currently sinning greater than others.

My answer is that I think he meant the former, not the latter.

It seems you think he meant the latter.

OK.

I think that Paul is exhorting us all to take on an attitude of self-abasement.

 

[marks]

Yes, I think that is an important point. I believe that God is entirely able to preserve the essence of His word and that He has. It is an item of faith.

If we don't believe that, then we have to put ourselves in the position of deciding what does and what doesn't belong as a part of God's True Word. Hard to be submitted to something if we think parts aren't true.

Much love!

 

[marks]

One would have to consider that the Holy Spirit hasn't spoken to one or both parties.

I would gather that the person with the most convicting message should prevail. Because it is the Holy Spirit's job to convict of sin and righteousness and judgment; and therefore if the person on one side of the issue finds themselves convicted and the other one doesn't, chances are that the Holy Spirit is doing the convicting and wants the person who is being convicted to change their mind.

And how do we decide which is more convincing? What when we both feel the same way?

Much love!

 

[marks]

I think that Paul is exhorting us all to take on an attitude of self-abasement.

Are we better off pretending we are terrible sinners, even though we've been forgiven and reborn?

I don't think so.

For me, freedom comes in the truth that I have been set free from sin, though my sins have been terrible!

Much love!

 

[marks]

I think the Church, the Bride of Christ has always agreed on basic doctrine. The fine points of doctrine are often what Christians argue about.

Hi LC,

And that's how we can have a (for the most part, with judicious use of Ignore) happy family here that agrees on salvation in Jesus, and sometimes not much else.

Much Love!

 

[marks]

If the Apostles were given thoughts from the Holy Spirit and then allowed to give their own commentary, opinions on those thoughts then we would not know the things in God's mind but the thoughts of the Apostles' minds.

Very good point.

Peter wrote that the prophets did not come up with this stuff according to their own understandings, but holy men of God wrote as the Spirit moved them.

"Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual."

Excellent observation!

In Matthew 10:19-20 God promised the Apostles the Comforter and that the Comforter would tell them what words to speak "But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you."

Yes, we're on the same page!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Now I know that you said learning doctrine is completely valid; but I still want to point out that it is important that we read the Bible in order to discern what is sound doctrine. For without it, we may end up not being saved:

1Ti 4:16, Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Mat 7:14, Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Of course, though I speak to the child of God.

Much love!